@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@gt12 Delany will most likely start at lock. I'd say Flanders will be at 8, with Shields at 6. I'm just saying Delany needs to be in the convo because he's play more than half his career at blindside.
I think that depends on whether they want to go with Flanders at 6, Kirifi at 7, then Lakai / Iose at 8.
I'm not sure that they need Shields as a starter unless injuries strike.
@gt12 if they donāt go with Shields (which I think they will because of his experience) I would go Howden, Kirifi and Flanders. The type of game Flanderās plays seems to be much more suited to 8 than 6, plus Howden hada great NPC in a poor Manawatu side. Then I would have Lakai on the bench who can cover all three back row positions. Iose misses out for me because he isnāt as versatile and if you have him in a loose trio partnership with Kirifi, itās just too small in my view.
In which case, Delany is miiiiiiiles away from a 6 jersey at the Canes, let alone the ABs.
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
The ABs team Iād like to see in 2024 is
- Pouri Rakete-Stones
- Tyrone Thompson
- Joel Hintz
- Geoff Cridge
- IWL
- MMT
- Josh Kaifa
- Devan Flanders
- Folau Fakatava
- Lincoln McClutchie (captain / coach)
- Jonah Lowe
- Chase Tiatia
- Nick Grigg
- Ollie Sapsford
- Harry Goddfrey
Would struggle against the Western Force.
@antipodean not if you found a way to get Blackadder on the bench.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@antipodean not if you found a way to get Blackadder on the bench.
Before or after he'd broken the bench?
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
The ABs team Iād like to see in 2024 is
- Pouri Rakete-Stones
- Tyrone Thompson
- Joel Hintz
- Geoff Cridge
- IWL
- MMT
- Josh Kaifa
- Devan Flanders
- Folau Fakatava
- Lincoln McClutchie (captain / coach)
- Jonah Lowe
- Chase Tiatia
- Nick Grigg
- Ollie Sapsford
- Harry Goddfrey
I like it. 15 debutants and no living off past glories ( making a World Cup final isnāt that big a deal, itās not like they won it )
Iāve read up quite a bit on this McClutchie guy, he sounds like the real deal. Lots of talk on him on some pretty reputable Rugby sites.
Some interesting and thought-provoking insights from Mr Kitshoff on the benefits of allowing overseas players in the Boks. Makes you wonder if it would benefit the AB's
@Victor-Meldrew senior ABs do get a sabbatical. Maybe expand on that to allow them to play overseas for a couple of years and still be available for AB selection, but I wouldn't want to see anything more than that.
@antipodean yeah it doesn't set their selection in stone, but say Smith, Whitelock had been playing overseas last couple of years, they'd still be invaluable.
@antipodean I thought you had to have a certain number of caps to get a sabbatical anyway?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones perhaps for known quantities; those who are near certs to start and have 50 caps or something like that...
Some sort of set criteria could be really good. Provide an incentive and ensures the more experienced players get to absorb any knowledge and can share ir
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@antipodean I thought you had to have a certain number of caps to get a sabbatical anyway?
I suspect that you are correct. Since it doesn't seem to happen very often I can't recall a pattern other than NZR believe certain players are worth extending this opportunity to retain them.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@antipodean I thought you had to have a certain number of caps to get a sabbatical anyway?
I suspect that you are correct. Since it doesn't seem to happen very often I can't recall a pattern other than NZR believe certain players are worth extending this opportunity to retain them.
Think it's probably 50/50 as to whether it's been successful at AB level so far too - but probably a lot more valuable lower at lower levels.
@Victor-Meldrew I don't think it would work for the ABs, bc:
- The ABs play an uptempo/high octane style while in Europe they play a slower game. Much more suited to SA.
- The European game is great for props and locks mostly. Otoh, Richie Arnold looked good in France and turned out to be awful for the Wallabies.
- Fitness levels will be a problem for the ABs management. For example, even the top league in Europe (France's Top14) has a huge variance in focus on fitness from club to club.
@Tim What on Earth are NZR going to do when Wayne really does pack it in? He has been incredible in this type of role across NZ rugby.
Who is the next big brain in NZ? I wonder if Razor will ultimately take on this role once his head coaching days are behind him. WS will be mentoring him, so it isn't inconceivable.
@Canes4life I bloody impressed with Loves work and doing extras mate. That is the kind of commitment I want to see , and now I really on the Love wagon and hope he reaps the rewards. I always say the very good ones are the ones who do all these extras.
@stodders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
What on Earth are NZR going to do when Wayne really does pack it in?
They should start looking for his replacement now.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
What on Earth are NZR going to do when Wayne really does pack it in?
They should start looking for his replacement now.
Game changing stuff 
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
The ABs team Iād like to see in 2024 is
- Pouri Rakete-Stones
- Tyrone Thompson
- Joel Hintz
- Geoff Cridge
- IWL
- MMT
- Josh Kaifa
- Devan Flanders
- Folau Fakatava
- Lincoln McClutchie (captain / coach)
- Jonah Lowe
- Chase Tiatia
- Nick Grigg
- Ollie Sapsford
- Harry Goddfrey
I wanted to give it a like but Tiatia? Come on bro.
@stodders It's virtually impossible to train or mentor someone to be the next Wayne Smith. The best the NZR can do is get Smith to articulate and codify his unconventional approach to problem-solving in rugby (i.e. write a manual or loose framework). This is a difficult thing to do if you didn't think about it at the time (e.g. Now having to articulate how he came up with for example that defensive system that saved the ABs rwc cup campaign all those years ago, etc.). You know, memories fade. The other thing that NZR can do is is give the person or persons they tap to succeed Smith the same freedom (ito of time and space to in innovate) without feeling that one failure means the end.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
Danny, you are mixing metaphors. You are either on the love train or the shaggin wagon
::grinning_squinting_face: C.mon Grubs a man's got to mix something
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@stodders It's virtually impossible to train or mentor someone to be the next Wayne Smith.
I would go so far as to say it is outright impossible. Trying is futile. You can't teach innovation. And real innovators find their own mentors, because they are doing precisely not what was done before.
The most you can do it find the next one and, as you say, accept some failures on the way. That is a big call, and one most large organisations are terrible at.
We know the current "leaders" at NZ Rugby have opted for "safe" every time they have had any real choice.
Someone like Schmidt seems to have similar traits to Smith in terms of analysis and getting buy in. And is 10-15 years younger.
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
It's virtually impossible to train or mentor someone to be the next Wayne Smith.
Perhaps they should look to focus more on the outcome rather than the personnel? No reason why it has to be one person
@Chester-Draws Yeah, trying to find the next Wayne Smith is like trying to capture lightning in a bottle.
One thing that I've noticed about guys like Wayne Smith and Joe Schmidt is that after they have had a head coach gig they prefer roles that deliver high impact in a short amount of time. They're quite different to the guys who are stuck in the "I'm a head coach and I can't be anything other than a head coach" mode.
It's hard to innovate when you are the head honcho. There's too many other demands on your time and energy.
@Chester-Draws Exactly. I suspect that's part of the reason the guys who just go from head coach job to head coach job (without taking a short term consultant type job in between) seem to run out of fresh ideas after a while. You need time away from big picture stuff to just focus on specific aspects (to refresh the mind).
I also like the type of role Smith is starting where he can rotate in and out of different team environments. It seems made for him.