@NTA said in Foster must go:
"We shouldn't ose to Ireland" is actually problematic thinking.
Rught now we are looking for ways not to lose, rather than how can we win.
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:
@NTA said in Foster must go:
"We shouldn't ose to Ireland" is actually problematic thinking.
Rught now we are looking for ways not to lose, rather than how can we win.
I think it is a scale of extremes, formed by the rugby culture from top to bottom when it comes to the ABs:
Winning is expected. Winning is usually fairly easy - particularly the decade after RWC2007 when the line was drawn in the sand.
As a result, any loss is met by denial ("you weren't better, we just played shit") or excuses (e.g. Barret's red card in Perth), and an almost childish urge to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
There isn't much room in the middle for rational thought. Just my observation.
@NTA Partially right in your observations but we at least can now acknowledge and (almost) accept when we get beaten by better teams on the day eg England tonking the ABs in the last World Cup. What sticks in the craw more than anything is the continual usage of gameplans that have been proven not to work. In times past if things weren't working you had astute rugby brains (Graham Mourie just as one example) on the field that could see that and changed things accordingly. Nowadays Captains seem to rely solely on the instructions coming down via radio from the coaches box and conveyed by the water runners.
Surely players on the field have better "feeling" on how opposition players and tactics are working and can sense minute things like marginal dropping off in speed levels of players as they every so slightly tire much better than the bank of computers that coaches seem to place 100% faith in can ever do. Ditto for members of their own team.
I wonder if we will see any players come out in support of Foster over the next few days/weeks?
@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
Shit that's a great article.
Reminds me when I lived in Oslo and the public transport system was a sick joke. There were continual delays and cancellations (which was no fun when it's minus farking 10) and shitty antiquated equipment. Rarely a day went by without some epic fuckup. Yet Norwegians being a passive bunch just accepted it and philosophically said they'd just wait for the next one and those responsible deflected or chided the people complaining because there were other countries that had much worse problems. And that of course was the reason things were so shitty. Zero standards, zero expectations and zero accountability. Eventually things got so bad that they had to do something and it appears they now have their shit together. Hopefully NZ does the same but if my Norwegian experiences are anything to go by things will have to hit absolutely rock bottom before these arrogant cnuts pull their fingers out.
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
Robinson can bugger off too
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.
That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).
I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.
@Tim said in Foster must go:
Utter cowardice that he wouldn’t face even our tame journos. This has been a twenty year tradition, another thing that Foster the fat fluffybunny has shat on
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.
That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).
I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.
We will see if you are right or it is just more smoke and mirrors to deflect any blame.
If he is resigning or being sacked, it would be true to form that Foster and Robinson still make a meal out of that "process" too...
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.
That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).
I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.
If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.
In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.
New Zealand Rugby boss Mark Robinson has labelled the All Blacks' first home series defeat in 27 years unacceptable and says work will begin immediately with head coach Ian Foster to grasp how the team reached this position.
Robinson's statement came after the All Blacks cancelled a scheduled media conference on Sunday.
One day after the 32-22 third test loss to Ireland in Wellington consigned the All Blacks to their first home series defeat since 1994, a coach was scheduled to front media at their team hotel.
When media arrived, however, they were eventually told the stand-up had been cancelled.
Attempting to address widespread speculation and pressure on Foster and his All Blacks coaching team, Robinson suggested he would be involved in meeting with the team before their two-test tour of South Africa begins on August 7.
"Congratulations to the Irish team for their well-deserved win last night but clearly the performance across the series for the All Blacks was not acceptable as we know they have reflected. We all know there is a huge amount of work to do," Robinson said.
"Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
I'd also throw in that the Australian experience is instructive: since professionalism the pathways to Test level have been getting narrower, and things like the schools arena are shrinking alarmingly. The change in demographic means Saturday sport is getting gradually overtaken by work, there is less money to go around, and you've got a shrinking grassroots scene where guys just can't/won't play because if they get injured, their lives are fucked.
