NFL

@mariner4life said in NFL Season 2020/21:

on the QB thing, i have a huge amount of sympathy for organisations with regards to QBs and their contracts. It's a QB league, you cannot win without a good one. Shit, even the SB won by the Broncos based on our defense, we still needed a first ballot hall of famer under centre to run the game.

Look at this weekend, Brady and Brees are on now, Rogers won yesterday. Mahomes won this morning. Allen might be the MVP. You need a great QB to win.

If a guy gets you to a Superbowl (or in one case, wins one) then you pay him, or someone else will, because he looks like the guy. It's a risk, but you have no other choice. Going cheap is a bigger risk, because i reckon lightening needs to strike for a "solid" QB to win you a SB.

The counter argument is that getting to a Super Bowl doesn't prove you are good enough to win a Super Bowl. Goff, Jimmy G, heck Rex Grossman made a Super Bowl as QB.

Unless you are an elite QB then all you are doing as an organisation is paying a huge part of your salary cap for a QB who can't win you a Super Bowl.

The Chiefs have shown the way - they had Alex Smith - a QB good enough to get you deep into the playoffs but not good enough to win you a Super Bowl - so they traded up in the first round to get a QB they thought could take them to the next level (and a lot cheaper than Alex Smith) and they were right.

If you are going to have a QB that you have to carry as a team anyway - you might as well go with someone on their rookie deal cos they are a hell of a lot cheaper.

@KiwiMurph said in NFL Season 2020/21:

@mariner4life said in NFL Season 2020/21:

on the QB thing, i have a huge amount of sympathy for organisations with regards to QBs and their contracts. It's a QB league, you cannot win without a good one. Shit, even the SB won by the Broncos based on our defense, we still needed a first ballot hall of famer under centre to run the game.

Look at this weekend, Brady and Brees are on now, Rogers won yesterday. Mahomes won this morning. Allen might be the MVP. You need a great QB to win.

If a guy gets you to a Superbowl (or in one case, wins one) then you pay him, or someone else will, because he looks like the guy. It's a risk, but you have no other choice. Going cheap is a bigger risk, because i reckon lightening needs to strike for a "solid" QB to win you a SB.

The counter argument is that getting to a Super Bowl doesn't prove you are good enough to win a Super Bowl. Goff, Jimmy G, heck Rex Grossman made a Super Bowl as QB.

Unless you are an elite QB then all you are doing as an organisation is paying a huge part of your salary cap for a QB who can't win you a Super Bowl.

The Chiefs have shown the way - they had Alex Smith - a QB good enough to get you deep into the playoffs but not good enough to win you a Super Bowl - so they traded up in the first round to get a QB they thought could take them to the next level (and a lot cheaper than Alex Smith) and they were right.

If you are going to have a QB that you have to carry as a team anyway - you might as well go with someone on their rookie deal cos they are a hell of a lot cheaper.

the counter-counter argument is the sheer number of "QBs who can take you to the next level" that come out of college and do fuck all. If Mahomes went the way of a large number of other great college QBs then they are in no mans land, again.

The Eagles are the best illustration. Wenz looks like an MVP, gets hurt, and his replacement comes in and wins a fucking Superbowl. You gotta pick one, because teams want both, so they pick Wentz. And you gotta hope you picked right, because you're tying yourself to him.

Turns out both were wrong, but there is no way you could know that.

@mariner4life said in NFL Season 2020/21:

@KiwiMurph said in NFL Season 2020/21:

@mariner4life said in NFL Season 2020/21:

on the QB thing, i have a huge amount of sympathy for organisations with regards to QBs and their contracts. It's a QB league, you cannot win without a good one. Shit, even the SB won by the Broncos based on our defense, we still needed a first ballot hall of famer under centre to run the game.

Look at this weekend, Brady and Brees are on now, Rogers won yesterday. Mahomes won this morning. Allen might be the MVP. You need a great QB to win.

