All Blacks 2023

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2023:

@Tim said in All Blacks 2023:

And with that positional switch likely to remain leading into this year’s World Cup, Foster would have been pleased by Holland confirming that Barrett would spend the majority of the Super Rugby season with No 12 on his back.

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Not good news for Riley Higgins and PUJ.

isn't PUJ more a 13?

I did a quick count of where he played for the Hurricanes last season. I think this is accurate.

4 starts at 12
1 start at 13

Sullivan was generally the Hurricanes preferred 13 with Proctor also getting some time

PUJ had injuries, but when fit, his usual spot was on the bench

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2023:

@Tim said in All Blacks 2023:

And with that positional switch likely to remain leading into this year’s World Cup, Foster would have been pleased by Holland confirming that Barrett would spend the majority of the Super Rugby season with No 12 on his back.

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Not good news for Riley Higgins and PUJ.

Higgins will spend a lot of time coming off the bench this year, same with Lakai I feel. Over time I think Higgins will grab one of those centre positions, he’s got the size, the skillset and the smarts to go very far in this game, but no need to rush him considering his age.

Also, isn’t PUJ out for half the season anyway? He’s still recovering from shoulder surgery?

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2023:

Also, isn’t PUJ out for half the season anyway?

That goes without saying when referencing either brother doesn't it?

@Duluth yes Canes coaches played him off the bench and usually at 12 but for the ABs as I recall he played at 13 off the bench (or was it 12?) and he just looks better at 13 (and a poster on here agreed with me a year or two ago)

Let's see if he makes it through the season...

@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2023:

Let's see if he makes it through the season...

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I see it says last in pro rugby, I see Coles playing for Horwhenua/Kapiti for a few games next year.You read it here first!!

watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.

Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.

I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:

watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.

Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.

I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?

Part of the problem IMO is that our comps are 'hard' on spoilers. Hopefully the new WR directives are closer to that with stricter ruling of 'off feet'. When Ireland were here last year we saw their players actually lying on top of rucks and disrupting ball and getting away with it. I hope that changes.
On the player front probably Kirifi and Robinson fit the spoiler category but neither, IMO, have the full range of qualities to be considered.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:

watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.

Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.

I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?

S Barrett can get a little scrappy..

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:

watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.

Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.

I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?

Hugh Renton has statistically been the biggest pest in the breakdown the last few years - but I don't think he'd ever be rounded enough that the All Blacks will look at him

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:

I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?

Boshier?

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:

watching the 6 Nations, especially Ireland, it has rammed home to me that the ABs are really missing a front line breakdown menace.

Cane isn't that guy. I'm not actually sure Papali'i is either. Savea is good for a last ditch turnover but he's not a battle in the trenches guy. And who ever we have at 6 definitely aren't. Ireland have two in VdF and Doris is a massive pest. And they create a constant stream of shit ball for their opponents.

I'm battling to think of who around the country fits the bill?

Part of the problem IMO is that our comps are 'hard' on spoilers. Hopefully the new WR directives are closer to that with stricter ruling of 'off feet'. When Ireland were here last year we saw their players actually lying on top of rucks and disrupting ball and getting away with it. I hope that changes.
On the player front probably Kirifi and Robinson fit the spoiler category but neither, IMO, have the full range of qualities to be considered.

We haven’t had that kind of player for some time and I used to get frustrated watching us line up in a 13/2 defence split so we could have 2 players available for counter attack opp off broken play and never effecting turnovers.

I think we started to see more turnovers last year, once the quality of our pack improved but we don’t have a player like a McCaw who is a master in the dark arts as such.

@Tim said in All Blacks 2023:

I think the main thing of interest in that article is that Barrett will play 12 in Super Rugby this year.

Surprised to read he only played 6 games at 12 last year and 11 times in his whole career - compared to 87 at Fullback and that Holland only thinks it "likely" he will play at 12. I thought the Canes & Holland saw him as a natural 12 and it was the AB being over-cautious.

Be interesting to see how Rueben Love goes this year and if he can stake an AB claim post-RWC2023.

@mariner4life Retallick used to perform that role pretty well, as did Taylor/Coles when they had form - which does bring to light one "shortcoming" of Taukeiaho.

Blackadder could be that guy, but to me he's a 7, could maybe have him at 6 if we've got a bruiser at 8.

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:

Be interesting to see how Rueben Love goes this year and if he can stake an AB claim post-RWC2023

Why just Love? I don't get the attention this guy gets.

@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:

Be interesting to see how Rueben Love goes this year and if he can stake an AB claim post-RWC2023

Why just Love? I don't get the attention this guy gets.

Simpy as he's a contender for an AB slot and the article was mainly about him & JB.

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:

Be interesting to see how Rueben Love goes this year and if he can stake an AB claim post-RWC2023

Why just Love? I don't get the attention this guy gets.

Simpy as he's a contender for an AB slot and the article was mainly about him & JB.

I was just trying to get you to say you read an article. Enjoy your ban.

