Klitschko, Fury, Parker, Takam & Joshua

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Cookie" data-cid="546810" data-time="1449692177">
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<p>Yes but we were living in very different times back then and yes he went too far sometimes but mostly Ali was very entertaining</p>
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<p>Yes we are, now people feel that they have to be offended by pretty much everything they read online or see on the TV. </p>
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<p>I agree with Sparky. He's obviously playing the heel a bit.</p>
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<p>I'm kind of happy that heavyweight boxing is back in the headlines.</p>

“There are only three things that need to be accomplished before the devil comes home: one of them is homosexuality being legal in countries, one of them is abortion and the other oneâ€s paedophilia.”<br><br>
Yep, hilarious.

<p>Calm down, nobody said it was hilarious.</p>
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<p>He's playing the bad guy to get a reaction I think.</p>
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<p>Judging by the overreaction on here, it's been a raging success.</p>

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Cookie" data-cid="546810" data-time="1449692177"><p>
Yes but we were living in very different times back then and yes he went too far sometimes but mostly Ali was very entertaining</p></blockquote>
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I was a kid when Ali was around , <br><br>
It's interesting how the perception of him has changed , is loved now , but not at the time <br><br>
He used to divide big time , people used to tune into his fights hoping to see the big mouth get hurt

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Cookie" data-cid="546819" data-time="1449695447">
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<p>“There are only three things that need to be accomplished before the devil comes home: one of them is homosexuality being legal in countries, one of them is abortion and the other oneâ€s paedophilia.”<br><br>
Yep, hilarious.</p>
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<p>"The white man is my enemy" and "Joe Frazier is an Uncle Tom, he works to the enemy". Amongst a ton of others.</p>
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<p>Mundine is probably a better example, some absolutely off-the-reservation ideas as far as I'm concerned but it certainly helped develop his character and get people interested in his fights at least for a little while.</p>
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<p>There is a reason Hulk Hogan won his first WWF title off the Iron Sheik and many of his first defences were against Koloff and Volkoff - not to mention the Slaughter/Sadam Hussein angle the gulf war.</p>
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<p>Tying the social issues of the day into the fight game is as old as the day is long.</p>

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="sparky" data-cid="546798" data-time="1449685123">
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<p>I couldn't give a monkeys what Tyson Fury's political and religious opinions are. They are a private matter for him and his family. If the media find his opinions offensive they shouldn't keep asking him or broadcasting them.<br><br>
But the idea that a guy who has just defeated a legend like Klitschko and become heavy-weight champion of the world, shouldn't be on a short list of the 12 best sports stars in the UK is utterly ridiculous. Fury isn't standing for political office or offering to bring up anyone else's children, his job is knocking 7 bells out of another guy in a boxing ring. Something he is very good at.<br><br>
It's not like a nation that got dumped out of the last Soccer, Cricket and Rugby world cups (even when they had home advantage) in the group stages, is so blessed with sporting process and success that they can turn their noses up at a talented athlete like Tyson Fury.</p>
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<p>Some people, you know, get a little miffed by homophobia and misogyny.</p>

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="546820" data-time="1449696064">
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<p>Calm down, nobody said it was hilarious.</p>
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<p>He's playing the bad guy to get a reaction I think.</p>
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<p>Judging by the overreaction on here, it's been a raging success.</p>
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<p>I actually think he's just speaking his mind. I don't think he thinks he's a bad guy at all.</p>

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Ben" data-cid="546835" data-time="1449698822">
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<p>I actually think he's just speaking his mind. I don't think he thinks he's a bad guy at all.</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/boxing/tyson-fury-tells-critics-suck-6963514'>These are not the actions</a> of someone who isn't at least a little self aware. Pure heel playing the crowd for a pay day.</p>

Maybe I just don't get his "humour". I don't find him offensive, he's a boxer FFS, it's just when he opens his mouth he just seems to make a massive twat of himself. But then maybe that's just me, we'll have to agree to disagree on that.<br><br>
Comparing him with Ali? Let's just say you can cut a guy a bit it of slack once he's become sporting icon. Fury has a looooong way to go before he can lace his boots. I don't think Fury is in it for the long haul, my guess is he knows he is a limited fighter and is enjoying his moment in the sun.<br><br>
That's ok I can just enjoy it all the more when he gets pole axed- which I guess is the point.

