@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@mariner4life oh come on, prior to the world cup Donald was one of the most "hated" guys in NZ rugby. Everyone read that bit and nodded hard.
IMHO hated sounds too strong. Most people did not want him anywhere near the AB squad that is sure. I was not a fan but was thrilled for him to get the chance at redemption, as he seemed like a nice guy
@Darren said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
For a blast from the past, I leave below Rattue's take on the worst XV of the Henry era - just prior to the 2011 RWC.
Aged like milk.
What a hateful article, just putting the boot into everyone.
Besides it being totally wrong, as some of those guys are now legends, just saying this crap about guys being given a shot in the AB's, through injury or coaches trying new things.
This kind of stuff just pisses me off.
Yeah me too. Even guys on here naming ABs who aren’t that good gets tiresome after awhile ( puts hand up in guilty fashion for past misdeeds ) but for a “professional” to do a whole article like that is really pathetic.
If I was any of those players I’d be tempted to go up to him and punch him on sight to be honest.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
Narratives stick though...
So do legendary moments: Beaver coming on in a size-too-small shirt, the ABs with a penalty and as nervous as buggery, and he simply says "Just give me the fucking ball"
That hasn't happened at the time of the article obviously. But that game changed the narrative around Donald. Negative narratives take on a life of their own, and people stop seeing a balanced view of players.
Interestingly, in his book, McCaw rated Donald's character and commitment as an AB really highly in his book
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
Narratives stick though...
So do legendary moments: Beaver coming on in a size-too-small shirt, the ABs with a penalty and as nervous as buggery, and he simply says "Just give me the fucking ball"
That hasn't happened at the time of the article obviously. But that game changed the narrative around Donald. Negative narratives take on a life of their own, and people stop seeing a balanced view of players.
Interestingly, in his book, McCaw rated Donald's character and commitment as an AB really highly in his book
I just thought he was a bit limited in the natural talent department and the incumbent was the opposite, so there was a bit of chalk and cheese going on when he played, compared to what we were used to.
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
Narratives stick though...
So do legendary moments: Beaver coming on in a size-too-small shirt, the ABs with a penalty and as nervous as buggery, and he simply says "Just give me the fucking ball"
That hasn't happened at the time of the article obviously. But that game changed the narrative around Donald. Negative narratives take on a life of their own, and people stop seeing a balanced view of players.
Interestingly, in his book, McCaw rated Donald's character and commitment as an AB really highly in his book
I just thought he was a bit limited in the natural talent department and the incumbent was the opposite, so there was a bit of chalk and cheese going on when he played, compared to what we were used to.
Yeah but being compared to DC is unfair on anyone.
I liked the idea of Donald at 12 as a robust second playmaker til Nonu came of age truth be told.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@canefan hence why I put "hated". Not, hated.
New Zealand ( well, and any other countries in the world ) has some absolutely munterish “fans”.
I remember how hated Mark Carter was and that was before the days of social media. What the fuck did he ever do to deserve that ?
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@MN5 you're drunk, go back to punching journalists online.
No, the beer isn’t ready til midweek and being Scottish I’m not buying any.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
I remember how hated Mark Carter was and that was before the days of social media. What the fuck did he ever do to deserve that ?
Came from Auckland
Used sellotape
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
I was just kacking my pants, as we lost ten after ten after ten. It's not like there was anyone else, Donald was obviously next cab, but he was flaky. Didn't do much in the final, but nailed the clutch moment
Disagree, he defended well at 12 that game.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@canefan hence why I put "hated". Not, hated.
New Zealand ( well, and any other countries in the world ) has some absolutely munterish “fans”.
I remember how hated Mark Carter was and that was before the days of social media. What the fuck did he ever do to deserve that ?
I agree so much, Carter wasn't anything great, but was pk, didn't deserve the crap he got. Have seen it over the years where some rugby watchers expect every AB named to be a great or he isn't good enough, and so cops rubbish from people who generally aren't good enough to play top club rugby! Even with Donald, I agree he was limited in natural ability, but still the players I always love as a lot of what they do is through often hard work rather than natural ability? True greats like McCaw and Carter combine thet lot exceptional natural ability with never leaving a stone unturned to make sure everything is as good as possible. Always remember seeing a test in Brisbanes , I got there early, and it was to be noted that McCaw and Dan Carter were actually out on field going through warm ups etc probably 5 minutes before the rest of team.
Stuff understands Barrett’s new contract with New Zealand Rugby and the Blues, with a significant third-party contribution once again, is set to be revealed as early as this week after taking some time to get over the line. It will take him through until the 2027 World Cup.
until the 2027 World Cup
Even older, slower, less distance on kicks, more hospital passes than a lawyer chasing an ambulance, go ahead BB, prove me wrong!
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
It will take him through until the 2027 World Cup
If true, seems that Robertson sees him as integral to his plans to go one better than this year's model and win the Final.
@nostrildamus 100% agree. BB should've ridden off into the sunset after RWC2019, but chose to set the ABs back quite a few years at the 10 and 15 positions. Now he's gonna be at 10 for a few years way past his prime.
An often overlooked strength of the ABs (compared to say SA, AU's, etc.) has been that they had stars who knew when they should retire from international rugby. BB is going the opposite route.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
It will take him through until the 2027 World Cup
If true, seems that Robertson sees him as integral to his plans to go one better than this year's model and win the Final.
