Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..)

@yeahtheboys said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

I’m sick of some of you eye-patch “supporters” hating on certain players and cherry picking everything about them.

I don't think that's the case though. @kiwi_expat has clearly set out why he thinks both Ardie and DMac are undersized. Not being parochial at all - but assessing what they see in the game.

I don't disagree. Jordie's size and boot offers something different. We should be looking at how we'll go against physically confrontational teams - and when you get into that battle (on a good day England, SA, Lions, Aus , France) then size does become important. So I have sympathy for the view -and I think DMac brings a lot to the table, particularly off the bench. You can't coach speed, and he's got it.

DMac’s best position is probably 10, not that different a player than RM. awesome with front foot ball, probably edges RM at super level at kicking a team around the park.

Neither has shown that ability at Test level, but score or set up exciting trys. If plan A doesn’t work, cupboard is bare.

Similar goal kicking too.

@bones said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@yeahtheboys said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

pedi stool

I think this is the highest value offering from your post. I want one.

Here you go honey:

As for some of the rest of it, esp about weight, Jacobson is only a few kg heavier (if you believe any of the weights on the internet). Some players also punch well above their weight in terms of impact. Sam Cane is one of them.

I'm yet to see this strong defence the Jordie fan boys talk about.

If Foster has a choice to make in the 23 it is Beauden or Jordie, not both.

@yeahtheboys said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

have Jordies cock stuck down your throat.

Yeah nothing “eye patch” about that one. I’d say zero self-awareness but that would be far too kind.

On the Ardie thing. He’s not out of position at 8 any more because he plays there so often. But he’s not the best test level option there. Imho that’s Jacobsen. Ardie is a brilliant bench option though.

@kiwi_expat said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

Spencer-like players in McKenzie & B.Barrett for their dual-playmaker axis in 2018 over Mo'unga

ah, Richie Mo'unga is the Carlos Spencer you buy from Wish

@yeahtheboys said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

I’m sick of some of you eye-patch “supporters” hating on certain players and cherry picking everything about them

fuck i so totally agree with it.

I believe two things:

Some of you have entrenched bias, and can't see past that when evaluating a players worth to the side

and

all the Barretts are shit and should stick to Super Rugby

DMac hasn't dominated been good since his injury.

I can't recall the last time Ardie had a positive impact in Test rugby.

McKenzie is pretty good positionally in general I reckon. Better than Jordie, though he's not bad either.
He's small, and he runs sideways when nothing is on. His decisions when things are on, are generally good. If nothing is on and you're a midget, buying some time by running sideways isn't actually the worst option, even though it is ugly as fuuuuck to watch.
Fact is Foster seems set on the dual playmaker, and McKenzie probably is the best of them in that role.

while we are having this discussion, again

DMac is far better under the high ball than he is given credit for. It's not just about being tall guys.

@mariner4life said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@yeahtheboys said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

I’m sick of some of you eye-patch “supporters” hating on certain players and cherry picking everything about them

fuck i so totally agree with it.

I believe two things:

Some of you have entrenched bias, and can't see past that when evaluating a players worth to the side

and

all the Barretts are shit and should stick to Super Rugby

https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F505810601877504926%2F&psig=AOvVaw1XgI5gdDFxDwccUPZ14LcH&ust=1628898829048000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCJi07pLXrPICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

@kiwi_expat I think you are way off beam in your analysis. Have you ever watched how opposition backlines react to DMacs field coverage? He constantly creates threats, and stretches the opposition to counter, popping up across the width of the park. I would have thought that wore down the opposition to some degree. Not sure how you and others regard him as such a liability in everything he does at high level.

Jordie is a great player and I think he could be a world class 12, but the Hurricanes make him play a certain type of game at 15 only, to cover limitations around him. He does that extremely well.

It is staggering to see how there is a huge outcry again about 15 when that is not what the Aussie comeback or heavy penalty count for AB's was all about.

@yeahtheboys well said!

@arhs said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@kiwi_expat I think you are way off beam in your analysis. Have you ever watched how opposition backlines react to DMacs field coverage? He constantly creates threats, and stretches the opposition to counter, popping up across the width of the park. I would have thought that wore down the opposition to some degree. Not sure how you and others regard him as such a liability in everything he does at high level.

thats not untrue....but i dont think he converts anywhere near as many as he should, he might stretch the defence and then throw a hospital pass or not see what he's created and take it into contact whilst isolated...maybe he's not tall enough too see everything

that why what he does, in my mind, works so much better as an impact when the team is tired, doing what he does in the first 20min with fresh jackles is dangerous

@arhs said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@kiwi_expat I think you are way off beam in your analysis. Have you ever watched how opposition backlines react to DMacs field coverage? He constantly creates threats, and stretches the opposition to counter, popping up across the width of the park. I would have thought that wore down the opposition to some degree. Not sure how you and others regard him as such a liability in everything he does at high level.