If a guy gets you to a Superbowl (or in one case, wins one) then you pay him, or someone else will, because he looks like the guy. It's a risk, but you have no other choice. Going cheap is a bigger risk, because i reckon lightening needs to strike for a "solid" QB to win you a SB.

The counter argument is that getting to a Super Bowl doesn't prove you are good enough to win a Super Bowl. Goff, Jimmy G, heck Rex Grossman made a Super Bowl as QB.

Unless you are an elite QB then all you are doing as an organisation is paying a huge part of your salary cap for a QB who can't win you a Super Bowl.

The Chiefs have shown the way - they had Alex Smith - a QB good enough to get you deep into the playoffs but not good enough to win you a Super Bowl - so they traded up in the first round to get a QB they thought could take them to the next level (and a lot cheaper than Alex Smith) and they were right.

If you are going to have a QB that you have to carry as a team anyway - you might as well go with someone on their rookie deal cos they are a hell of a lot cheaper.

the counter-counter argument is the sheer number of "QBs who can take you to the next level" that come out of college and do fuck all. If Mahomes went the way of a large number of other great college QBs then they are in no mans land, again.

The Eagles are the best illustration. Wenz looks like an MVP, gets hurt, and his replacement comes in and wins a fucking Superbowl. You gotta pick one, because teams want both, so they pick Wentz. And you gotta hope you picked right, because you're tying yourself to him.

Turns out both were wrong, but there is no way you could know that.

To me that's a different scenario though - Wentz flashed enough where you could understand why the Eagles signed him. As you say Wentz was playing an MVP level.

As you say they were forced into making a decision.

My issue is with guys like Goff who never showed that level - heck he got to the Super Bowl and put up a whopping 3 points in that game.

They weren't forced into signing Goff when they did.

After that Super Bowl, after Goff's 3rd year (of a 5 year rookie deal) they signed him to a 4 year extension that at that point in time had the most guaranteed money of any contract in NFL history ($110 mil). He still had 2 years to run on his rookie deal - they rushed into signing him to huge money when they didn't have to and are now stuck.

look i hear you. There were enough questions around Goff his whole career that his contract looked out of whack. I guess i just have a level of sympathy that after a guy gets you to the Superbowl, cutting him, while alpha as fuck, is an enormous risk. That contract was probably a bigger risk.

But it happens so often that there has to be some other underlying reason for it.

this is a really good game by the way. Exactly as you would expect.

@mariner4life Brady certainly looks to have more left in his arm than Brees.

@KiwiMurph said in NFL Season 2020/21:

@mariner4life Brady certainly looks to have more left in his arm than Brees.

astounding isn't it?

Though i've noticed a couple of times Brady can't throw 2 "long" passes in a row. He's still elite at finding open guys though.

@mariner4life said in NFL Season 2020/21:

@KiwiMurph said in NFL Season 2020/21:

@mariner4life Brady certainly looks to have more left in his arm than Brees.

astounding isn't it?

Though i've noticed a couple of times Brady can't throw 2 "long" passes in a row. He's still elite at finding open guys though.

Genuine question.

Could Brady potentially win the Super Bowl with this new team of his or is it just a too bigger step to get there.

Is he already generally regarded as the GOAT? (I don't know the answer)

@Hooroo said in NFL Season 2020/21:

@mariner4life said in NFL Season 2020/21:

@KiwiMurph said in NFL Season 2020/21:

@mariner4life Brady certainly looks to have more left in his arm than Brees.

astounding isn't it?

Though i've noticed a couple of times Brady can't throw 2 "long" passes in a row. He's still elite at finding open guys though.

Genuine question.

Could Brady potentially win the Super Bowl with this new team of his or is it just a too bigger step to get there.