Lomax has certainly come on in leaps and bounds over the last year - https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sports/other/just-backing-myself-lomax-s-journey-from-all-blacks-snub-to-scrum-star/ar-AA184nnu?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=de73820cc30d496193fc90582fadcb68&ei=9

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2023:

Lomax has certainly come on in leaps and bounds over the last year - https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sports/other/just-backing-myself-lomax-s-journey-from-all-blacks-snub-to-scrum-star/ar-AA184nnu?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=de73820cc30d496193fc90582fadcb68&ei=9

Holland's coaching?

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2023:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2023:

Lomax has certainly come on in leaps and bounds over the last year - https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sports/other/just-backing-myself-lomax-s-journey-from-all-blacks-snub-to-scrum-star/ar-AA184nnu?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=de73820cc30d496193fc90582fadcb68&ei=9

Holland's coaching?

Yeah, all down to the scrummaging maestro that is Holland.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2023:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2023:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2023:

Lomax has certainly come on in leaps and bounds over the last year - https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sports/other/just-backing-myself-lomax-s-journey-from-all-blacks-snub-to-scrum-star/ar-AA184nnu?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=de73820cc30d496193fc90582fadcb68&ei=9

Holland's coaching?

Yeah, all down to the scrummaging maestro that is Holland.

I think @Crazy-Horse was having a dig that Lomax doesn't mention Holland but rattles of a bunch of others that have helped him.
To be fair Holland employed Whopper to do that job.

This Super season is not preparing us well for a world cup. It's great to watch, but the pace is way higher than the knockout stages will be, and I fear the physicality wont' be as high.

Seems crazy to play for most of the year with one set of laws, and then go into a different interpretation for the most critical stage of the 4 year cycle. Reminds me a bit of ELV years; we played low impact rugby all Super, and then ran into a good physical French side in Dunedin played under a slower, more grinding style. We lost, it sucked. I fear we could see something similar this year.

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2023:

This Super season is not preparing us well for a world cup. It's great to watch, but the pace is way higher than the knockout stages will be, and I fear the physicality wont' be as high.

Seems crazy to play for most of the year with one set of laws, and then go into a different interpretation for the most critical stage of the 4 year cycle. Reminds me a bit of ELV years; we played low impact rugby all Super, and then ran into a good physical French side in Dunedin played under a slower, more grinding style. We lost, it sucked. I fear we could see something similar this year.

Is that the case though? 6N is also being played at speed. Are these things all being ditched in the RWC?

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:

Is that the case though? 6N is also being played at speed.

Good question, don't know the answer. I thought there were a bunch of trial laws in play just in Super - and the games look a damns ight faster than last year (based on the 1 1/2 games I've seen).

What law changes are being modified?

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2023:

This Super season is not preparing us well for a world cup. It's great to watch, but the pace is way higher than the knockout stages will be, and I fear the physicality wont' be as high.

Seems crazy to play for most of the year with one set of laws, and then go into a different interpretation for the most critical stage of the 4 year cycle. Reminds me a bit of ELV years; we played low impact rugby all Super, and then ran into a good physical French side in Dunedin played under a slower, more grinding style. We lost, it sucked. I fear we could see something similar this year.

im afraid of that too, blues were much better than the highlanders....but they still scored a lot for broken play and from range, they kicked after only a few phases...we still dont see NZ teams making steady progress, long periods of possession and territory

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2023:

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:

Is that the case though? 6N is also being played at speed.

Good question, don't know the answer. I thought there were a bunch of trial laws in play just in Super - and the games look a damns ight faster than last year (based on the 1 1/2 games I've seen).

What law changes are being modified?

Being applied is more the case.
No time wasting has always been a law. The interpretation of time wasting has drifted over time as no ref wants to be seen as pedantic. They have been given the backing to speed things up and enforce the prescribed time limits (kicking)
The SR different ones are around instructions to the TMO and the application of Red Cards. The infringing player leaves the field under a yellow and while play continues the off field officials look to see if it gets graded as a Red. That only happens rarely anyway so the keys to the worldwide game are the interpretation of time wasting and set piece restarts plus the TMO instructions to rule on clear and obvious as quickly as possible.
Set piece restarts is probably the biggest contributing factor I would say.

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2023:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2023:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2023:

Lomax has certainly come on in leaps and bounds over the last year - https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sports/other/just-backing-myself-lomax-s-journey-from-all-blacks-snub-to-scrum-star/ar-AA184nnu?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=de73820cc30d496193fc90582fadcb68&ei=9

Holland's coaching?

Yeah, all down to the scrummaging maestro that is Holland.

I think @Crazy-Horse was having a dig that Lomax doesn't mention Holland but rattles of a bunch of others that have helped him.
To be fair Holland employed Whopper to do that job.

Probably because Holland hasn't, what would he know about the dark arts haha.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2023:

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2023:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2023:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2023:

Lomax has certainly come on in leaps and bounds over the last year - https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sports/other/just-backing-myself-lomax-s-journey-from-all-blacks-snub-to-scrum-star/ar-AA184nnu?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=de73820cc30d496193fc90582fadcb68&ei=9

Holland's coaching?

