All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test

@Crucial said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial im not sure i follow...you can stand behind you own ruck and not be offside...if anything that might make it worse, its not even a clean out...he's just thumped someone off the ball

SB is touching the ruck so doesn’t have to be behind the last player the way refs rule this (eg guards).
Ireland 6 is also “bound” by a touch. If he picks up the ball when he unbinds he is fair game to SB as the ruck has finished.
Unfortunately the timing was out. SB was offside because he had a crack early not because of where he was standing as many keep saying.

He can't pick up the ball, as you can't use your hands when you are in the ruck. As soon as a player is 'unbound' the player must then get back onside to grab the ball or tackle a player

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Dan54 I agree, no card, however, he was mere millimetres/milliseconds away from ANOTHER red card, and I expect that one woulda been for 6 plus weeks with his history.

Sure you can argue plenty of incidents are close to red cards, but that was closer than many, glad it lead to nothing, however if he had been carded most eoulda said dumb arse and moved on.

The main issue is, he didn't even need to do it, given he was well off side before he moved anyway...had he been on side he'd not have been in a position to have a crack as he did.

I understand what you are saying taniwha. my thoughts are well mere millimetres from a red cards is a little overtop, but it may of been within centimetres or whatever, but you can't play the game thinking I can't get involved in case I get a long stand down, you then are not worth your place in team as you playing with handbrake. I in no way suggesting you do silly stuff or anything, but if you are selected to play a test, I really believe you have to play 100% or not play at all. Do we want any player being selected second guessing themselves before doing anything? I don't want us too.

@Dan54 in that situation, it wasnt like a split second decision that he mis-timed and accidentally collected the guys head like so many of the cards we have seen this year...he was in an off side position, both his height and where he was attacking, he was always going to be hitting high on the opposition

Risk vs reward, which in that case, risk far outweighed the reward...but, he got lucky, lucky the Irish player ducked his head when he did, meaning nothing came of it.

I like him as a player, think he brings alot to the table, but he has cost us before, and it doesnt appear he has learnt a great deal, there is a fine line between controlled aggression and stupidity, he seems to be treading with a wide stance.

I hope he doesnt do it again, or worse still, cost us again.

SB just gets off on being the "hard" (but rather stupid) man.
He can't get the Bakkies Botha mentality out of his head.
He's really gotta rein it in, it's happening too frequently and he's a bloody good player right now.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

In breaking news, Cane’s injury from earlier this season has flared up and he’s been ruled out, Whitelock has caught COVID, Ardie has symptoms - Scott Barrett has been named AB captain

Aaron Smith?
BB?

@Machpants said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Dan54 im sure there are others but you really are the first person ive "met" that would have been surprised if a card was given for that based on similar rulings

this is what is so frustrating, this is just a penalty but we see cards given for things like knock downs

I've never seen a card for a knock down, now you're just making stuff up!

Love your work. "Down" is not illegal.

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Machpants ive 100% seen a card for "deliberate knock down/on"...and it it wasn't even down, NPC game a couple of years ago, the Otago player reaches and pops the ball up...flys well out of his reach...runs and dives to regather but misses, yellow card, didn't have realistic chance of successfully intercepting

Just noting, as above, "down" is not illegal. Forward/on ... yes.

Become a thing because of wrong words in commentary.

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Machpants i think its clear i was talking about knock on, i just used the term "down" because, knocking it up can be argued there is a chance to intercept but where it cant really if its knocked straight down

should have known someone would be a pedant and point out "the laws say knock ON"

And it wasn't me

As noted, idiots in commentary describing it wrong and too many peeps thinking knocking the ball down is illegal.

@Kirwan said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

Last thing from me on the Scott Barrett non offence. The Ref saw it as Shoulder on Shoulder so no card,the judiciary didn't see it as a citing offence.
So the debate about an incident that was deemed Ok by the people who really matter is a complete waste of time.No one can change the facts it was not a penalty,But the offside by SB was.

holy shit uncircle the wagons cantabs

absolutely no one here is saying it was a fucking red card. no one.

plenty of reasons it was dumb. and it was a penalty. So there's your first proof it was dumb.