<p>He can be a limited fighter if he can negate opponents best punches with that long long reach.</p>

<p>I don't find Fury offensive, probably because I'm not a woman, not gay and have never had an abortion, but I do think he's a complete asshole.</p>
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<p>A lot of what he says isn't a "political opinion". It's just uneducated bullshit.</p>
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<p>If some people enjoy listening to that, then good for you, but to me it's not worth listening too.</p>

Obviously it is great when sports stars become great role models, although they are under no obligation to do so. Muhammad Ali (the greatest), John Kirwan and Jonah Lomu all developed into impressive humanitarians who did practical things to take on injustice and help people.<br><br>
Fury is entitled to his opinions the same as anyone else. It is just a shame that he has used his platform as heavyweight champion of the world so far to spread prejudice. I hope he learns from this when to keep his mouth shut and becomes a better person.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Ben" data-cid="546833" data-time="1449698759"><p>Some people, you know, get a little miffed by homophobia and misogyny.</p></blockquote>
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Yep, I'm very much one of them. The way to deal with these evils is through discussion, education and changing minds, not censorship.

Most of you aren't the biggest pugilistic fans but I for one struggle to accept Ali as 'the greatest' ( I believe it's not so clear cut ) when he lost five times. George Foreman said he thought Lennox Lewis was the greatest purely because he avenged both his losses. <br><br>
All a matter of opinion I guess and you're only as good as the guy in front of you but fight fans have been lamenting the poor quality of heavyweight boxing for over 20 years......

Ali avenged his losses to Frazier, Norten and Spinks. All of those guys were much better fighters than McCall (it was a kind of rope-a-dope) and Rahman. Ali was way too old and broken to get back at Holmes and Berbick. Not sure if avenging losses is the best way to gauge the greatness of boxers. IMHO a focussed and motivated Tyson would be close to unbeatable. But in terms of consistency he can never be considered among the greats.

Tyson at his peak for me. Ali was the greatest not because of his boxing skills but the way he transcended his sport. Bit like Cullen vs Lomu

I was always a fan of the real old school sluggers like Jeffries, Dempsey and Marciano. Mind you Jack Johnson was basically the Ali of his era. I've never subscribed to the theory that modern fighters would beat them just because they were bigger.

<p>Not the greatest but I was always a bit of a fan of Evander. This round (the 10th) from 92 vs Riddick Bowe is pretty amazing</p>
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<p>Another cracking round of boxing is this one from 2002 Gatti vs Ward. They just keep on going</p>
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<p>that round lasted forever just watching, musta been like an hour to them!! </p>

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="547022" data-time="1449733236">
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<p>I was always a fan of the real old school sluggers like Jeffries, Dempsey and Marciano. Mind you Jack Johnson was basically the Ali of his era. I've never subscribed to the theory that modern fighters would beat them just because they were bigger.</p>
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<p>I dont think its a matter of modern fighters being better , its just strength and power increases with evolution , its an old argument with all power sports I guess , </p>
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<p>For example  how would Colin Meads go against Brodie Retallick , that type of thing </p>

<p>I cant pick a greatest , so many greats from all different eras ,and like other sports its hard to compare eras,</p>
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<p>i like Ali for skill , his hand speed and footwork was something else, and we possibly didnt see the best of him with his stint in jail when he was at his peak, </p>
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<p>Tyson for power , at his best I dont think anyone could have stood there and exchanged  with him , not in early rounds anyway when he used to burst out of the blocks like a mad man </p>

