All Blacks 2022

@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2022:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:

@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2022:

Use to really enjoy those tours where we use to play midweek games against provincial teams, it also gave the blokes in the B team a chance to earn a spot in the test 15 or on the bench... unfortunately in the professional era we don't really have time to fit those games in.

And the domestic teams can't spare the time or the expense anyway

True, just miss those type of tours.

I wonder how much money is made off of Lions tours, enough of an incentive to do it I'm picking. I would have thought if we can send a junior ABs team somewhere we could just send a larger ABs squad on NH tour for example, and play midweek. I wonder if it is resistance from local clubs (my guess) or from our side? Maybe the TV revenue isn't enough. But I would have thought an ABs vs Llanelli type scenario would be of interest. The current 3 or 4 test match only tours feel quite disjointed

@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:

@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2022:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:

@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2022:

Use to really enjoy those tours where we use to play midweek games against provincial teams, it also gave the blokes in the B team a chance to earn a spot in the test 15 or on the bench... unfortunately in the professional era we don't really have time to fit those games in.

And the domestic teams can't spare the time or the expense anyway

True, just miss those type of tours.

I wonder how much money is made off of Lions tours, enough of an incentive to do it I'm picking. I would have thought if we can send a junior ABs team somewhere we could just send a larger ABs squad on NH tour for example, and play midweek. I wonder if it is resistance from local clubs (my guess) or from our side? Maybe the TV revenue isn't enough. But I would have thought an ABs vs Llanelli type scenario would be of interest. The current 3 or 4 test match only tours feel quite disjointed

Reckon supporters would really enjoy the ABs playing a midweek game against a team like LIanelli, these games give a tour a better balance - just play against the top provincial or club teams, also I suppose midweek games don't have to be played on every tour... as you say there's are a few other factors to be considered as well, this format can only be a good thing for rugby.

@nzbloke
And what you'd think of midweek matches against teams like the English Saxons, Ireland A or the French Barbarians ?

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:

@nzbloke
And what you'd think of midweek matches against teams like the English Saxons, Ireland A or the French Barbarians ?

I don't think midweek games are even worth thinking about against anyone, and teams like Ireland A, Saxons etc even worse, I remember when ABs would play French selections , not ideal.

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:

@nzbloke
And what you'd think of midweek matches against teams like the English Saxons, Ireland A or the French Barbarians ?

much like we dont need more competitions, we dont need more teams (IMHO), playing against club team mid week contributes to the history..or even mana if you will.. of these existing teams...which is good for rugby...much less so for these teams that end up getting cobbled together

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:

@nzbloke
And what you'd think of midweek matches against teams like the English Saxons, Ireland A or the French Barbarians ?

much like we dont need more competitions, we dont need more teams (IMHO), playing against club team mid week contributes to the history..or even mana if you will.. of these existing teams...which is good for rugby...much less so for these teams that end up getting cobbled together

Part of it is only about past history, what it does is gives midweek players a better chance of earning a spot in the top AB squad between tests... pretty big squads are taken on tours anyway, so adding a few more isn't going to make much diff, also midweek matches don't have to be played on every tour.

@nzbloke yeah, i'd agreed midweek games were good for the touring team, the comment was just about who they play

@dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:

@nzbloke
And what you'd think of midweek matches against teams like the English Saxons, Ireland A or the French Barbarians ?

I don't think midweek games are even worth thinking about against anyone, and teams like Ireland A, Saxons etc even worse, I remember when ABs would play French selections , not ideal.

It has to be predominantly club teams. Not composite teams.

@dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:

@nzbloke
And what you'd think of midweek matches against teams like the English Saxons, Ireland A or the French Barbarians ?

I don't think midweek games are even worth thinking about against anyone, and teams like Ireland A, Saxons etc even worse, I remember when ABs would play French selections , not ideal.

It has to be predominantly club teams. Not composite teams.