Well we have a poster way up this thread saying SB should never be picked in the ABs again and should have been Red carded,massive over reaction so scroll through the whole thread.

quote it so we can have a laugh

Scroll through and see it, I had my say on it I don't want to call the dude out,Its not in my nature to squeal on people.

i've read the whole thread and you are talking shit

No, somebody did say it. A few beers in I would imagine.

I imagine the posters defending SB here would have a different option of it was Nepo being that stupid. Both have similar red card brain farts, and poor clean out technique.

As for the comment about going and watching League, a very real possibility of us playing with 13 if those two don't improve this area of their game.

Crusaders ...

So ... let's move on.

How's our confidence levels?

Just cruised in by 23 points.

Are we back on track and 23 points better than them? Or did we get lucky and take our chances while they didn't?

How many tries did they leave out on the track?

And how easy did that first try of theirs look?

Given @ACT-Crusader 's talk of all the COVID in the ranks and losing our 2x 7s and all our skippers ... assuming for half a second it's true... where would a scenario like that leave us?

Can the Irish get better? Many touring teams take a game to settle into their pattern (I don't count the dirty dirties v Maori - they're a separate squad).

Is Sexton is ok?

Have the ABs flattered to deceive again?

I (whilst I expect us to win... never ever think we'll lose) just have some reservations about this game. Think it will be close and we'll play poorly, and the Fozzie is fat brigade will be reinvigorated.

Thoughts?

@booboo said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

So ... let's move on.

How's our confidence levels?

Just cruised in by 23 points.

Are we back on track and 23 points better than them? Or did we get lucky and take our chances while they didn't?

How many tries did they leave out on the track?

And how easy did that first try of theirs look?

Given @ACT-Crusader 's talk of all the COVID in the ranks and losing our 2x 7s and all our skippers ... assuming for half a second it's true... where would a scenario like that leave us?

Can the Irish get better? Many touring teams take a game to settle into their pattern (I don't count the dirty dirties v Maori - they're a separate squad).

Is Sexton is ok?

Have the ABs flattered to deceive again?

I (whilst I expect us to win... never ever think we'll lose) just have some reservations about this game. Think it will be close and we'll play poorly, and the Fozzie is fat brigade will be reinvigorated.

Thoughts?

Both teams have plenty of room to improve. I was encouraged by our effort and clarity of tactics. As I've said previously we need to up our defensive intensity, improve our strength at the breakdown and our field kicking

@booboo said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Machpants ive 100% seen a card for "deliberate knock down/on"...and it it wasn't even down, NPC game a couple of years ago, the Otago player reaches and pops the ball up...flys well out of his reach...runs and dives to regather but misses, yellow card, didn't have realistic chance of successfully intercepting

Just noting, as above, "down" is not illegal. Forward/on ... yes.

Become a thing because of wrong words in commentary.

I think some at least use down as I did…only becomes a problem when it hits the ground or someone else, you can knock the ball forward…and regather it with no issue ‍️

@booboo said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

So ... let's move on.

How's our confidence levels?

Just cruised in by 23 points.

Are we back on track and 23 points better than them? Or did we get lucky and take our chances while they didn't?

How many tries did they leave out on the track?

And how easy did that first try of theirs look?

Given @ACT-Crusader 's talk of all the COVID in the ranks and losing our 2x 7s and all our skippers ... assuming for half a second it's true... where would a scenario like that leave us?

Can the Irish get better? Many touring teams take a game to settle into their pattern (I don't count the dirty dirties v Maori - they're a separate squad).

Is Sexton is ok?

Have the ABs flattered to deceive again?

I (whilst I expect us to win... never ever think we'll lose) just have some reservations about this game. Think it will be close and we'll play poorly, and the Fozzie is fat brigade will be reinvigorated.

