<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Ben" data-cid="546833" data-time="1449698759"><p>Some people, you know, get a little miffed by homophobia and misogyny.</p></blockquote>
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Yep, I'm very much one of them. The way to deal with these evils is through discussion, education and changing minds, not censorship.
Most of you aren't the biggest pugilistic fans but I for one struggle to accept Ali as 'the greatest' ( I believe it's not so clear cut ) when he lost five times. George Foreman said he thought Lennox Lewis was the greatest purely because he avenged both his losses. <br><br>
All a matter of opinion I guess and you're only as good as the guy in front of you but fight fans have been lamenting the poor quality of heavyweight boxing for over 20 years......
Ali avenged his losses to Frazier, Norten and Spinks. All of those guys were much better fighters than McCall (it was a kind of rope-a-dope) and Rahman. Ali was way too old and broken to get back at Holmes and Berbick. Not sure if avenging losses is the best way to gauge the greatness of boxers. IMHO a focussed and motivated Tyson would be close to unbeatable. But in terms of consistency he can never be considered among the greats.
I was always a fan of the real old school sluggers like Jeffries, Dempsey and Marciano. Mind you Jack Johnson was basically the Ali of his era. I've never subscribed to the theory that modern fighters would beat them just because they were bigger.
<p>Not the greatest but I was always a bit of a fan of Evander. This round (the 10th) from 92 vs Riddick Bowe is pretty amazing</p>
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<p>Another cracking round of boxing is this one from 2002 Gatti vs Ward. They just keep on going</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="547022" data-time="1449733236">
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<p>I was always a fan of the real old school sluggers like Jeffries, Dempsey and Marciano. Mind you Jack Johnson was basically the Ali of his era. I've never subscribed to the theory that modern fighters would beat them just because they were bigger.</p>
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<p>I dont think its a matter of modern fighters being better , its just strength and power increases with evolution , its an old argument with all power sports I guess , </p>
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<p>For example how would Colin Meads go against Brodie Retallick , that type of thing </p>
<p>I cant pick a greatest , so many greats from all different eras ,and like other sports its hard to compare eras,</p>
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<p>i like Ali for skill , his hand speed and footwork was something else, and we possibly didnt see the best of him with his stint in jail when he was at his peak, </p>
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<p>Tyson for power , at his best I dont think anyone could have stood there and exchanged with him , not in early rounds anyway when he used to burst out of the blocks like a mad man </p>
<p>Would have loved to see a 3 round slug fest of tua vs tyson. Doubt it would last 3 rounds.</p>
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<p>Tua in his prime was amazing. Sure he fought a lot of bums but they all do in the early stages. The way Tua dealt to the likes of Ruiz and Moorer and the wins over Rahman and Maskaev was pretty dam impressive. Was a shame he didnt bring his a-game ve Lewis. That fight had some much potential but never came to the boil.</p>
To me the 'bigger,faster,stronger' stuff is more pertinent in Rugby. Much more so. I mean can anyone imagine the 75-80kg midfielders of yesteryear handling Nonu?<br><br>
I reckon some of the older fighters could have slugged it out on an even keel with Tyson.....have a read of this tough bugger.....<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_J._Jeffries">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_J._Jeffries</a><br><br>
Mind you, it's ultimately impossible to say and Tyson was damn scary in his prime.....hard to gauge Jeffries from shitty black and white footage.<br><br>
JK, Tua did bring his A game he just couldn't grow any taller! I still reckon even getting a shot was a great achievement though.
When you look at Fury, with that body he could easily be mistaken with the fighters of yesteryear. One thing with boxing is that it has been professional for more than a century. The tops guys could afford to do nothing but train. Yes there have been advances in training, conditioning, nutrition etc. but the fundamentals are still the same. You could perhaps also argue that there was a much bigger and better pool of talent back in the day. <br><br>
Didn't they also use to fight an astonishing number of rounds in the early days? Like 50 or something.