Maybe he thinks he can get a sweeter tune out of him. Doesn't mean to say he will hitch his wagon to him for the entire 4 years. We will see
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
Now he's gonna be at 10 for a few years way past his prime.
I'm not sure that's what this signing means. Even not for the Blues.
I can imagine that Robertson considers him useful for a transition period of 1 or 2 years and that BB has negotiated well to get a longer contract. A signing through to 2027 doesn't necessarily mean he'll be an AB for that long.
We'll see.
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
It will take him through until the 2027 World Cup
If true, seems that Robertson sees him as integral to his plans to go one better than this year's model and win the Final.
Maybe he thinks he can get a sweeter tune out of him. Doesn't mean to say he will hitch his wagon to him for the entire 4 years. We will see
It makes sense to use him for a year or two but maybe not for four.
Julian Savea signed a 4 year deal through to 2019.
It didn't guarantee Savea was at the 2019 RWC.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
Julian Savea signed a 4 year deal through to 2019.
It didn't guarantee Savea was at the 2019 RWC.
Yeah, but Savea was young (25) when he signed and arguably the best winger in rugby -BB is neither.
@Stargazer I suspect that even 1 or 2 years is going to be to the detriment of Dmac's game time at 10 but MORE importantly to the Test experience of any new 10. It may even cut the number of players who will run out in the AB 10 jersey prior to RWC2027.
it might also suggest that the coach is not overly confident of finding enough fresh new 10/15s...
@Bovidae It's ok, everybody. Before drafting Barrett's contract, NZR did their due diligence and research about BB's abilities. They felt it unnecessary to review his last few seasons in the AB team, bc on-field play can be so misleading. Instead they consulted reputable and up-to-date sources including allblacks DOT com where they found the following info:
"WITH DEVASTATING SPEED, a laser-like boot and smart game management, Beauden Barrett has been in electrifying form for the All Blacks in recent seasons, winning back-to-back World Rugby Player of the Year Awards in 2016 and 2017."
I guess Wikipedia was down during that particular lunch break.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
it might also suggest that the coach is not overly confident of finding enough fresh new 10/15s...
He'll have to develop them then. Has plenty of time and access to all the best players in NZ.
@Victor-Meldrew he was far from both his and THE best when he re-signed.
He had a few great runs in the 2015 RWC though.
@Victor-Meldrew Agreed. It's as if the previous two AB coaching regimes (Shag and the guy whose name may not be spoken) have brainwashed the public and media into believing that 4 years isn't long enough to develop new 10s.
Henry showed that you can use up to FOUR 10s during a regular 4-year cycle and two of them could be new + very different to your 1st choice.
I not sure what problem is, he has got a new contract , I sure Razor etc have their thoughts on what he will be used for in team and for how long. I said before and don't mind saying again, I am pleased he has signed back here. I my opinion for what it's worth the more competition we have for places in ABs is only good for the team.
The big loser in this could be Perofeta as the article says that the Blues needed convincing that BB would add value to their squad. They will be competing for the no.10 jersey from 2025.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
Julian Savea signed a 4 year deal through to 2019.
It didn't guarantee Savea was at the 2019 RWC.
Yeah, but Savea was young (25) when he signed and arguably the best winger in rugby -BB is neither.
And yet despite all this by 2019 Savea gone. So - as I said - just being signed through to the World Cup is no guarantee you will be at the World Cup
I think DMac deserves decent time as the AB 10. He's been seriously good over the last few years.
True, but the point I'm making is the circumstances are very different. A 4 year deal for BB makes less sense
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
True, but the point I'm making is the circumstances are very different. A 4 year deal for BB makes less sense
Think you are missing the wider point. Is keeping our best players in New Zealand not a good thing for keeping Super Rugby strong? Even if he isn't still at his peak, he is still a great pro to have playing locally.
I'd trust Razor to make the tough calls, and to use Barrett how he sees fit in the environment. Rightly or wrongly, I think there is every chance Razor backs himself to get Beauden back playing to the best of his abilities as a 10.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
True, but the point I'm making is the circumstances are very different. A 4 year deal for BB makes less sense
Think you are missing the wider point. Is keeping our best players in New Zealand not a good thing for keeping Super Rugby strong? Even if he isn't still at his peak, he is still a great pro to have playing locally.
I'd trust Razor to make the tough calls, and to use Barrett how he sees fit in the environment. Rightly or wrongly, I think there is every chance Razor backs himself to get Beauden back playing to the best of his abilities as a 10.
No, not missing the wider point at all. As I've said, have zero problems or concerns with BB being signed up to provide continuity. I will have concerns if Robertson doesn't develop options at 10 & 15 and a 36yr-old BB is the incumbent
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
True, but the point I'm making is the circumstances are very different. A 4 year deal for BB makes less sense
Think you are missing the wider point. Is keeping our best players in New Zealand not a good thing for keeping Super Rugby strong? Even if he isn't still at his peak, he is still a great pro to have playing locally.
I'd trust Razor to make the tough calls, and to use Barrett how he sees fit in the environment. Rightly or wrongly, I think there is every chance Razor backs himself to get Beauden back playing to the best of his abilities as a 10.
No, not missing the wider point at all. As I've said, have zero problems or concerns with BB being signed up to provide continuity. I will have concerns if Robertson doesn't develop options at 10 & 15 and a 36yr-old BB is the incumbent
That's such a sweeping statement though. Absolutely possible that Razor gives him a second wind... it's not like he is 36 now, he is 32.