We're talking about Test rugby here. The one where he constantly goes backwards or runs away from support so our forwards have to go backwards to support him, or he gives hospital passes to avoid getting tackled.

@antipodean said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@arhs said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@kiwi_expat I think you are way off beam in your analysis. Have you ever watched how opposition backlines react to DMacs field coverage? He constantly creates threats, and stretches the opposition to counter, popping up across the width of the park. I would have thought that wore down the opposition to some degree. Not sure how you and others regard him as such a liability in everything he does at high level.

We're talking about Test rugby here. The one where he constantly goes backwards or runs away from support so our forwards have to go backwards to support him, or he gives hospital passes to avoid getting tackled.

He did that at least three times last test, looked flash but ABs ended up in s much worse position afterwards. It's really ineffective and undesirable at international level. Foster & Aaron specifically pointed out going wide to early, and DMac as one of the decision makers was one of the worst for that

@machpants its also hard to anticipate so the other backs seem to struggle to be in the right position IF he does create something

@arhs

I do find it funny that we spend so much time pissing around about 15, when our problems are with our go forward up front, our discipline, and our strategy/tactics which are the primary responsibility of our main playmaker.

I’m really starting to wonder whether Mo’unga can drive a team around the field - they seem set on having others there to help him do his job.

@gt12 said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@arhs

I do find it funny that we spend so much time pissing around about 15, when our problems are with our go forward up front, our discipline, and our strategy/tactics which are the primary responsibility of our main playmaker.

I’m really starting to wonder whether Mo’unga can drive a team around the field - they seem set on having others there to help him do his job.

Yeah they took it wide too early, because that what the play makers called. Smith mentioned that specifically, there were so many options, they tried them too early

@machpants said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@gt12 said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@arhs

I do find it funny that we spend so much time pissing around about 15, when our problems are with our go forward up front, our discipline, and our strategy/tactics which are the primary responsibility of our main playmaker.

I’m really starting to wonder whether Mo’unga can drive a team around the field - they seem set on having others there to help him do his job.

Yeah they took it wide too early, because that what the play makers called. Smith mentioned that specifically, there were so many options, they tried them too early

Yeah, I heard him talk about that and liked the fact that he said that he could also improve - they seem to have leadership teams and his appears to be defense, so he wasn't necessarily being as vocal as he could have. I'd like to know who drives the attack, as he didn't mention Dmac by name, but I assume it is Mo'unga, Havili, and Dmac. It may be too many cooks and broth situation, so Dmac probably has some blame.

Long story short the coaching staff became totally ambivelant about how the game should be played and the positional requirements at All Black level.

They started to fetishise getting in the squad rather than the 23 or 15.

There are a lot of issues but I think most start from there. How many players currently own their All Black jersey? Fuck all.

A big part of rugby is winning the collisions.

When you've got a lot of little guys in the team, you start to lose too many and too many in a row - and you get hurt.

You need a few playmakers - the best of whom tend to be a bit smaller and you have to accept they'll get flattened or run over occasionally - but, I like to have plenty of big guys around them so that there's bail out options regularly on hand and guys who can cover defensively. I miss Ma'a Nonu!

When we start fielding an under-sized 8 in Ardie, Aaron Smith, Mo'unga, Havili (a smallish 12), Sevu Reece and DMac that's starting to get a bit Japan-like to me.

I'm inclined to throw in a few more bigger bodies.

Most points ever put on Aussie. Foster 4 lyf.

@yeetyaah said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

Most points ever put on Aussie. Foster 4 lyf.

Yeah, nah

Rennie found out.

@bones said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

Rennie found out.

No Professor on the staff.

Guess we can lock this thread then?

The title was too long, and the content of the first post, really.

@kiwi_expat said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

While I'm not sold on DMac starting at 15, I have to disagree on this

Play him against tier-two opponents and he looks a million dollars, play him against big imposing physical sides and he'll get flattened, time and again.

He was pretty damn good at 15 against the likes of Wales, Ireland in 2018 - and outstanding against England on that tour and I'd hardly call those teams tier two or lacking physicality.