Thoughts?

My head says Ireland will come out fired-up and it will be a close game.

I want us to absorb that pressure, stay calm and focussed with minimal errors like Saturday. There will be periods when we play poorly due to Irish pressure, but If they can weather those periods and regain control, then that is progress for me.

Our set pieces were good last week but I'd be happy to hold parity in the scrum as Ireland will have been pissed off at being owned there. Would love to see Reiko with more attacking opportunities & think we need to up our kicking game.

But my heart wants to believe we'll blitz Ireland and be up by 2 tries inside 10 minutes...

@Bovidae said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

If SB is cited and found guilty there will have to be at least one change to the starting XV.

Lol nope. He's fine. What's a little head contact?

@booboo I have it on good authority that my post was a wind up.

I would like to see the same starting lineup, assuming the same outs are out.

Given they packed PGS at no8, I would hope they give Sotutu a go off the bench instead.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo I have it on good authority that my post was a wind up.

I would like to see the same starting lineup, assuming the same outs are out.

Given they packed PGS at no8, I would hope they give Sotutu a go off the bench instead.

It was such a lazy post too, didn't even name the rest of the side.

I'm going for NZ by 40+ after that shitehawkery last weekend.
Players going down like ninepins. Flying add-in players too late.
It's a shit-show from start to finish.
If Ireland manage to win a match from here, I promise never to visit NZ.

@Derm-McCrum said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

I'm going for NZ by 40+ after that shitehawkery last weekend.
Players going down like ninepins. Flying add-in players too late.
It's a shit-show from start to finish.
If Ireland manage to win a match from here, I promise never to visit NZ.

I didn't realise. That sounds like Black Craps level planning!

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Machpants ive 100% seen a card for "deliberate knock down/on"...and it it wasn't even down, NPC game a couple of years ago, the Otago player reaches and pops the ball up...flys well out of his reach...runs and dives to regather but misses, yellow card, didn't have realistic chance of successfully intercepting

Just noting, as above, "down" is not illegal. Forward/on ... yes.

Become a thing because of wrong words in commentary.

I think some at least use down as I did…only becomes a problem when it hits the ground or someone else, you can knock the ball forward…and regather it with no issue ‍️

True but that's not a knock on.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@booboo I have it on good authority that my post was a wind up.

I would like to see the same starting lineup, assuming the same outs are out.

Given they packed PGS at no8, I would hope they give Sotutu a go off the bench instead.

I did get that ...

... assuming for half a second it's true...

Maybe I should have said

... assuming for half a second it could come true...

Sillier things have happened

@Derm-McCrum said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

I'm going for NZ by 40+ after that shitehawkery last weekend.
Players going down like ninepins. Flying add-in players too late.
It's a shit-show from start to finish.
If Ireland manage to win a match from here, I promise never to visit NZ.

I can see you are hurting but Ireland were in it for large parts of the game and the 14 point turnaround by Reece's intercept/sexton injury really changed the flow of the game. The first Irish try was pure sex and they should have scored several more but were held up, knock ons etc.

Ireland had more possession and territory; they just need to be smarter with less errors and they can compete with the AB's. We will need to be on our game to win by that margin again.

@NTA said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

If SB is cited and found guilty there will have to be at least one change to the starting XV.

Lol nope. He's fine. What's a little head contact?

What head contact?

@Derm-McCrum said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

I'm going for NZ by 40+ after that shitehawkery last weekend.
Players going down like ninepins. Flying add-in players too late.
It's a shit-show from start to finish.
If Ireland manage to win a match from here, I promise never to visit NZ.

Yeah held up over the line FIVE times, means the score certainly wasn’t indicative. Add in the mentioned intercept, plus Beaudies one too, I think the game will be close as, last time it was a DC drop goal, and the thrid will be the smashing.