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:

@nzbloke yeah, i'd agreed midweek games were good for the touring team, the comment was just about who they play

They'd have to play against the really top club teams in the UK etc

@nzbloke ...literally what i said

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:

@nzbloke ...literally what i said

We have mentioned that before anyway, no bloody good playing the weaker clubs, the midweek players get no benefit out of it

I made the proposal of composite teams because the clubs would be reluctant to add a midweek game to their heavy schedule. If they have to, they would probably field a "B" team.

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:

I made the proposal of composite teams because the clubs would be reluctant to add a midweek game to their heavy schedule. If they have to, they would probably field a "B" team.

That is the spectre of the pro game. No one plays for the glory anymore. Even if the players wanted to the owners won't want to risk their valuable assets in a non league game

The last time the ABs played a NH club team (Munster in 2008) it was a second-string team missing all of their Irish international players. Nearly lost though!

@dan54

Dan, the limited value we would get out of them probably means they are not worth doing.

I see value in dirtrackers playing NH sides but the difficulty in agreeing terms with a club, strength of opposition, ABs taking an enlarged squad for these games means it would be hard to justify.

I think at the moment, we have a lot of players who are inexperienced in playing international rugby up north so it may be worth a short term benefit until normal service resumes (which should be now tbh)

Personally think we have enough to worry about with shoehorning enough experience into players like Blackadder, De Groot, Papalii and Tukehui plus others to worry about their tier below them just yet.

@bovidae

Didn’t Munster win the haka though!?

@dagrubster said in All Blacks 2022:

@dan54

Dan, the limited value we would get out of them probably means they are not worth doing.

I see value in dirtrackers playing NH sides but the difficulty in agreeing terms with a club, strength of opposition, ABs taking an enlarged squad for these games means it would be hard to justify.

I think at the moment, we have a lot of players who are inexperienced in playing international rugby up north so it may be worth a short term benefit until normal service resumes (which should be now tbh)

Personally think we have enough to worry about with shoehorning enough experience into players like Blackadder, De Groot, Papalii and Tukehui plus others to worry about their tier below them just yet.

Agree, though I not sure if playing against club teams will give them a lot of experience at playing test teams, just gives them experience at playing along side other second string ABs. I wonder if there would not be more value in getting NZ Áá going and them playing USA,Canada etc etc.

@dan54

USA and Canada would probably lose to a top European side shorn of their internationals.

I see value in NZA touring the nth hemisphere clubs. Let’s face it, rugby in the north is leading the way at the moment so there would be a lot of value in getting that exposure for NZ players who have probably only played against NZ and Aus super rugby sides to date…

@dagrubster said in All Blacks 2022:

@dan54

USA and Canada would probably lose to a top European side shorn of their internationals.

I see value in NZA touring the nth hemisphere clubs. Let’s face it, rugby in the north is leading the way at the moment so there would be a lot of value in getting that exposure for NZ players who have probably only played against NZ and Aus super rugby sides to date…

Mate I couldn't agree more about the strength of Clubs sides in Europe, hell I watch games every week, I thinking more of the good of international rugby, ie USA, Canada etc.

I see Oli Jäger made the team of the week.

What are the chances of him being called up in July?

And by whom!? Would he choose the ABs over Ireland?

@dagrubster said in All Blacks 2022:

I see Oli Jäger made the team of the week.

What are the chances of him being called up in July?

And by whom!? Would he choose the ABs over Ireland?

Yeah he has stated his goal is to try and play for The AB’s
He has been in ChCh since 2013
At 26 years old
192 cm
128 Kg he’s big enough

Paywalled but it looks like the useless fluffybunnies including Mooar and McLeod will retain their positions till 2023.

lol if true

where do i get those KPIs?

@akan004 said in All Blacks 2022:

Paywalled but it looks like the useless fluffybunnies including Mooar and McLeod will retain their positions till 2023.

View embedded content

Same old Shit under these clowns then.

it's kinda shit we will never know what went on in the review because i would love to hear the questions and answers.

Unbelievable incompetence, signing these fuckwits up before Northern tour

Strangely, NZ Rugby did not announce it last year but the Herald understands Mooar, Plumtree, Feek and defence coach Scott McLeod all re-signed through to the 2023 World Cup not long after head coach Foster was granted his two-year extension last August.