<p>Would have loved to see a 3 round slug fest of tua vs tyson. Doubt it would last 3 rounds.</p>
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<p>Tua in his prime was amazing. Sure he fought a lot of bums but they all do in the early stages. The way Tua dealt to the likes of Ruiz and Moorer and the wins over Rahman and Maskaev was pretty dam impressive. Was a shame he didnt bring his a-game ve Lewis. That fight had some much potential but never came to the boil.</p>

To me the 'bigger,faster,stronger' stuff is more pertinent in Rugby. Much more so. I mean can anyone imagine the 75-80kg midfielders of yesteryear handling Nonu?<br><br>
I reckon some of the older fighters could have slugged it out on an even keel with Tyson.....have a read of this tough bugger.....<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_J._Jeffries">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_J._Jeffries</a><br><br>
Mind you, it's ultimately impossible to say and Tyson was damn scary in his prime.....hard to gauge Jeffries from shitty black and white footage.<br><br>
JK, Tua did bring his A game he just couldn't grow any taller! I still reckon even getting a shot was a great achievement though.

When you look at Fury, with that body he could easily be mistaken with the fighters of yesteryear. One thing with boxing is that it has been professional for more than a century. The tops guys could afford to do nothing but train. Yes there have been advances in training, conditioning, nutrition etc. but the fundamentals are still the same. You could perhaps also argue that there was a much bigger and better pool of talent back in the day. <br><br>
Didn't they also use to fight an astonishing number of rounds in the early days? Like 50 or something.

<p>Fury is revelling in the publicity. This is brilliant.</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.independent.ie/videos/sport/tyson-fury-im-mr-famous-now-34273794.html'>http://www.independent.ie/videos/sport/tyson-fury-im-mr-famous-now-34273794.html</a></p>

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="547148" data-time="1449798886">
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<p>Fury is revelling in the publicity. This is brilliant.</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.independent.ie/videos/sport/tyson-fury-im-mr-famous-now-34273794.html'>http://www.independent.ie/videos/sport/tyson-fury-im-mr-famous-now-34273794.html</a></p>
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<p>Shame The Fast Show isn't still on. Perfect material.</p>

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="547137" data-time="1449796538"><p>
When you look at Fury, with that body he could easily be mistaken with the fighters of yesteryear. One thing with boxing is that it has been professional for more than a century. The tops guys could afford to do nothing but train. Yes there have been advances in training, conditioning, nutrition etc. but the fundamentals are still the same. You could perhaps also argue that there was a much bigger and better pool of talent back in the day. <br>
Didn't they also use to fight an astonishing number of rounds in the early days? Like 50 or something.</p></blockquote>
Google images of Jack Johnson ( not the singer ) and Jim Jeffries ( not the comedian ) both of them have physiques seriously ahead of their time. Definitely a few weight sessions and steak meals in there along with awesome genetics.<br><br>
As for the rounds, yes they did a ridiculous amount and some of those were fucken bare knuckled !?!?!<br><br>
Again, ya can't compare eras but fuck those old fluffybunnies must have been tough.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="547072" data-time="1449781383">
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<p>To me the 'bigger,faster,stronger' stuff is more pertinent in Rugby. Much more so. I mean can anyone imagine the 75-80kg midfielders of yesteryear handling Nonu?<br><br>
I reckon some of the older fighters could have slugged it out on an even keel with Tyson.....have a read of this tough bugger.....<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_J._Jeffries">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_J._Jeffries</a><br><br>
Mind you, it's ultimately impossible to say and Tyson was damn scary in his prime.....hard to gauge Jeffries from shitty black and white footage.<br><br>
JK, Tua did bring his A game he just couldn't grow any taller! I still reckon even getting a shot was a great achievement though.</p>
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<p>Marciano was a beast in his time , but fought at about 85  kilos ,( I find that hard to believe he was that small but thats what they tell us)  had a reach shorter than Mayweathers , I heard he only fought 2 guys that weighed more than 200 pounds ( 90 kilos)  , modern fighters are 110 plus now </p>
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<p>He would be a small  cruiserweight now you would think , </p>
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<p>Absolute beast in his era , and not intending to take anything away from him because he is a legend,  but its hard to imagine him with his style , bothering the big units like Lennox Lewis and Klitchko too much now </p>