<p>Fury is revelling in the publicity. This is brilliant.</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.independent.ie/videos/sport/tyson-fury-im-mr-famous-now-34273794.html'>http://www.independent.ie/videos/sport/tyson-fury-im-mr-famous-now-34273794.html</a></p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="547148" data-time="1449798886">
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<p>Fury is revelling in the publicity. This is brilliant.</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.independent.ie/videos/sport/tyson-fury-im-mr-famous-now-34273794.html'>http://www.independent.ie/videos/sport/tyson-fury-im-mr-famous-now-34273794.html</a></p>
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<p>Shame The Fast Show isn't still on. Perfect material.</p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="547137" data-time="1449796538"><p>
When you look at Fury, with that body he could easily be mistaken with the fighters of yesteryear. One thing with boxing is that it has been professional for more than a century. The tops guys could afford to do nothing but train. Yes there have been advances in training, conditioning, nutrition etc. but the fundamentals are still the same. You could perhaps also argue that there was a much bigger and better pool of talent back in the day. <br>
Didn't they also use to fight an astonishing number of rounds in the early days? Like 50 or something.</p></blockquote>
Google images of Jack Johnson ( not the singer ) and Jim Jeffries ( not the comedian ) both of them have physiques seriously ahead of their time. Definitely a few weight sessions and steak meals in there along with awesome genetics.<br><br>
As for the rounds, yes they did a ridiculous amount and some of those were fucken bare knuckled !?!?!<br><br>
Again, ya can't compare eras but fuck those old fluffybunnies must have been tough.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="547072" data-time="1449781383">
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<p>To me the 'bigger,faster,stronger' stuff is more pertinent in Rugby. Much more so. I mean can anyone imagine the 75-80kg midfielders of yesteryear handling Nonu?<br><br>
I reckon some of the older fighters could have slugged it out on an even keel with Tyson.....have a read of this tough bugger.....<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_J._Jeffries">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_J._Jeffries</a><br><br>
Mind you, it's ultimately impossible to say and Tyson was damn scary in his prime.....hard to gauge Jeffries from shitty black and white footage.<br><br>
JK, Tua did bring his A game he just couldn't grow any taller! I still reckon even getting a shot was a great achievement though.</p>
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<p>Marciano was a beast in his time , but fought at about 85 kilos ,( I find that hard to believe he was that small but thats what they tell us) had a reach shorter than Mayweathers , I heard he only fought 2 guys that weighed more than 200 pounds ( 90 kilos) , modern fighters are 110 plus now </p>
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<p>He would be a small cruiserweight now you would think , </p>
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<p>Absolute beast in his era , and not intending to take anything away from him because he is a legend, but its hard to imagine him with his style , bothering the big units like Lennox Lewis and Klitchko too much now </p>
<p>Mike Tyson v George Foreman would have been fun while it lasted</p>
<p>Holyfield v Bowe are great heavyweight fights</p>
<p>Tua had some great fights yes but some utter shite as well - motivation and ring smarts when needed (easily outskilled) were at times lacking.</p>
<p>Def Tua just did not have the work ethic and dedication of Parker - if he did he prob would have got a version of the title</p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.facebook.com/855192874578934/videos/868715163226705/'>https://www.facebook.com/855192874578934/videos/868715163226705/</a></p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="547173" data-time="1449806211"><p>
Google images of Jack Johnson ( not the singer ) and Jim Jeffries ( not the comedian ) both of them have physiques seriously ahead of their time. Definitely a few weight sessions and steak meals in there along with awesome genetics.<br><br>
As for the rounds, yes they did a ridiculous amount and some of those were fucken bare knuckled !?!?!<br><br>
Again, ya can't compare eras but fuck those old fluffybunnys must have been tough.</p></blockquote>
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Yep, I remember when I first saw footage of Johnson and thought straightway that his physique wouldn't look out of place in modern boxing. No performance enhancing shit at that time either. He wasn't huge though. 90 odd kilos IIRC.
<p>Anthony Joshua knocks outs Whyte to remain undefeated..</p>
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<p>Seems to be a couple of fighters that Parker will have to go through..</p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bart The Muss" data-cid="547409" data-time="1449982092">
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<p>AJ prob ahead of Parker at this stage and he is very marketable</p>
<p>Parker v Unistov (who won other day) a good option then target an elimination fight.</p>
<p>Parker is being noticed on the HW stage so keeping winning is paramount</p>
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<p>In today's SST it says Parker is now ranked no.3 in the WBO rankings. Joshua is ranked no.2. </p>
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<p>I doubt Duco will get some of the better heavyweights to fight Parker in NZ so they'll have to fight in the US. The likes of Shannon Briggs have turned down fights with Parker.</p>
<p>Shannon Briggs is a joke - he fighting guys worse than Parkers and trying to talk his way to a payday.</p>
<p>He managed it once against Vitaly and got nearly every bone in his face broken.</p>
<p>Parker would batter him</p>
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<p>I have never of the american guy ranked have to find his name again and google his ass</p>
<p>Sure Parker is ranked 3rd for WBO.. But hes not even ranked top 10 for the other belts.. </p>
<p>Parker has a long way to go.. Haye looks to making a comeback as well.. </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="547410" data-time="1449984114">
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<p>In today's SST it says Parker is now ranked no.3 in the WBO rankings. Joshua is ranked no.2. </p>
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<p>I doubt Duco will get some of the better heavyweights to fight Parker in NZ so they'll have to fight in the US. The likes of Shannon Briggs have turned down fights with Parker.</p>
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<p>Might be wrong but I have some concerns looking forward that Duco could be a handicap for Joseph , just not convinced they are capable of getting him the fights he needs , especially like you say , they want to keep fighting in NZ where they can have him as the main event and secure the rights to the pay per view , </p>
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<p>At some stage if he keeps climbing , something has to give , he probably needs to fight on some more big overseas undercards as a stepping stone , not sure Duco will want that though </p>
<p>Parker has the same problem Tua had - his reputation to hit people hard precedes him. Tua was one of the most feared men in heavyweight boxing history, which is another reason he faced so many bums - the top names avoided him like the plague.</p>
Another good win for Anthony Joshua, awesome upper cut to finish. It looks like he will fight Fury in the autumn of 2016. Be interesting to see who he takes on before that.