The assistant coaches have now survived the review, and avoided NZ Rugby having to fork out potential pay-outs..

@machpants said in All Blacks 2022:

Unbelievable incompetence, signing these fuckwits up before Northern tour

Strangely, NZ Rugby did not announce it last year but the Herald understands Mooar, Plumtree, Feek and defence coach Scott McLeod all re-signed through to the 2023 World Cup not long after head coach Foster was granted his two-year extension last August.

The assistant coaches have now survived the review, and avoided NZ Rugby having to fork out potential pay-outs..

loooooooooooooooool

deadset how fucking shit have the NZRU become at high performance?

No wonder they were pushing hard for the Silver Lake deal, it'll be worth half as much in 12 months.

@machpants what's the point in having a review? Even that butt covering exercise wastes resources.

@akan004

New Zealand Rugby's appetite for major personnel change appears minimal with the All Blacks and Black Ferns likely to retain their status quo coaches.

All Blacks coach Ian Foster and Black Ferns counterpart Glenn Moore have fronted NZ Rugby's high-performance executives in recent days ahead of today's board meeting where the respective reviews into their side's 2021 campaigns will be formally tabled.

For the All Blacks, after successive defeats against Ireland and France to finish a season that featured 12 wins and three losses (their worst record since 2009) their review assumed a dark cloud. Weaknesses across the board — including the game drivers' inability to switch from Plan A to B in those final two assignments and cope with the suffocating Northern Hemisphere style — were highlighted, but from a management perspective there will be no casualties despite critical player feedback in some areas.

While Foster is said to have largely reviewed well, All Blacks assistant coaches Brad Mooar (attack), John Plumtree (forwards) and to a lesser extent Greg Feek (scrum) were heavily scrutinised. In each case NZ Rugby has, however, opted to pursue the development rather than termination option.

From an attacking perspective the All Blacks scored 101 tries last year to break the single season record of 92 tries set by Argentina in 2003. Those figures were, though, seriously skewed by the All Blacks amassing centuries against weak Tongan and USA teams.

When confronted with relentless Irish and French defensive pressure, the All Blacks attack failed to fire. Predictability and a lack of evolution were evident.

The forward pack's struggles formed another continuing source of frustration. Just as England dominated the All Blacks in their 2019 World Cup semifinal, they were again largely overpowered up front by Ireland and France.

The Springboks troubled the All Blacks with their physical onslaught at the breakdown too. France claimed two maul tries in Paris and the All Blacks lineout wobbled at times, leaving lingering concerns about their ability to deliver a front-foot platform against formidable packs.

Strangely, NZ Rugby did not announce it last year but the Herald understands Mooar, Plumtree, Feek and defence coach Scott McLeod all re-signed through to the 2023 World Cup not long after head coach Foster was granted his two-year extension last August.

The assistant coaches have now survived the review, and avoided NZ Rugby having to fork out potential pay-outs.

Joe Schmidt's anticipated arrival into the All Blacks coaching team will ask hard questions to challenge established strategies and selections this year. Foster has been open about embracing Schmidt's knowledge of the northern game, and his views on All Blacks' weaknesses having enjoyed success with Ireland against New Zealand.

At this stage, though, Schmidt is not expected to travel abroad with the All Blacks and doesn't officially start his selector/analyst role until August following Ireland's three test July tour of New Zealand.

While the All Blacks review identified the need for specific coaching improvements, subsequent feedback is understood to have challenged senior players to accept their share of responsibility, too.

The All Blacks end-of-year tour squad featured nine players aged 30 years or older, sparking concerns in some quarters that number is too high with the World Cup still 18 months away.

If you were one of the assistant coaches and you got a really bad review - coaching a national icon - and you knew by in large you deserved it, wouldn't you resign - rather than hanging in to likely fail at5 the big dance, or for a sacking and cheque?

I am glad the finger got pointed at the players too.

NZ national sports teams aren't as ruthless in replacing assistant coaches compared to overseas sports teams in the US and Europe.