<p>Mike Tyson v George Foreman would have been fun while it lasted</p>
<p>Holyfield v Bowe are great heavyweight fights</p>
<p>Tua had some great fights yes but some utter shite as well - motivation and ring smarts when needed (easily outskilled) were at times lacking.</p>
<p>Def Tua just did not have the work ethic and dedication of Parker - if he did he prob would have got a version of the title</p>

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="547173" data-time="1449806211"><p>
Google images of Jack Johnson ( not the singer ) and Jim Jeffries ( not the comedian ) both of them have physiques seriously ahead of their time. Definitely a few weight sessions and steak meals in there along with awesome genetics.<br><br>
As for the rounds, yes they did a ridiculous amount and some of those were fucken bare knuckled !?!?!<br><br>
Again, ya can't compare eras but fuck those old fluffybunnys must have been tough.</p></blockquote>
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Yep, I remember when I first saw footage of Johnson and thought straightway that his physique wouldn't look out of place in modern boxing. No performance enhancing shit at that time either. He wasn't huge though. 90 odd kilos IIRC.

<p>Anthony Joshua knocks outs Whyte to remain undefeated..</p>
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<p>Seems to be a couple of fighters that Parker will have to go through..</p>

<p>AJ prob ahead of Parker at this stage and he is very marketable</p>
<p>Parker v Unistov (who won other day) a good option then target an elimination fight.</p>
<p>Parker is being noticed on the HW stage so keeping winning is paramount</p>

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bart The Muss" data-cid="547409" data-time="1449982092">
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<p>AJ prob ahead of Parker at this stage and he is very marketable</p>
<p>Parker v Unistov (who won other day) a good option then target an elimination fight.</p>
<p>Parker is being noticed on the HW stage so keeping winning is paramount</p>
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<p>In today's SST it says Parker is now ranked no.3 in the WBO rankings.  Joshua is ranked no.2. </p>
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<p>I doubt Duco will get some of the better heavyweights to fight Parker in NZ so they'll have to fight in the US.  The likes of Shannon Briggs have turned down fights with Parker.</p>

<p>Shannon Briggs is a joke - he fighting guys worse than Parkers and trying to talk his way to a payday.</p>
<p>He managed it once against Vitaly and got nearly every bone in his face broken.</p>
<p>Parker would batter him</p>
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<p>I have never of the american guy ranked have to find his name again and google his ass</p>

<p>Sure Parker is ranked 3rd for WBO.. But hes not even ranked top 10 for the other belts.. </p>
<p>Parker has a long way to go.. Haye looks to making a comeback as well.. </p>

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="547410" data-time="1449984114">
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<p>In today's SST it says Parker is now ranked no.3 in the WBO rankings.  Joshua is ranked no.2. </p>
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<p>I doubt Duco will get some of the better heavyweights to fight Parker in NZ so they'll have to fight in the US.  The likes of Shannon Briggs have turned down fights with Parker.</p>
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<p>Might be wrong but I have some concerns looking forward that Duco could be a handicap for Joseph , just not convinced they are capable of getting him the fights he needs , especially like you say , they want to keep fighting in NZ where they can have him as the main event and secure the rights to the pay per view , </p>
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<p>At some stage if he keeps climbing , something has to give , he probably needs to fight on some more big  overseas undercards as a stepping stone , not sure Duco will want that though </p>

<p>I hear ya, If u love someone set them free....</p>
<p>Duco can still make $$ from Parker fighting overseas by bargaining percentages etc</p>
<p>NZ is a limited market especially if ur angling for a world title</p>
<p>Parker has fought overseas before- u go where the fights are</p>

<p>Parker has the same problem Tua had - his reputation to hit people hard precedes him. Tua was one of the most feared men in heavyweight boxing history, which is another reason he faced so many bums - the top names avoided him like the plague.</p>