All Blacks 2024

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

"The kicking game is so critical, the defensive game and the discipline. So how can you embed those core things early? You can be open to all information or be really, really clear.

So that sounds like bye-bye to
kicking: BB
defensive game: Will Jordan
discipline: Sam Cane

discipline: the new proposed captain should be a goner too, the only AB to have two red cards in tests.

TBF, is our defence that bad, the GREATEST team in the world couldn't score a try against our mostly 14 man team.

@Nepia yeah, definitely more worried about scooter

@Nepia our defence improved quite alot last year.

Our goal line defence had always been pretty good under McLeod but when it came to defending depth, we really struggled.

But our discipline remained poor last year.

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

But our discipline remained poor last year.

And it's interesting to see him calling that out specifically, because his crusaders teams trod all over the refs, so hopefully he realises that won't fly at test level.

Interesting to listen to Razor on Newstalk ZB about how the coaching team will focus on players during Super Rugby

Leon will focus on outside backs, Holland midfield, Scott Hansen halves, Razor loosies and Jase Ryan tight 5.

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

"The kicking game is so critical, the defensive game and the discipline. So how can you embed those core things early? You can be open to all information or be really, really clear.

So that sounds like bye-bye to
kicking: BB
defensive game: Will Jordan
discipline: Sam Cane

discipline: the new proposed captain should be a goner too, the only AB to have two red cards in tests.

TBF, is our defence that bad, the GREATEST team in the world couldn't score a try against our mostly 14 man team.

Defence is not just about stopping tries, it's about stopping points. They won, and indeed we conceded the most ever points by an AB team this year. So yes, defence is a major concern

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

"The kicking game is so critical, the defensive game and the discipline. So how can you embed those core things early? You can be open to all information or be really, really clear.

So that sounds like bye-bye to
kicking: BB
defensive game: Will Jordan
discipline: Sam Cane

discipline: the new proposed captain should be a goner too, the only AB to have two red cards in tests.

TBF, is our defence that bad, the GREATEST team in the world couldn't score a try against our mostly 14 man team.

Um, our locking stocks are shaky as it is.

TBF, is our defence that bad

It is if the opposition can get cards and penalties from it.

@Dan54 with NZ losing so much playing talent, and with it the ability to be player-led, maybe the coach does need to be main man again. A bit like Carwyn James when masterminded the Lions triumph in '71 (albeit aided by some generational talent) and ushered NZ into the modern age of running rugby

NZ used to be leading rugby-innovators. Time to re-take that mantle and develop the players to follow the Robertson masterplan

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Interesting to listen to Razor on Newstalk ZB about how the coaching team will focus on players during Super Rugby

Leon will focus on outside backs, Holland midfield, Scott Hansen halves, Razor loosies and Jase Ryan tight 5.

Depends on what is meant by focus. Watching players is one thing (what every coaching setup does), working with SR coaching teams is another. I hope it's the latter and NZR can facilitate if needed, but as someone up the thread said, if SR coaches don't play ball, Robertson and co can't complain.

@stodders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Dan54 with NZ losing so much playing talent, and with it the ability to be player-led, maybe the coach does need to be main man again. A bit like Carwyn James when masterminded the Lions triumph in '71 (albeit aided by some generational talent) and ushered NZ into the modern age of running rugby

NZ used to be leading rugby-innovators. Time to re-take that mantle and develop the players to follow the Robertson masterplan

I don't think innovation can be all down to Robertson - needs to be an effort across the piece. From what I read of Carwyn James, his style & thinking was pretty much established in Wales before he took over the Lions coaching role. (And amazing to think that James - arguably the greatest coach of them all - never coached Wales).

@antipodean Imagine the shock if the bolded text actually means that Razor:
(i) isn't giving the number 15 jersey to Will Jordan but instead plans to give it to Shaun Stevenson or Zarn Sullivan;
(ii) those that got Yellow and Red cards in the RWC have disqualified themselves from consideration for captaincy;
(iii) Rieko in the number 13 jersey is not a done deal;
(iv) A goalkicker with a 90-95% success rate is on the shopping list (even if he doesn't have the razzle dazzle)

@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

those that got Yellow and Red cards in the RWC have disqualified themselves from consideration for captaincy;

The GOAT says "Hold my beer"

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Interesting to listen to Razor on Newstalk ZB about how the coaching team will focus on players during Super Rugby

Leon will focus on outside backs, Holland midfield, Scott Hansen halves, Razor loosies and Jase Ryan tight 5.

Depends on what is meant by focus. Watching players is one thing (what every coaching setup does), working with SR coaching teams is another. I hope it's the latter and NZR can facilitate if needed, but as someone up the thread said, if SR coaches don't play ball, Robertson and co can't complain.