Is he already generally regarded as the GOAT? (I don't know the answer)

can they win? Yes. Do i expect them to? no

Is he the GOAT? yes. i can't stand him, but he's the fucking GOAT

that said, without two interceptions/fumbles, they don't have touchdowns, so once again he's being carried by his defence...

another pick. incredible. Tampa defense owning Brees

Finally get to see Rodgers v Brady in the playoffs.

Can't wait for next week. Both games will be crackers.

Seems everyone is convinced Brees will retire

Shout out to the Browns for putting in today against the Chiefs.

Man I’d love to see the Chiefs beat the Bills.

@ACT-Crusader Do you mean Bills beat the Chiefs?

Surely the Bills have the support of the neutrals given their tortured history and what a Super Bowl would mean for that city.

@KiwiMurph nah I’ve never liked the Bills and the Patriots. The Dolphins were one of my favourite teams as a kid and there was the rivalry with the Bills that we always got into.

The Bills winning would be great story after the heartache of losing 4 consecutive SB games to the NFC East in the 1990s.

@Bovidae said in NFL Season 2020/21:

The Bills winning would be great story after the heartache of losing 4 consecutive SB games to the NFC East in the 1990s.

Would be redemption as it was for the Broncos who lost 5 SBs before winning their last 3

god, i am watching First Take, and it is EVERYTHING i hate about modern sports journalism. Take away the fact Stephen A is on, so it's all bombastic bullshit, but

the never ending quest for "narrative" just does my head in. And they way they can boil complex discussions down to one game, or one period.

Apparently, this weekend is huge for Mahomes legacy. The fuck? One championship game for a guy who has already won everything there is to win in like 3 seasons?

The continued need to define everything about a player/team based on one result is incredible to me. Even good sports teams lose. Even great players lose. It's fucked.

The other one we've touched on is how this season will define Curry. What the actual fuck?

I've seen the same thing about rugby, how a loss means one player from the loser team is obviously inferior to his opposite in the winning side.

Modern sports journalism can die in a fire

Stephen A and Skip Bayless make amoeba seem intelligent.

@mariner4life and it’s only Championship week. It turns up about 10 notches in the SB off week....

Philip Rivers does retire.

Really good career at a small team. And finished with a pretty fucking good year at the Colts too

No better player in the league to have mic'd up too. Funny guy constantly chirping the defense.

The quarterback scene is going to be fascinating to watch this offseason.

You've got Saints and Colts with their QBs retired - Steelers with their QB on his last legs - Watson wanting out of Texans - multiple teams supposedly looking for new QBs (e.g. 49ers, Bears) - a strong QB class in the upcoming Draft with 4-5 QBs expected to go in the first round.

@KiwiMurph said in NFL Season 2020/21:

The quarterback scene is going to be fascinating to watch this offseason.

You've got Saints and Colts with their QBs retired - Steelers with their QB on his last legs - Watson wanting out of Texans - multiple teams supposedly looking for new QBs (e.g. 49ers, Bears) - a strong QB class in the upcoming Draft with 4-5 QBs expected to go in the first round.

there could be a massive amount of change.

I hope some of it is in Denver

@KiwiMurph said in NFL Season 2020/21:

The quarterback scene is going to be fascinating to watch this offseason.

You've got Saints and Colts with their QBs retired - Steelers with their QB on his last legs - Watson wanting out of Texans - multiple teams supposedly looking for new QBs (e.g. 49ers, Bears) - a strong QB class in the upcoming Draft with 4-5 QBs expected to go in the first round.

I'd love to see Watson in a Niners uniform.....

@canefan So would I but I think the 49ers will be outbid for his services.

there's a bit of pressure on him at a new team i think. there's a bit of drama around his exit, he's had a good set of excuses at the Texans. If he doesn't perform to a very high level at the next place he's gonna cop it.

@mariner4life said in NFL Season 2020/21:

there's a bit of pressure on him at a new team i think. there's a bit of drama around his exit, he's had a good set of excuses at the Texans. If he doesn't perform to a very high level at the next place he's gonna cop it.

