Foster, Robertson etc

@canefan said in Will Foster go?:

@Damo said in Will Foster go?:

I think he will go.

1. NZR have some cash floating around as a result of Silverlake deal. If Foster needs a golden handshake he can get one.

2. Having sold part of their commercial arm they are now accountable to their investment partners - morally if not legally.

3. It's just too obvious that Foster is not the man for the job. Anyone can see that now. Razor on the other hand has an extraordinary record.

4. Foster is unlikely to want to continue given all the vitriol that is coming his way now.

5. Plumtree was shell shocked in his half time interview which was a terrible look.

6. NZR have been here before in 1998. They made.the wrong call that year and won't again.

Wait, did the NZRFU accept the Silverlake deal?!?

I think so, unless I am imagining things.

Google search confirms it was accepted. Not sure of timings though in terms of money changing hands, but that hardly matters.

Another thing ill add which I think hasn't helped is these Japan sabbaticals.

Adds to the temporary feel of the team . Lads fucking off for a year or two, their replacements not knowing if they own the jersey or are keeping it warm. The incumbents coming back underdone and or shadows of their former selves.

If you want to leave and make easy money in Japan, fuck off and don't come back.

@Tim said in Foster must go:

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I'd really like to think it means something. But the cynic in me thinks the comms team are just working on some "holding lines"...

@Tim said in Foster must go:

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They don't want him to field a flood of questions about quitting

@canefan the one from last night (was listening to it this morning) I think the first question was about his.coaching.and he said he only wanted to talk about the game (which was fair enough, even if he knew that was all they will want to talk about)

He sounded broken though.

@canefan said in Foster must go:

@Tim said in Foster must go:

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They don't want him to field a flood of questions about quitting

Not while he is negotiating terms of surrender anyway.

Sounds to me like the lawyers are arguing over the wording of the resignation statement and contract cancellation

@MrDenmore said in Foster must go:

Sounds to me like the lawyers are arguing over the wording of the resignation statement and contract cancellation

Yep. Very plausible.

@KiwiMurph poor Will he deserves better than fat foster

@KiwiMurph Good piece.

That article above was good reading.

I think obviously the current coaching team has to bear some of the blame - there is a lot of talent there and making it all point in the same direction is their fucking job, really. Not like basic skills are lacking.

However, I think in a way Steve Hansen got the golden spot, but was also part of the problem. He was given a very good core of hard-nosed players and just had to make sure things ticked along. IMHO during that time, a form of arrogance entered the AB culture (moreso at the player level, not the management) that was based on the fact that they were winning games simply by scoring more than the opposition.

Sounds obvious, but when your entire game plan is "Beaudy puts in a kick that bounces 40cm from touch then snaps back straight into his hands 5m laterally for him to score" you're going to struggle at some point. When you can recover a deficit simply by scoring a couple of quick tries off individual talent, it masks the defensive issues that may have forced you into that situation.

I equate it to the Wallabies around the turn of the century: when your back line is that fucking good, finding great props in a barely-contested scrum environment isn't a priority.

We can talk all we want about who has the better players, but who has the better team is more important in a team sport. Duh.

"We shouldn't lose to Ireland" is actually problematic thinking.

@NTA Agree totally. They started believing in their own myth and spent too long looking at their own highlight reels. Some reflection needed. And haircuts all around

@NTA said in Foster must go:

"We shouldn't ose to Ireland" is actually problematic thinking.

Rught now we are looking for ways not to lose, rather than how can we win.

@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:

@NTA said in Foster must go:

"We shouldn't ose to Ireland" is actually problematic thinking.

Rught now we are looking for ways not to lose, rather than how can we win.

I think it is a scale of extremes, formed by the rugby culture from top to bottom when it comes to the ABs:

Winning is expected. Winning is usually fairly easy - particularly the decade after RWC2007 when the line was drawn in the sand.

As a result, any loss is met by denial ("you weren't better, we just played shit") or excuses (e.g. Barret's red card in Perth), and an almost childish urge to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There isn't much room in the middle for rational thought. Just my observation.

