Foster's Firsts.

@Chester-Draws said in Foster's Firsts.:

I note that almost all those coaches with poorer results got the chop before 4 years. As should have Foster (because at that point his results were even worse).

Some of those guys only had one losing tour, and then were axed.
The series loss to Ireland would have been the end of a coach in previous times.

Different era. Coaches were appointed according to the touring schedule and being coach for more than a couple of years was very unusual. Coaching GOAT Fred Allen (won all 14 Tests) was only in the job for 2 years and JJ Stewart coached for 3 more years after losing a series at home to England in '73.

The closest parallel to today is Vodanovich who was replaced by the 1970's Coaching Jesus Bob Duff.

@Chester-Draws said in Foster's Firsts.:

I note that almost all those coaches with poorer results got the chop before 4 years. As should have Foster (because at that point his results were even worse).

Some of those guys only had one losing tour, and then were axed. The series loss to Ireland would have been the end of a coach in previous times.

Different times for sure.

They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.

Worth pointing out a very good Scots team that had just won a Grand Slam and contained all timers like David Sole, John Jeffrey, Finlay Calder, Gary Armstrong and the Hastings bros.

@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Machpants said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Nevorian said in Foster's Firsts.:

Foz could be first AB coach to have win ratio below 70% ? Might have to fact check that one

Nah nowhere near (from 2022)
View image

Fred Allen is missing and had a 100% record from 14 Tests. Never lost a game IIRC and had one draw.

There's some names there like Ivan Vodanovich & JJ Stewart I really don't want to ever see again.... And we think the last few years have been a bit shit.

Yeah I only included the 70% and less which is relevant to the incorrect statement

@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:

They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.

IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.

Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.

Bryce Rope (1983 — 1984) 9 1 2 12 75
Bob Duff (1972 — 1973) 6 1 1 8 75
John Hart (1996 — 1999) 31 1 9 41 76
Jack Gleeson (1977 — 1978) 10 0 3 13 77
Brian Lochore (1985 — 1987) 14 1 3 18 78
Neil McPhail (1961, 1963 — 1965) 16 2 2 20 80
John Mitchell (2002 — 2003) 23 1 4 28 82
Peter Burke (1981 — 1982) 9 0 2 11 82
Graham Henry (2004 — 2011) 88 0 15 103 85
Alex Wyllie (1988 — 1991) 25 1 3 29 86
Steve Hansen (2012 — 2019) 93 4 10 107 87
Fred Allen (1966 — 1968) 14 0 0 14 100
Ron Bush (1962) 2 0 0 2 100
Dick Everest (1957) 2 0 0 2 100
Len Clode (1951) 3 0 0 3 100

@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:

@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:

They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.

IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.

Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.

Why was Buck the scapegoat?

Everyone knows all about “Bring back Buck” but why was it him and no one else ?

Henry and Hansen's records really stand out given the number of games. Absolutely incredible success during the professional era. Not saying we can't improve but we probably have to accept we are unlikely to see win percentages like that again over so many matches.

@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:

@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:

They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.

IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.

Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.

Why was Buck the scapegoat?

Everyone knows all about “Bring back Buck” but why was it him and no one else ?

Million Dollar Question

@MN5 because Gallagher, Ridge and Schuster had all signed for rugby league clubs and the Nzrfu feared Zinzan Brooke would be next. In order to keep Zinny they had to drop Buck who was getting on in age anyway

@No-Quarter said in Foster's Firsts.:

Henry and Hansen's records really stand out given the number of games. Absolutely incredible success during the professional era. Not saying we can't improve but we probably have to accept we are unlikely to see win percentages like that again over so many matches.

Yeah no way little old NZ is getting back to that dominance, but the way that work & excellence has been lost so fast with the weak NZR unable to move on beyond those two coaches and protégée is terrible

Much like Vodanovich following Allen...

@No-Quarter said in Foster's Firsts.:

Henry and Hansen's records really stand out given the number of games. Absolutely incredible success during the professional era. Not saying we can't improve but we probably have to accept we are unlikely to see win percentages like that again over so many matches.

Golden generation too. How many (in their positions) GOATs were there?

@Catogrande

If you look at the 2015 squad a couple nailed on and probably another 9 that would be in the conversation.

@dogmeat said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Catogrande

If you look at the 2015 squad a couple nailed on and probably another 9 that would be in the conversation.

The 12 and 8 went ok too

@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:

@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:

They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.

IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.

Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.

Why was Buck the scapegoat?

Everyone knows all about “Bring back Buck” but why was it him and no one else ?

There were rumblings about him getting the arse before that because Zinzan Brooke had more hype than even Ethan Blackadder at the time and Buck was getting long in the tooth.

@Machpants said in Foster's Firsts.:

Bryce Rope (1983 — 1984) 9 1 2 12 75
Bob Duff (1972 — 1973) 6 1 1 8 75
John Hart (1996 — 1999) 31 1 9 41 76
Jack Gleeson (1977 — 1978) 10 0 3 13 77
Brian Lochore (1985 — 1987) 14 1 3 18 78
Neil McPhail (1961, 1963 — 1965) 16 2 2 20 80
John Mitchell (2002 — 2003) 23 1 4 28 82
Peter Burke (1981 — 1982) 9 0 2 11 82
Graham Henry (2004 — 2011) 88 0 15 103 85
Alex Wyllie (1988 — 1991) 25 1 3 29 86
Steve Hansen (2012 — 2019) 93 4 10 107 87
Fred Allen (1966 — 1968) 14 0 0 14 100
Ron Bush (1962) 2 0 0 2 100
Dick Everest (1957) 2 0 0 2 100
Len Clode (1951) 3 0 0 3 100

Why so much hate for John Mitchell, I would take 82% WR at the moment.