I disagree. The pressure is on the Texans to replace Watson. That place is a dumpster fire. They traded away DeAndre Hopkins for peanuts.

Watson has done nothing but play at a very high level all 4 seasons he's been in the league at the Texans.

Watson just had his best statistical season - 33 touchdowns, 7 picks, 70% completion. He hasn't had one bad year in the league yet.

Of course any high profile QB that doesn't perform at a high level is going to cop it - but it's the Texans that are looking bad in this stoush - not Watson - he's not exactly known as a diva.

@KiwiMurph fair comment, i would take him in a heartbeat.

my comment was, he's going to get paid, and sort of based on our convo the other day, there is even more pressure on an incoming highly paid QB, than one already in place. Less fan patience as well.

@KiwiMurph said in NFL Season 2020/21:

@canefan So would I but I think the 49ers will be outbid for his services.

Sadly yes

Seems like the front runners for Watson are the Jets and the Dolphins. Hope he ends up in Miami, they would become Superbowl contenders overnight.

@barbarian said in NFL Season 2020/21:

Seems like the front runners for Watson are the Jets and the Dolphins. Hope he ends up in Miami, they would become Superbowl contenders overnight.

QB swap?

@mariner4life Would be Watson for Tua and Miami's picks (think they've got 4 and 17 this year).

@barbarian said in NFL Season 2020/21:

@mariner4life Would be Watson for Tua and Miami's picks (think they've got 4 and 17 this year).

3 and 18. Given he has a no trade clause he has a decent amount of leverage over where he goes, so Miami's lack of state income tax and the strength of the Dolphins might be important.

Apparently he is really high on Saleh though, so maybe he'll like that for the jets. The jets have 2 and 23 so the Texans get their pick of non TL QBs.

The otherthing about Watson is that the prorated parts of his deal stay with the Texans. So you get a 25 year old QB who is borderline top 5, reliably top 10 with a contract running to 2025 that's at a discount on its real value.

3 first rounders start to look pretty fair when you think about it. Especially if you're the Dolphins or the Jets and you can give up all 3 in the next two drafts. One of the things that really fucked the redskins was not having a first round pick for 3 years. Just couldn't get fresh draft talent.

@Cyclops It's fascinating. Given the importance of QB in the league today, and how good Watson is, teams should be moving heaven and earth to get him. When was the last time a genuine top 5 QB was on the block like this?

Even if you were the Jags, surely you'd think long and hard about putting up the #1 pick. I know they've got Meyer as coach, and are going to take TL, but Watson is a proven superstar.

@barbarian said in NFL Season 2020/21:

@Cyclops It's fascinating. Given the importance of QB in the league today, and how good Watson is, teams should be moving heaven and earth to get him. When was the last time a genuine top 5 QB was on the block like this?

Even if you were the Jags, surely you'd think long and hard about putting up the #1 pick. I know they've got Meyer as coach, and are going to take TL, but Watson is a proven superstar.

Why bother with a prospect who may or may be the second coming when Watson is a bonafide top 3 QB in his prime right now. I would give up TL in a heartbeat

@Dice there's a great one doing the rounds from JJ Watt who reckons one day Rivers was telling off his other linebacker that he was standing in the wrong position for the blitz they were about to run. and he was 100% right

@barbarian said in NFL Season 2020/21:

@Cyclops It's fascinating. Given the importance of QB in the league today, and how good Watson is, teams should be moving heaven and earth to get him. When was the last time a genuine top 5 QB was on the block like this?

Even if you were the Jags, surely you'd think long and hard about putting up the #1 pick. I know they've got Meyer as coach, and are going to take TL, but Watson is a proven superstar.

Yep the they must be thinking about it. Does Watson waive his no trade clause for Jacksonville though? Home market size is less relevant these days, so again being state income tax free will be a big draw.

Is reality if Watson is available for trade there will be about 26 teams that inquire. Even if its just a 'oh you want that much, well good luck' call.