@NTA Partially right in your observations but we at least can now acknowledge and (almost) accept when we get beaten by better teams on the day eg England tonking the ABs in the last World Cup. What sticks in the craw more than anything is the continual usage of gameplans that have been proven not to work. In times past if things weren't working you had astute rugby brains (Graham Mourie just as one example) on the field that could see that and changed things accordingly. Nowadays Captains seem to rely solely on the instructions coming down via radio from the coaches box and conveyed by the water runners.
Surely players on the field have better "feeling" on how opposition players and tactics are working and can sense minute things like marginal dropping off in speed levels of players as they every so slightly tire much better than the bank of computers that coaches seem to place 100% faith in can ever do. Ditto for members of their own team.

I wonder if we will see any players come out in support of Foster over the next few days/weeks?

@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:

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Shit that's a great article.

Reminds me when I lived in Oslo and the public transport system was a sick joke. There were continual delays and cancellations (which was no fun when it's minus farking 10) and shitty antiquated equipment. Rarely a day went by without some epic fuckup. Yet Norwegians being a passive bunch just accepted it and philosophically said they'd just wait for the next one and those responsible deflected or chided the people complaining because there were other countries that had much worse problems. And that of course was the reason things were so shitty. Zero standards, zero expectations and zero accountability. Eventually things got so bad that they had to do something and it appears they now have their shit together. Hopefully NZ does the same but if my Norwegian experiences are anything to go by things will have to hit absolutely rock bottom before these arrogant cnuts pull their fingers out.

Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article

“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."

From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.

@Chris said in Foster must go:

Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article

“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."

From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.

Robinson can bugger off too

@Chris said in Foster must go:

Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article

“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."

From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.

That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.

That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).

I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.

@Tim said in Foster must go:

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Utter cowardice that he wouldn’t face even our tame journos. This has been a twenty year tradition, another thing that Foster the fat fluffybunny has shat on

@Crucial said in Foster must go:

@Chris said in Foster must go:

Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article

“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."

From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.

That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.

That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).

I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.

We will see if you are right or it is just more smoke and mirrors to deflect any blame.

If he is resigning or being sacked, it would be true to form that Foster and Robinson still make a meal out of that "process" too...

@Crucial said in Foster must go:

@Chris said in Foster must go:

Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article

“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."

From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.

That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.

That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).

I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.

If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.

In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.

New Zealand Rugby boss Mark Robinson has labelled the All Blacks' first home series defeat in 27 years unacceptable and says work will begin immediately with head coach Ian Foster to grasp how the team reached this position.

Robinson's statement came after the All Blacks cancelled a scheduled media conference on Sunday.

One day after the 32-22 third test loss to Ireland in Wellington consigned the All Blacks to their first home series defeat since 1994, a coach was scheduled to front media at their team hotel.

When media arrived, however, they were eventually told the stand-up had been cancelled.

Attempting to address widespread speculation and pressure on Foster and his All Blacks coaching team, Robinson suggested he would be involved in meeting with the team before their two-test tour of South Africa begins on August 7.

"Congratulations to the Irish team for their well-deserved win last night but clearly the performance across the series for the All Blacks was not acceptable as we know they have reflected. We all know there is a huge amount of work to do," Robinson said.

"Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."

I'd also throw in that the Australian experience is instructive: since professionalism the pathways to Test level have been getting narrower, and things like the schools arena are shrinking alarmingly. The change in demographic means Saturday sport is getting gradually overtaken by work, there is less money to go around, and you've got a shrinking grassroots scene where guys just can't/won't play because if they get injured, their lives are fucked.

Talking to Red Beard, the situation around Waikato sounds similar - if you're a kid who is good at rugby, the local Big Rugby School will hoover you up, and warehouse you so another Big Rugby School doesn't get there first. You might make the First XV or not, but you're in the frame for a provincial or even fully professional contract. If you don't get that contract, well you're more likely to leave the sport forever as an active participant, whether playing volunteering, refereeing etc.

See it here all the time. So really the proportion of casual fans is growing, and all they care about is winning. If you're not doing that, where to?

@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:

If he is resigning or being sacked, it would be true to form that Foster and Robinson still make a meal out of that "process" too...

Are the words "Full Support Of The Board" marching toward this thread with unseemly speed?

@Damo said in Foster must go:

@Crucial said in Foster must go:

@Chris said in Foster must go:

Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article

“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."

From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.

That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.

That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).

I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.

If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.

In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.