@chimoaus Maybe because he was an absolute knob

That this is even a possible headline on the Stuff front page:

I thought it was a coaching Masterclass from Fozzie against Namibia. Putting 70 against an international team is some effort

@Donsteppa said in Foster's Firsts.:

That this is even a possible headline on the Stuff front page:

View image

Well they are leading the pool aren't they? Can only beat what is in front of you..

@dogmeat said in Foster's Firsts.:

Much like Vodanovich following Allen...

Or much like that 1970's Coaching-Jesus that was Bob Duff taking over from Vodanovich...

The match against Italy is Fozzie's last chance to get a record with the ABs, maybe his subconcious mind will be leading him towards a loss.

Another Foster first: First AB coach to lose a pool game and get thru to the 1/4 finals.

ABs’ first win against Uruguay.

@sparky said in Foster's Firsts.:

ABs’ first win against Uruguay.

first AB coach NOT to lose to Uruguay :man_shrugging_light_skin_tone:

@Kiwiwomble said in Foster's Firsts.:

@sparky said in Foster's Firsts.:

ABs’ first win against Uruguay.

first AB coach NOT to lose to Uruguay :man_shrugging_light_skin_tone:

100% record!

I'd say "100% against South American opposition" but... well...

@NTA said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Kiwiwomble said in Foster's Firsts.:

@sparky said in Foster's Firsts.:

ABs’ first win against Uruguay.

first AB coach NOT to lose to Uruguay :man_shrugging_light_skin_tone:

100% record!

I'd say "100% against South American opposition" but... well...

At RWCs

@NTA said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Kiwiwomble said in Foster's Firsts.:

@sparky said in Foster's Firsts.:

ABs’ first win against Uruguay.

first AB coach NOT to lose to Uruguay :man_shrugging_light_skin_tone:

100% record!

I'd say "100% against South American opposition" but... well...

we get to say it...its mean when you say it, stick to chat about eddie

@Kiwiwomble said in Foster's Firsts.:

@sparky said in Foster's Firsts.:

ABs’ first win against Uruguay.

first AB coach NOT to lose to Uruguay :man_shrugging_light_skin_tone:

Three records in one night? What's not to like.

@NTA said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Kiwiwomble said in Foster's Firsts.:

@sparky said in Foster's Firsts.:

ABs’ first win against Uruguay.

first AB coach NOT to lose to Uruguay :man_shrugging_light_skin_tone:

100% record!

I'd say "100% against South American opposition" but... well...

Well done on scraping past a 14-strong Portugal, you rampant well-disciplined Aussie conquistadors!

@nostrildamus said in Foster's Firsts.:

@NTA said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Kiwiwomble said in Foster's Firsts.:

@sparky said in Foster's Firsts.:

ABs’ first win against Uruguay.

first AB coach NOT to lose to Uruguay :man_shrugging_light_skin_tone:

100% record!

I'd say "100% against South American opposition" but... well...

Well done on scraping past a 14-strong Portugal, you rampant well-disciplined Aussie conquistadors!

Considering we did it with 13 at one point, I'll take that

Is Foster the first coach to let one of his team get thier leg sliced open?
First AB coach to keep Uruguay scoreless!

He's racking up these firsts.

@NTA said in Foster's Firsts.:

@nostrildamus said in Foster's Firsts.:

@NTA said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Kiwiwomble said in Foster's Firsts.:

@sparky said in Foster's Firsts.:

ABs’ first win against Uruguay.

first AB coach NOT to lose to Uruguay :man_shrugging_light_skin_tone:

Hence my well disciplined comment ..

100% record!

I'd say "100% against South American opposition" but... well...

Well done on scraping past a 14-strong Portugal, you rampant well-disciplined Aussie conquistadors!

Considering we did it with 13 at one point, I'll take that

@Kiwiwomble said in Foster's Firsts.:

@sparky said in Foster's Firsts.:

ABs’ first win against Uruguay.

first AB coach NOT to lose to Uruguay :man_shrugging_light_skin_tone:

@Kiwiwomble said in Foster's Firsts.:

@sparky said in Foster's Firsts.:

ABs’ first win against Uruguay.

first AB coach NOT to lose to Uruguay :man_shrugging_light_skin_tone:

Every abs coach has not lost to Uruguay

@Machpants all right smarty pants

*played a game and not lost

First time All Blacks have been underdogs in a QF.

@chimoaus said in Foster's Firsts.:

First time All Blacks have been underdogs in a QF.

Fair call ...

87 Scotland
91 Canada
95 Scotland
99 err Scotland ... again
03 Seffrica
07 don't recall
11 Argentina
15 France
19 don't recall Ireland (getting muxed ip with semi)

First time NZ have not topped their group - or have I boobooed?

@Catogrande said in Foster's Firsts.:

First time NZ have not topped their group - or have I boobooed?

Has any team ever been unbeaten in their pool and still finished second in it?

@nostrildamus said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Catogrande said in Foster's Firsts.:

First time NZ have not topped their group - or have I boobooed?

Has any team ever been unbeaten in their pool and still finished second in it?

No but teams have lost a game and still finished top