Talking to Red Beard, the situation around Waikato sounds similar - if you're a kid who is good at rugby, the local Big Rugby School will hoover you up, and warehouse you so another Big Rugby School doesn't get there first. You might make the First XV or not, but you're in the frame for a provincial or even fully professional contract. If you don't get that contract, well you're more likely to leave the sport forever as an active participant, whether playing volunteering, refereeing etc.
See it here all the time. So really the proportion of casual fans is growing, and all they care about is winning. If you're not doing that, where to?
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
If he is resigning or being sacked, it would be true to form that Foster and Robinson still make a meal out of that "process" too...
Are the words "Full Support Of The Board" marching toward this thread with unseemly speed?
@Damo said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.
That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).
I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.
If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.
In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.
Correct. And the press conference would have very much got in the way of that. He would have been bombarded with questions that he couldn't answer over and over.
Let the proper process take its course.
There's a brand here for the NZR to try and protect. Chucking Foster in front of the piranhas would have been very damaging.
Oh to be a fly on the wall at NZR HQ today. I'm guessing that Foster and co will have been given space to gather answers to questions raised and will be snuck in the back door tomorrow morning.
@Damo said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.
That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).
I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.
If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.
In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.
I wonder if his contract is governed by NZ employment law? I assume so. He can't be fired if so. Better hope he walks or start a rigorous retraining process....
@NTA said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
If he is resigning or being sacked, it would be true to form that Foster and Robinson still make a meal out of that "process" too...
Are the words "Full Support Of The Board" marching toward this thread with unseemly speed?
Fingers crossed. Though I fear the blithering NZRU would use those words too literally...
@canefan said in Foster must go:
@Damo said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.
That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).
I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.
If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.
In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.
I wonder if his contract is governed by NZ employment law? I assume so. He can't be fired if so. Better hope he walks or start a rigorous retraining process....
He's an independent contractor . Give the man some credit, if he is asked to go he is very unlikely to take them to court. His contract will have clauses around cancellation.
@canefan said in Foster must go:
@Damo said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.
That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).
I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.
If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.
In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.
I wonder if his contract is governed by NZ employment law? I assume so. He can't be fired if so. Better hope he walks or start a rigorous retraining process....
I don't know what is in his contract but I strongly suspect there would be some performance standards and ability to remove him if the standards aren't met. Probably written in vague terms, hence the review needed.
If not, they can simply sack him and pay out his contract. Be expensive but less expensive than continuing to destroy the brand.
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@canefan said in Foster must go:
@Damo said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.
That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).
I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.
If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.
In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.
I wonder if his contract is governed by NZ employment law? I assume so. He can't be fired if so. Better hope he walks or start a rigorous retraining process....
He's an independent contractor . Give the man some credit, if he is asked to go he is very unlikely to take them to court. His contract will have clauses around cancellation.
Is he a contractor? I assumed he would be an employee.
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@canefan said in Foster must go:
@Damo said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.
That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).
I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.
If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.
In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.
I wonder if his contract is governed by NZ employment law? I assume so. He can't be fired if so. Better hope he walks or start a rigorous retraining process....
He's an independent contractor . Give the man some credit, if he is asked to go he is very unlikely to take them to court. His contract will have clauses around cancellation.
I wasn't implying Fozz would make a potential exit messy
@Damo said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@canefan said in Foster must go:
@Damo said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.
That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).
I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.
If Foster won't resign then NZR need to go through a fair process to remove him. They can't be seen to beginning with the outcome prior to the review taking place.
In other words. Whether they want to sack him or keep him they'd say the same thing.
I wonder if his contract is governed by NZ employment law? I assume so. He can't be fired if so. Better hope he walks or start a rigorous retraining process....
He's an independent contractor . Give the man some credit, if he is asked to go he is very unlikely to take them to court. His contract will have clauses around cancellation.
Is he a contractor? I assumed he would be an employee.
The players are all contractors, I assume the rest of the staff are too. NZR only employ office staff as far as I know.
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:
@Damo well you have hoped winning this series was a major KPI....
Unlikely given Robinson's statement of 'unacceptable' prior to a formal review.