Correct. And the press conference would have very much got in the way of that. He would have been bombarded with questions that he couldn't answer over and over.
Let the proper process take its course.
There's a brand here for the NZR to try and protect. Chucking Foster in front of the piranhas would have been very damaging.
Oh to be a fly on the wall at NZR HQ today. I'm guessing that Foster and co will have been given space to gather answers to questions raised and will be snuck in the back door tomorrow morning.

@Damo said in Foster must go:

@Crucial said in Foster must go:

@Chris said in Foster must go:

Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article

“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."

From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.

That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.

That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).

I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.

If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.

In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.

I wonder if his contract is governed by NZ employment law? I assume so. He can't be fired if so. Better hope he walks or start a rigorous retraining process....

@NTA said in Foster must go:

@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:

If he is resigning or being sacked, it would be true to form that Foster and Robinson still make a meal out of that "process" too...

Are the words "Full Support Of The Board" marching toward this thread with unseemly speed?

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Fingers crossed. Though I fear the blithering NZRU would use those words too literally...

@canefan said in Foster must go:

@Damo said in Foster must go:

@Crucial said in Foster must go:

@Chris said in Foster must go:

Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article

“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."

From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.

That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.

That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).

I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.

If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.

In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.

I wonder if his contract is governed by NZ employment law? I assume so. He can't be fired if so. Better hope he walks or start a rigorous retraining process....

He's an independent contractor . Give the man some credit, if he is asked to go he is very unlikely to take them to court. His contract will have clauses around cancellation.

@canefan said in Foster must go:

@Damo said in Foster must go:

@Crucial said in Foster must go:

@Chris said in Foster must go:

Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article

“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."

From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.

That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.

That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).

I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.

If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.

In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.

I wonder if his contract is governed by NZ employment law? I assume so. He can't be fired if so. Better hope he walks or start a rigorous retraining process....

I don't know what is in his contract but I strongly suspect there would be some performance standards and ability to remove him if the standards aren't met. Probably written in vague terms, hence the review needed.

If not, they can simply sack him and pay out his contract. Be expensive but less expensive than continuing to destroy the brand.

@Crucial said in Foster must go:

@canefan said in Foster must go:

@Damo said in Foster must go:

@Crucial said in Foster must go:

@Chris said in Foster must go:

Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article

“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."

From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.

That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.

That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).

I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.

If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.

In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.

I wonder if his contract is governed by NZ employment law? I assume so. He can't be fired if so. Better hope he walks or start a rigorous retraining process....

He's an independent contractor . Give the man some credit, if he is asked to go he is very unlikely to take them to court. His contract will have clauses around cancellation.

Is he a contractor? I assumed he would be an employee.

@Crucial said in Foster must go:

@canefan said in Foster must go:

@Damo said in Foster must go:

@Crucial said in Foster must go:

@Chris said in Foster must go:

Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article

“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."

From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.

That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.

That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).

I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.

If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.

In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.

I wonder if his contract is governed by NZ employment law? I assume so. He can't be fired if so. Better hope he walks or start a rigorous retraining process....

He's an independent contractor . Give the man some credit, if he is asked to go he is very unlikely to take them to court. His contract will have clauses around cancellation.

I wasn't implying Fozz would make a potential exit messy

@Damo said in Foster must go:

@Crucial said in Foster must go:

@canefan said in Foster must go:

@Damo said in Foster must go:

@Crucial said in Foster must go:

@Chris said in Foster must go:

Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article

“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."

From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.

That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.

That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).

I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.

If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.

In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.

I wonder if his contract is governed by NZ employment law? I assume so. He can't be fired if so. Better hope he walks or start a rigorous retraining process....

He's an independent contractor . Give the man some credit, if he is asked to go he is very unlikely to take them to court. His contract will have clauses around cancellation.

Is he a contractor? I assumed he would be an employee.

The players are all contractors, I assume the rest of the staff are too. NZR only employ office staff as far as I know.

@Chris TRC is too late, if they are gonna make a move it must be now, let the new.coach step in and select his squad for TRC and have a chance to build toward the RWC.

@Damo well you have hoped winning this series was a major KPI....

@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:

@Damo well you have hoped winning this series was a major KPI....

Unlikely given Robinson's statement of 'unacceptable' prior to a formal review.

My guess is that the contact termination wording is broad and talks about 'performance and other factors that may result in an agreed termination of contract' or even just the second part.