He actually does talk about this in the interview. It's the latter and he talks about 'going through the front door' in dealing with SR coaches. Reading between the lines it sounds like he thinks there can improvements in how this is done compared to recent years.

@stodders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Dan54 with NZ losing so much playing talent, and with it the ability to be player-led, maybe the coach does need to be main man again. A bit like Carwyn James when masterminded the Lions triumph in '71 (albeit aided by some generational talent) and ushered NZ into the modern age of running rugby

NZ used to be leading rugby-innovators. Time to re-take that mantle and develop the players to follow the Robertson masterplan

Mate not in anyway arguing against Razor doing shows etc, and I not sure I have ever felt that the coach wasn't main man for ABs. Was just commenting on how Mrs etc thought of how it was going. I have enjoyed Ryan being in press an awful lot since he been forward coach (he genuinely has been) but also has just been very interesting about how he saw game going and elements of it rather than himself. Once again it not against Razor who I completely support etc, just the way I thought perhaps the show/questions were asked etc.
Also I do actually have a little worry when the coach is so important, as you mention Carwyn James, who was not someone who was front and centre, but get worried when you end up with press making it too much. I give you Eddie Jones who I believe has always made it about himself etc.
I DO NOT think Razor is anyway like him and don't want to get him like that. I will admit, would personally prefer he never did a breakdance again (find it cringeworthy) , which is what he is probably know for as much as his coaching almost overseas.

I will say it great to see him getting in amongst it with Super coaches etc, spending time with MacMillan and so on.
Also like how particular coaches are looking at certain positions in super comp ,although I think this is generally how it done anyway, but maybe a little more specific. I remember being at a lunch in Brisbane when Foxy talked about how it worked, he was a selector at time. It has always been that way for quite sometime, just expanding it a bit. Not sure if all will be selectors or feed info into group.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@stodders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Dan54 with NZ losing so much playing talent, and with it the ability to be player-led, maybe the coach does need to be main man again. A bit like Carwyn James when masterminded the Lions triumph in '71 (albeit aided by some generational talent) and ushered NZ into the modern age of running rugby

NZ used to be leading rugby-innovators. Time to re-take that mantle and develop the players to follow the Robertson masterplan

Mate not in anyway arguing against Razor doing shows etc, and I not sure I have ever felt that the coach wasn't main man for ABs. Was just commenting on how Mrs etc thought of how it was going. I have enjoyed Ryan being in press an awful lot since he been forward coach (he genuinely has been) but also has just been very interesting about how he saw game going and elements of it rather than himself. Once again it not against Razor who I completely support etc, just the way I thought perhaps the show/questions were asked etc.
Also I do actually have a little worry when the coach is so important, as you mention Carwyn James, who was not someone who was front and centre, but get worried when you end up with press making it too much. I give you Eddie Jones who I believe has always made it about himself etc.
I DO NOT think Razor is anyway like him and don't want to get him like that. I will admit, would personally prefer he never did a breakdance again (find it cringeworthy) , which is what he is probably know for as much as his coaching almost overseas.

it wouldnt bother me if he did the breakdance after a WC win ,

But dont want to see it as a yearly thing winning bledisloes , rugby championships etc

Fůck pretty words, it's all about deeds. Plenty of these guys have a silver tongue but can't deliver on what they promise. It appears Hammett hypnotised everyone who came into contact with him but it was all talk.

I'm optimistic about Razor, but that's because he has achieved so much success and has the runs on the board.

@Rancid-Schnitzel I do think there's value in Razor connecting with the media and the public. Rugby really struggles to be fan centric and Razor is a breath of fresh air in that sense.

@Windows97 SA definitely need to get younger players in. This group bar one or two players will be too old at the next WC. Will be interesting to see what the first test team post WC looks like

@W32 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Windows97 SA definitely need to get younger players in. This group bar one or two players will be too old at the next WC. Will be interesting to see what the first test team post WC looks like

Perhaps we'll see a repeat of 2015-19. Boks getting beaten all over the place and then putting the pieces of the jigsaw together near RWC time.

On the AB side of things, there's a pretty strong core team for Robertson to build on and he has the time to get the team where he wants it. I'm more interested in the general direction the team is going in - depth, ability to handle pressure, etc - than in PR fluff or even results in the first season or two.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Rancid-Schnitzel I do think there's value in Razor connecting with the media and the public. Rugby really struggles to be fan centric and Razor is a breath of fresh air in that sense.

For sure. PR is a huge part of the job. But as I said, I'll judge based on actions and results not pretty words.

For a blast from the past, I leave below Rattue's take on the worst XV of the Henry era - just prior to the 2011 RWC.

Aged like milk.

@nzzp exclude Nonu and I can't see the problem!

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@nzzp exclude Nonu and I can't see the problem!

pffft, Ben Smith?