@act-crusader said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

When do we stop saying Ardie is “out of position” at no.8 when he has played more there for the Canes and ABs in the last 3 seasons than he has at openside.

When he starts from the bench?

@victor-meldrew said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@kiwi_expat said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

While I'm not sold on DMac starting at 15, I have to disagree on this

Play him against tier-two opponents and he looks a million dollars, play him against big imposing physical sides and he'll get flattened, time and again.

He was pretty damn good at 15 against the likes of Wales, Ireland in 2018 - and outstanding against England on that tour and I'd hardly call those teams tier two or lacking physicality.

Then he had his knee injury and it all went to shit.

@antipodean said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@victor-meldrew said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@kiwi_expat said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

While I'm not sold on DMac starting at 15, I have to disagree on this

Play him against tier-two opponents and he looks a million dollars, play him against big imposing physical sides and he'll get flattened, time and again.

He was pretty damn good at 15 against the likes of Wales, Ireland in 2018 - and outstanding against England on that tour and I'd hardly call those teams tier two or lacking physicality.

Then he had his knee injury and it all went to shit.

Yeah, seems to have lost a bit of snap.

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

Guess we can lock this thread then?

The title was too long, and the content of the first post, really.

One try that wasn't a break out from their own half wasn't it? Conceded three.

Problem solved.

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

Guess we can lock this thread then?

The title was too long, and the content of the first post, really.

One try that wasn't a break out from their own half wasn't it? Conceded three.

Problem solved.

Huh?

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

Guess we can lock this thread then?

The title was too long, and the content of the first post, really.

Tl;dr

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

Guess we can lock this thread then?

The title was too long, and the content of the first post, really.

One try that wasn't a break out from their own half wasn't it? Conceded three.

Problem solved.

Huh?

A shit ton of broken field tries in a single game doesn't address the main issues discussed in this thread.

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

Guess we can lock this thread then?

The title was too long, and the content of the first post, really.

One try that wasn't a break out from their own half wasn't it? Conceded three.

Problem solved.

Huh?

A shit ton of broken field tries in a single game doesn't address the main issues discussed in this thread.

I agree. Just not sure why you're quoting me about it.

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

Guess we can lock this thread then?

The title was too long, and the content of the first post, really.

One try that wasn't a break out from their own half wasn't it? Conceded three.

Problem solved.

Huh?

A shit ton of broken field tries in a single game doesn't address the main issues discussed in this thread.

I agree. Just not sure why you're quoting me about it.

I interpreted the lock the thread comment as being due to the win on Saturday night. If not my mistake.

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

Guess we can lock this thread then?

The title was too long, and the content of the first post, really.

One try that wasn't a break out from their own half wasn't it? Conceded three.

Problem solved.

Huh?

A shit ton of broken field tries in a single game doesn't address the main issues discussed in this thread.

I agree. Just not sure why you're quoting me about it.

I interpreted the lock the thread comment as being due to the win on Saturday night. If not my mistake.

Ah gotcha!

Look it is hard to keep up with exactly where the bitching starts and stops with you guys. 35 point flogging and people still want to yeet a bloke.

Tough crowd.

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

Guess we can lock this thread then?

The title was too long, and the content of the first post, really.

One try that wasn't a break out from their own half wasn't it? Conceded three.

Problem solved.

Huh?

A shit ton of broken field tries in a single game doesn't address the main issues discussed in this thread.

I agree. Just not sure why you're quoting me about it.

I interpreted the lock the thread comment as being due to the win on Saturday night. If not my mistake.

Ah gotcha!

Look it is hard to keep up with exactly where the bitching starts and stops with you guys. 35 point flogging and people still want to yeet a bloke.

Tough crowd.

When you've been knocked out of three consecutive World Cups by a side that you put 50+ on earlier in the year you learn to take those wins with a grain of salt.

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@rotated said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

@nta said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):

Guess we can lock this thread then?

The title was too long, and the content of the first post, really.

One try that wasn't a break out from their own half wasn't it? Conceded three.

Problem solved.

Huh?

A shit ton of broken field tries in a single game doesn't address the main issues discussed in this thread.

I agree. Just not sure why you're quoting me about it.

I interpreted the lock the thread comment as being due to the win on Saturday night. If not my mistake.

Ah gotcha!

Look it is hard to keep up with exactly where the bitching starts and stops with you guys. 35 point flogging and people still want to yeet a bloke.

Tough crowd.

When you've been knocked out of three consecutive World Cups by a side that you put 50+ on earlier in the year you learn to take those wins with a grain of salt.

Never put your gift in a horse's mouth. Or something.