Yeah, all down to the scrummaging maestro that is Holland.

I think @Crazy-Horse was having a dig that Lomax doesn't mention Holland but rattles of a bunch of others that have helped him.
To be fair Holland employed Whopper to do that job.

Probably because Holland hasn't, what would he know about the dark arts haha.

I'd guess getting shorter locks to jump higher than taller ones would be a dark art? Oh.

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2023:

This Super season is not preparing us well for a world cup. It's great to watch, but the pace is way higher than the knockout stages will be, and I fear the physicality wont' be as high.

Seems crazy to play for most of the year with one set of laws, and then go into a different interpretation for the most critical stage of the 4 year cycle. Reminds me a bit of ELV years; we played low impact rugby all Super, and then ran into a good physical French side in Dunedin played under a slower, more grinding style. We lost, it sucked. I fear we could see something similar this year.

Is that the case though? 6N is also being played at speed. Are these things all being ditched in the RWC?

I thought I read when the Laws for the 6N were announced,It was also said The RWC would be played under the old Laws for 2023.
Maybe due too short a time frame for international teams to adapt.

@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2023:

This Super season is not preparing us well for a world cup. It's great to watch, but the pace is way higher than the knockout stages will be, and I fear the physicality wont' be as high.

Seems crazy to play for most of the year with one set of laws, and then go into a different interpretation for the most critical stage of the 4 year cycle. Reminds me a bit of ELV years; we played low impact rugby all Super, and then ran into a good physical French side in Dunedin played under a slower, more grinding style. We lost, it sucked. I fear we could see something similar this year.

Is that the case though? 6N is also being played at speed. Are these things all being ditched in the RWC?

I thought I read when the Laws for the 6N were announced,It was also said The RWC would be played under the old Laws for 2023.
Maybe due too short a time frame for international teams to adapt.

Remember the URL?

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2023:

This Super season is not preparing us well for a world cup. It's great to watch, but the pace is way higher than the knockout stages will be, and I fear the physicality wont' be as high.

Seems crazy to play for most of the year with one set of laws, and then go into a different interpretation for the most critical stage of the 4 year cycle. Reminds me a bit of ELV years; we played low impact rugby all Super, and then ran into a good physical French side in Dunedin played under a slower, more grinding style. We lost, it sucked. I fear we could see something similar this year.

Is that the case though? 6N is also being played at speed. Are these things all being ditched in the RWC?

I thought I read when the Laws for the 6N were announced,It was also said The RWC would be played under the old Laws for 2023.
Maybe due too short a time frame for international teams to adapt.

Remember the URL?

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No not those laws.The Laws introduced in January 2023 to speed up the 6 nations and then introduced into SR.
The shot clock
90 seconds to form scrums etc

And I cant be fucked looking it up.

@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:

The Laws introduced in January 2023 to speed up the 6 nations and then introduced into SR.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:

@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:

The Laws introduced in January 2023 to speed up the 6 nations and then introduced into SR.

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Thanks for that but that article didn't mention the WC.
Maybe I dreamed it,But I am sure I read an article saying these Laws would not be used in 2023 WC.

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2023:

This Super season is not preparing us well for a world cup. It's great to watch, but the pace is way higher than the knockout stages will be, and I fear the physicality wont' be as high.

Seems crazy to play for most of the year with one set of laws, and then go into a different interpretation for the most critical stage of the 4 year cycle. Reminds me a bit of ELV years; we played low impact rugby all Super, and then ran into a good physical French side in Dunedin played under a slower, more grinding style. We lost, it sucked. I fear we could see something similar this year.

Is that the case though? 6N is also being played at speed. Are these things all being ditched in the RWC?

The stats back this up too.

The Crusaders-Chiefs game topped the Round 1 fixtures with a ball-in-play time of 38.15. The Ireland-France clash in week 2 of the tournament recorded an astonishing 46:12 minutes of ball in play time.

Laws aren't changed in a RWC year. All laws applied during the RWC were already introduced in 2022 at the latest.

Don't confuse law changes with changes in law application guidelines, which is - @Crucial already said as much - what the attempts to speed up the game are.

The changes to how red cards are handed out in SRP is a law trial.

Been impressed with the 6n so far. Seems really high pace rugby.

@Darren said in All Blacks 2023:

Been impressed with the 6n so far. Seems really high pace rugby.

Yeah, the suckers are falling into our trap, it's like when the 1991 Wallabies convinced England to play running rugby in the final. We've convinced them to play our style in a RWC year.

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2023:

This Super season is not preparing us well for a world cup. It's great to watch, but the pace is way higher than the knockout stages will be, and I fear the physicality wont' be as high.

Seems crazy to play for most of the year with one set of laws, and then go into a different interpretation for the most critical stage of the 4 year cycle. Reminds me a bit of ELV years; we played low impact rugby all Super, and then ran into a good physical French side in Dunedin played under a slower, more grinding style. We lost, it sucked. I fear we could see something similar this year.

Yeah I'm not convinced, there was a lot of brutal physicality in the games I watched.