@nzzp oh yeah that guy. Maybe he's talking about the other Ben Smith that didn't make the ABs

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@nzzp exclude Nonu and I can't see the problem!

pffft, Ben Smith?

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@nzzp exclude Nonu and I can't see the problem!

pffft, Ben Smith?

and a certain Stephen Donald cameo.

I mean, it's so spectactularly wrong it's funny.

And it's so spectacularly mean it's funny. I mean, it's saying 'you're the worst elite rugby player I've seen' FFS

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

I mean, it's so spectactularly wrong it's funny.

And it's so spectacularly mean it's funny. I mean, it's saying 'you're the worst elite rugby player I've seen' FFS

Except Highlanders. He could not even be bothered to watch them. Not like he is paid to do so as a professional sports journalist or anything...

@nzzp

On reading that, my first reaction was: "Who are most of these guys?"

Well the world cup has shown that regarding the AB squad we are there, or there abouts.
Super enthused about the level of interest in rugby at the WC. Great to see the passion from France, Ireland, Portugal ...
Ref support and TMO refinement is a major work-on for 2024.
Excluding this year the last 5 years have been a hard watch supporting the ABs most of the time. The top tiers of NZ rugby lacked clarity and organisation.
Super proud of the WC effort.
Razor not afraid to run his own path.
Next captain firstly has got to be an automatic pick in the team. S Barrett probably.
Massive year End of year tour in UK something I'm looking forward to.

@booboo said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Tim said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

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Strange is one of two locks with the size for test footy. The other being Parkinson. And the other is Sam Darry ...

Stranger things have happened but I have serious doubts about Darry's selection in the AB squad for 2024. He's not dominant in the NPC so the gap is huge with the international requirements. MSR, McWhannel and Sangster have a higher ceiling IMO.

@nzzp Rattue = dude who delivers bogus takes with high confidence in those bogus takes

@Victor-Meldrew I’m hoping things won’t be as dire as they were post 2015. Think a lot of that had to do with Allister Coetzee's non coaching and very poor team cohesion…. But they did lose a lot of senior players around that time as well. Rassie staying on is a good sign, maybe he has a plan.

@BerniesCorner I would love Scott Barrett or someone who is an automatic pick rather than Cane. Felt Dalton played well on the end of year tour 22 and did enough to usurp Cane. Had he played perhaps we would of won the final. Would've, could've should've.

@W32 It's sort of a pattern with the Bok coaches. One Bok coach will cap a lot of players and then the next two Bok coaches will primarily use those players (only adding a handful of squad players) during their tenures. At the end of that 10-year+ period, the cupboard is bare.

@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@W32 It's sort of a pattern with the Bok coaches. One Bok coach will cap a lot of players and then the next two Bok coaches will primarily use those players (only adding a handful of squad players) during their tenures. At the end of that 10-year+ period, the cupboard is bare.

SA rugby have dropped the "quota" system apparently. Hopefully that will result in color being a non factor in our rugby going forward....that should result in better outcomes all around. I think Rassie and Nienaber deserve credit for identifying, bringing in and nurturing talented players from disadvantaged situations. Kolisi being the obvious example. Honestly as an expat looking on I felt so excited when players like Kolisi, Mapimpi, Am, etc started taking on leadership roles in the team. A huge previously ignored pool of players showing us the way forward. Hopefully the shortsightedness of the past is behind us......

@W32 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Windows97 SA definitely need to get younger players in. This group bar one or two players will be too old at the next WC. Will be interesting to see what the first test team post WC looks like

Thanks as I'm not that familiar with the SA players aside form the fact they seem to beat us a lot.

However I would say SA is in the more enviable position of having 4 years to blood new players in preparation for the next RWC (albeit by the sounds of it they'll have to blood quite a few) instead of being forced to blood new players immediately in 2024 as they've had a huge exodus post the RWC.

Interesting the shift from "don't have the cattle" to great and optimistic starting point. Hopefully Razor can bring out the best in them.

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

For a blast from the past, I leave below Rattue's take on the worst XV of the Henry era - just prior to the 2011 RWC.

Aged like milk.

View embedded content

jesus...that might be the worst thing ive ever seen written down

14.) BEN SMITH

The renaissance man according to southerners. Have to take their word for it, since my devotion to Super rugby doesn't often extend to watching the Highlanders. Looked fairly ordinary in his All Black stint compared with the Sivivatus of this world. As for being Ben Smith - All Black wings need handles like Josevata, Hosea, Rico, Rene, Rudi, Cory, Sitiveni, Zac, Israel, Jonah. Call it the Engelbert Humperdinck effect. Do you think Sonny Bill Williams would be Sonny Bill Williams if he wasn't Sonny Bill Williams? Come on. Try Benny Boy Smith-Wesson and just watch your career take off.