@chris-b said in All Blacks 2022:

If you were one of the assistant coaches and you got a really bad review - coaching a national icon - and you knew by in large you deserved it, wouldn't you resign - rather than hanging in to likely fail at5 the big dance, or for a sacking and cheque?

You would think so, I wonder how much of the subsequent feedback challenging senior players infuenced the decision to keep them on. Perhaps they are hanging on to a narrative that says the players didnt follow the plan ( or plan B ) they gave them.

Not that the public would have any idea if one existed to start with!

@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2022:

While Foster is said to have largely reviewed well, All Blacks assistant coaches Brad Mooar (attack), John Plumtree (forwards) and to a lesser extent Greg Feek (scrum) were heavily scrutinised.

What about McLeod and the bend-but-don't-break-it-breaks-anyway defence?

@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2022:

embracing Schmidt's knowledge of the northern game, and his views on All Blacks' weaknesses

Fuck, we have a list already, I expect a trained eye like Schmidt would have a longer more detailed one...whether this coaching crew can take criticism and adapt remains to be seen...evidence to date doesn't look likely

@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2022:

@akan004

New Zealand Rugby's appetite for major personnel change appears minimal with the All Blacks and Black Ferns likely to retain their status quo coaches.

All Blacks coach Ian Foster and Black Ferns counterpart Glenn Moore have fronted NZ Rugby's high-performance executives in recent days ahead of today's board meeting where the respective reviews into their side's 2021 campaigns will be formally tabled.

For the All Blacks, after successive defeats against Ireland and France to finish a season that featured 12 wins and three losses (their worst record since 2009) their review assumed a dark cloud. Weaknesses across the board — including the game drivers' inability to switch from Plan A to B in those final two assignments and cope with the suffocating Northern Hemisphere style — were highlighted, but from a management perspective there will be no casualties despite critical player feedback in some areas.

While Foster is said to have largely reviewed well, All Blacks assistant coaches Brad Mooar (attack), John Plumtree (forwards) and to a lesser extent Greg Feek (scrum) were heavily scrutinised. In each case NZ Rugby has, however, opted to pursue the development rather than termination option.

From an attacking perspective the All Blacks scored 101 tries last year to break the single season record of 92 tries set by Argentina in 2003. Those figures were, though, seriously skewed by the All Blacks amassing centuries against weak Tongan and USA teams.

When confronted with relentless Irish and French defensive pressure, the All Blacks attack failed to fire. Predictability and a lack of evolution were evident.

The forward pack's struggles formed another continuing source of frustration. Just as England dominated the All Blacks in their 2019 World Cup semifinal, they were again largely overpowered up front by Ireland and France.

The Springboks troubled the All Blacks with their physical onslaught at the breakdown too. France claimed two maul tries in Paris and the All Blacks lineout wobbled at times, leaving lingering concerns about their ability to deliver a front-foot platform against formidable packs.

Strangely, NZ Rugby did not announce it last year but the Herald understands Mooar, Plumtree, Feek and defence coach Scott McLeod all re-signed through to the 2023 World Cup not long after head coach Foster was granted his two-year extension last August.

The assistant coaches have now survived the review, and avoided NZ Rugby having to fork out potential pay-outs.

Joe Schmidt's anticipated arrival into the All Blacks coaching team will ask hard questions to challenge established strategies and selections this year. Foster has been open about embracing Schmidt's knowledge of the northern game, and his views on All Blacks' weaknesses having enjoyed success with Ireland against New Zealand.

At this stage, though, Schmidt is not expected to travel abroad with the All Blacks and doesn't officially start his selector/analyst role until August following Ireland's three test July tour of New Zealand.

While the All Blacks review identified the need for specific coaching improvements, subsequent feedback is understood to have challenged senior players to accept their share of responsibility, too.

The All Blacks end-of-year tour squad featured nine players aged 30 years or older, sparking concerns in some quarters that number is too high with the World Cup still 18 months away.

Who wrote? Pretty on to it methinks.

@booboo It is the text of a paywalled article in the Herald by Liam Napier

@higgins said in All Blacks 2022:

@booboo It is the text of a paywalled article in the Herald by Liam Napier

Thanks @Higgins