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<p>Might be wrong but I have some concerns looking forward that Duco could be a handicap for Joseph , just not convinced they are capable of getting him the fights he needs , especially like you say , they want to keep fighting in NZ where they can have him as the main event and secure the rights to the pay per view , </p>
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<p>I agree. Duco is talking about JP fighting on Sunday afternoon (NZT) to maximise the US Saturday night PPV audience. Kevin Barry knows the boxing world better than Duco so should be the person who has most control over Parker's development and future opportunities.</p>
<p>If Joshua fights Parker down the track , you would think , it will be the guy with the best defense and or chin that takes it out with both fighters having plenty of speed and power in their hands, </p>
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<p>I watched bits of the Joshua fight from over the weekend , Duco need to get Parker some better fights , they are talking it up , but the fighters he has been fighting are a long way from this standard </p>
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<p>Thanks for posting that.</p>
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<p>Good test for Joshua. Came throuugh it well.</p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Godder" data-cid="547427" data-time="1449997527"><p>Parker has the same problem Tua had - his reputation to hit people hard precedes him. Tua was one of the most feared men in heavyweight boxing history, which is another reason he faced so many bums - the top names avoided him like the plague.</p></blockquote>
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I don't reckon Parker is remotely in Tuas league in terms of power punching.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="547550" data-time="1450047527">
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<p>I don't reckon Parker is remotely in Tuas league in terms of power punching.</p>
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<p>No he isn't not many had that 1 punch power- much better boxer though better conditioning and dedication.</p>
<p>Tua did do really well with his limitations - reach-height- boxing skills.</p>
<p>When he was motivated and trained Tua could trouble anyone with his power</p>
Despite relative similarities I reckon early Tyson was a much better 'boxer' than Tua. He seemed to lose a lot of those skills once he got out of jail though.
<p>Tyson was afar better boxer</p>
<p>Extreme head movement (Tua limited there although used shoulder roll defence quite well but by-in-large was hit way too much losing rounds relying on his granite head to wear opponents down.</p>
<p>Tyson's hand /upperbody and hip movement was freakish</p>
<p>Add that to knock out power in both hands and a large array of combinations ( Tua again limited in punching combos)</p>
<p>In saying that its a fight that could go either way between the 2 although I think Mikes speed would take it.</p>
<p>Tyson lost alot of that movement and speed as he got older and not just because of prison- those reflect movements are only belonging to the youth once that goes fighters must change their game plans/styles- same thing happened to Ali when he got older- no way 60's early 70's Ali would rope a dope Foreman- he would beat him with footwork and hand speed as well as freakish ablility to dodge punches. alar Liston fight- Cleveland Williams</p>
<p>Look at Roy Jones Jr a reflects fighter still trying to continue ( a crime) he can no longer evade punches from journeyman and he takes them on the chin</p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bart The Muss" data-cid="547608" data-time="1450070647">
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<p>Tyson was afar better boxer</p>
<p>Extreme head movement (Tua limited there although used shoulder roll defence quite well but by-in-large was hit way too much losing rounds relying on his granite head to wear opponents down.</p>
<p>Tyson's hand /upperbody and hip movement was freakish</p>
<p>Add that to knock out power in both hands and a large array of combinations ( Tua again limited in punching combos)</p>
<p>In saying that its a fight that could go either way between the 2 although I think Mikes speed would take it.</p>
<p>Tyson lost alot of that movement and speed as he got older and not just because of prison- those reflect movements are only belonging to the youth once that goes fighters must change their game plans/styles- same thing happened to Ali when he got older- no way 60's early 70's Ali would rope a dope Foreman- he would beat him with footwork and hand speed as well as freakish ablility to dodge punches. alar Liston fight- Cleveland Williams</p>
<p>Look at Roy Jones Jr a reflects fighter still trying to continue ( a crime) he can no longer evade punches from journeyman and he takes them on the chin</p>
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<p>Yeah , Tyson had more tricks I reckon with his ducking and weaving , and had knock out power in both hands ,</p>
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<div>with Tua it was usually about the lethal left hook , made him that bit more predictable , but what a hook it was all the same </div>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="547550" data-time="1450047527">
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<p>I don't reckon Parker is remotely in Tuas league in terms of power punching.</p>
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<p>Yeah , he is knocking guys out as a result of combinations , still effective though , </p>
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<p>But Tua would put them to sleep with one punch </p>
<p>yes Tua was more a 1 trick pony- or more he relied on the left hook to get him out of trouble... trouble for Tua was not getting hurt but falling behind by huge distances on pts, too many times he got away with ko in 9-10th round. Not knocking him for doing so but I think it may have hindered his progress as a boxer and he was happy just to be a puncher.</p>
<p>Tua did have a right hand that could hurt- ask former HW champ Micheal Moorer ( not the worlds best chin though)</p>
<p>Parker and Tua although both Samoan Kiwis are poles apart as boxers. Iloved watching Tua ko people back in the day but its JP's time now and I will watch and support him as much as possible, if I win Lotto and can retire I and go to his fights!</p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="547634" data-time="1450110045">
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<p>In case anyone, like me had forgotten - wincing alert </p>
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