My guess is that the contact termination wording is broad and talks about 'performance and other factors that may result in an agreed termination of contract' or even just the second part.
@NTA said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
If he is resigning or being sacked, it would be true to form that Foster and Robinson still make a meal out of that "process" too...
Are the words "Full Support Of The Board" marching toward this thread with unseemly speed?
He should won the Oscar for this performance. That annoys me as much as Foster.
@Machpants from the article it was canceled at the last minute and not his decision. He said he wasn't sure why it wasn't going ahead when they asked him.
@Frank said in Foster must go:
@NTA said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
If he is resigning or being sacked, it would be true to form that Foster and Robinson still make a meal out of that "process" too...
Are the words "Full Support Of The Board" marching toward this thread with unseemly speed?
He should won the Oscar for this performance. That annoys me as much as Foster.
Too much over the top method acting
I cannot see a scenario of Foster staying but various assistants being given the boot because who in their right mind would want to work under Foster currently? You think they were short-staffed finding assistants last time, that'll be nothing compared to now.
@MN5 said in Foster must go:
@Frank said in Foster must go:
@NTA said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
If he is resigning or being sacked, it would be true to form that Foster and Robinson still make a meal out of that "process" too...
Are the words "Full Support Of The Board" marching toward this thread with unseemly speed?
He should won the Oscar for this performance. That annoys me as much as Foster.
Too much over the top method acting
Fuck off.
@Donsteppa said in Will Foster go?:
And if he doesn't go... how many people are honestly looking forward to tuning into the next Test?
I'm not spending $120 to watch the Argentinean test in Hamilton, the first time I won't be going to a local test when in NZ. My attendance was contingent on the performance in Wellington, so the ABs made that decision for me.
@Biorealism said in Foster must go:
@Machpants from the article it was canceled at the last minute and not his decision. He said he wasn't sure why it wasn't going ahead when they asked him.
Just because he said that, it doesn't mean that it is true. "I don't know" might sound a bit better than "I have a urgent performance review to prepare for" or "I need to reconsider my future" or "I want to avoid the media to get my head straight"
@Frank said in Foster must go:
@MN5 said in Foster must go:
@Frank said in Foster must go:
@NTA said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
If he is resigning or being sacked, it would be true to form that Foster and Robinson still make a meal out of that "process" too...
Are the words "Full Support Of The Board" marching toward this thread with unseemly speed?
He should won the Oscar for this performance. That annoys me as much as Foster.
Too much over the top method acting
Fuck off.
That’s probably what DDL would say too. He’s always very committed to any role he takes on.
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
Short of saying the board has full confidence in the manager this is exactly what is usually said about four days before the manager "resigns" or has their contract terminated. English football is often a good example of this.
@Higgins said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
Short of saying the board has full confidence in the manager this is exactly what is usually said about four days before the manager "resigns" or has their contract terminated. English football is often a good example of this.
I hope that’s a pointer to that happening then,
We will see.
@Crucial would seem ridiculous that his role wouldn't include KPIs around winning...unless in thier arrogance prior to TRC last year, they thought 'it's only Ireland'
Everything about his role is geared to winning first, and then development, he has failed at the 1st one, I'd say all depends on how you view.development as to if he meets that one...if on new players making the step up, he probably gets a pass mark, if you include the likes of innovation in the development of NZ rugby aspect, he fails again...
Makes you wonder what he has to fall back on of he walks (pushed) as coaching surely ain't gonna be an option for the foreseeable future?
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:
@Crucial would seem ridiculous that his role wouldn't include KPIs around winning...unless in thier arrogance prior to TRC last year, they thought 'it's only Ireland'
Everything about his role is geared to winning first, and then development, he has failed at the 1st one, I'd say all depends on how you view.development as to if he meets that one...if on new players making the step up, he probably gets a pass mark, if you include the likes of innovation in the development of NZ rugby aspect, he fails again...
Makes you wonder what he has to fall back on of he walks (pushed) as coaching surely ain't gonna be an option for the foreseeable future?
If Hammett can get another gig, I'm sure Fozz can