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Dan54 in that situation, it wasnt like a split second decision that he mis-timed and accidentally collected the guys head like so many of the cards we have seen this year...he was in an off side position, both his height and where he was attacking, he was always going to be hitting high on the opposition

Risk vs reward, which in that case, risk far outweighed the reward...but, he got lucky, lucky the Irish player ducked his head when he did, meaning nothing came of it.

I like him as a player, think he brings alot to the table, but he has cost us before, and it doesnt appear he has learnt a great deal, there is a fine line between controlled aggression and stupidity, he seems to be treading with a wide stance.

I hope he doesnt do it again, or worse still, cost us again.

I'm not sure if there is much of a duck, it just looks like Scott's contact makes his head fold in.

I think there is some head contact before hitting the shoulder, but I think the most dangerous part is how it ends up being like a crusher tackle. You can see Scott's weight on top of O'Mahony's head/neck which jams his head in. Not surprised when O'Mahony gets up he clutches the back of his neck a couple of times.

Add in the no arms, offside and coming from the side, and it's just all round silly.

Far out I'm glad we control World Rugby as that deserves a citing

@Dice said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Dan54 in that situation, it wasnt like a split second decision that he mis-timed and accidentally collected the guys head like so many of the cards we have seen this year...he was in an off side position, both his height and where he was attacking, he was always going to be hitting high on the opposition

Risk vs reward, which in that case, risk far outweighed the reward...but, he got lucky, lucky the Irish player ducked his head when he did, meaning nothing came of it.

I like him as a player, think he brings alot to the table, but he has cost us before, and it doesnt appear he has learnt a great deal, there is a fine line between controlled aggression and stupidity, he seems to be treading with a wide stance.

I hope he doesnt do it again, or worse still, cost us again.

I'm not sure if there is much of a duck, it just looks like Scott's contact makes his head fold in.
View image

I think there is some head contact before hitting the shoulder, but I think most dangerous part is how it ends up being like a crusher tackle. You can see Scott's weight on top of O'Mahony's head/neck which jams his head in. Not surprised when O'Mahony gets up he clutches the back of his neck a couple of times.

Add in the no arms, offside and coming from the side, and it's just all round silly.

as i said before, i'd be pretty annoyed if someone did that to us

what. a. Dumb fluffybunny.

surely we have someone young and up and coming to replace Vaa'i...what does Tuipulotu bring to the table when we're building towards the next world cup

@Kiwiwomble The young up and comers are Vaai and Lord. Pari Pari is probably another (injured).

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Kiwiwomble The young up and comers are Vaai and Lord. Pari Pari is probably another (injured).

The Canterbury lock Gallagher looked good from what I saw of him.

Otherwise, it's probably Dickson from the Māori. SB back to lock then.

@KiwiMurph they've shown theyer going to esy the youngs guys in so why not identify the next young guys, just dont see the logic in replacing a youngs guys with an "old" one

So we are past the time in which Scott Barrett could be cited?

@Kiwiwomble "Experience".

@Frank Yes.

@Stargazer said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Kiwiwomble "Experience".

....but we didn;t feel we needed that spot to be filled with much experience before

Tuipulotu is 29. The next 2-3 years should be prime for a tight five player

If you think someone else is better that makes sense.

Claiming we need a younger player because we're building for the RWC is silly

@Frank said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Kiwiwomble The young up and comers are Vaai and Lord. Pari Pari is probably another (injured).

The Canterbury lock Gallagher looks good in what what I saw of him.

He's 20 years old. I'm a fan but let's not rush him in too early. He could be a great candidate for the All Black XV at the end of the year.

I'm not a huge fan of Tuipulotu as an AB but I can see the logic in this situation where you are coming in halfway through test week 2 of a 3 match series.

From Stuff: (I have corrected their typo).

Highlanders Josh Dickson and Shannon Frizell are training with the All Blacks but are not part of the official squad.

@Bovidae Hmmm that suggests Ioane's foot might still be a problem