All Blacks 2024

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@antipodean I thought you had to have a certain number of caps to get a sabbatical anyway?

I suspect that you are correct. Since it doesn't seem to happen very often I can't recall a pattern other than NZR believe certain players are worth extending this opportunity to retain them.

Think it's probably 50/50 as to whether it's been successful at AB level so far too - but probably a lot more valuable lower at lower levels.

@Victor-Meldrew I don't think it would work for the ABs, bc:

1. The ABs play an uptempo/high octane style while in Europe they play a slower game. Much more suited to SA.
2. The European game is great for props and locks mostly. Otoh, Richie Arnold looked good in France and turned out to be awful for the Wallabies.
3. Fitness levels will be a problem for the ABs management. For example, even the top league in Europe (France's Top14) has a huge variance in focus on fitness from club to club.

@Tim What on Earth are NZR going to do when Wayne really does pack it in? He has been incredible in this type of role across NZ rugby.

Who is the next big brain in NZ? I wonder if Razor will ultimately take on this role once his head coaching days are behind him. WS will be mentoring him, so it isn't inconceivable.

@stodders They're going to employ me. Next question.

@Tim how is the Eden park DJ going to be executed?

@Bones Guillotine. I told him to use Sirius by The Alan Parsons Project.

@Canes4life I bloody impressed with Loves work and doing extras mate. That is the kind of commitment I want to see , and now I really on the Love wagon and hope he reaps the rewards. I always say the very good ones are the ones who do all these extras.

Is the word "am" going extinct or are we all moving to Yorkshire

@stodders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

What on Earth are NZR going to do when Wayne really does pack it in?

They should start looking for his replacement now.

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@stodders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

What on Earth are NZR going to do when Wayne really does pack it in?

They should start looking for his replacement now.

Game changing stuff

@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

The ABs team I’d like to see in 2024 is

1. Pouri Rakete-Stones
2. Tyrone Thompson
3. Joel Hintz
4. Geoff Cridge
5. IWL
6. MMT
7. Josh Kaifa
8. Devan Flanders
9. Folau Fakatava
10. Lincoln McClutchie (captain / coach)
11. Jonah Lowe
12. Chase Tiatia
13. Nick Grigg
14. Ollie Sapsford
15. Harry Goddfrey

I wanted to give it a like but Tiatia? Come on bro.

@stodders It's virtually impossible to train or mentor someone to be the next Wayne Smith. The best the NZR can do is get Smith to articulate and codify his unconventional approach to problem-solving in rugby (i.e. write a manual or loose framework). This is a difficult thing to do if you didn't think about it at the time (e.g. Now having to articulate how he came up with for example that defensive system that saved the ABs rwc cup campaign all those years ago, etc.). You know, memories fade. The other thing that NZR can do is is give the person or persons they tap to succeed Smith the same freedom (ito of time and space to in innovate) without feeling that one failure means the end.

@Dan54

Danny, you are mixing metaphors. You are either on the love train or the shaggin wagon

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Dan54

Danny, you are mixing metaphors. You are either on the love train or the shaggin wagon

::grinning_squinting_face: C.mon Grubs a man's got to mix something

@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@stodders It's virtually impossible to train or mentor someone to be the next Wayne Smith.

I would go so far as to say it is outright impossible. Trying is futile. You can't teach innovation. And real innovators find their own mentors, because they are doing precisely not what was done before.

The most you can do it find the next one and, as you say, accept some failures on the way. That is a big call, and one most large organisations are terrible at.

We know the current "leaders" at NZ Rugby have opted for "safe" every time they have had any real choice.

Someone like Schmidt seems to have similar traits to Smith in terms of analysis and getting buy in. And is 10-15 years younger.

@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

It's virtually impossible to train or mentor someone to be the next Wayne Smith.

Perhaps they should look to focus more on the outcome rather than the personnel? No reason why it has to be one person

@Chester-Draws Yeah, trying to find the next Wayne Smith is like trying to capture lightning in a bottle.

One thing that I've noticed about guys like Wayne Smith and Joe Schmidt is that after they have had a head coach gig they prefer roles that deliver high impact in a short amount of time. They're quite different to the guys who are stuck in the "I'm a head coach and I can't be anything other than a head coach" mode.

It's hard to innovate when you are the head honcho. There's too many other demands on your time and energy.

@Chester-Draws Exactly. I suspect that's part of the reason the guys who just go from head coach job to head coach job (without taking a short term consultant type job in between) seem to run out of fresh ideas after a while. You need time away from big picture stuff to just focus on specific aspects (to refresh the mind).

I also like the type of role Smith is starting where he can rotate in and out of different team environments. It seems made for him.

@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Chester-Draws Exactly. I suspect that's part of the reason the guys who just go from head coach job to head coach job (without taking a short term consultant type job in between) seem to run out of fresh ideas after a while. You need time away from big picture stuff to just focus on specific aspects (to refresh the mind).

I also like the type of role Smith is starting where he can rotate in and out of different team environments. It seems made for him.

Some guys just seem to be deep thinkers too. Smithy has been all over the world coaching, but also seems to be very curious and thoughtful when he interviews. Grant Fox is another guy who seems to be very thoughtful. Graham Henry had success as a coach and as a mentor for the Blues

@Victor-Meldrew The idea of multiple individuals or a group would be ideal.

Bit confused over the Joe Schmidt situation, was hearing a few months ago that he would be a selector and have role with the Blues, lately it seems he is a near certainty for the Aussie job. Will be a hell of a loss if he goes.

@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Bit confused over the Joe Schmidt situation, was hearing a few months ago that he would be a selector and have role with the Blues, lately it seems he is a near certainty for the Aussie job. Will be a hell of a loss if he goes.

That's a real shame - I would love for the NZRU to have the same focus on retaining our top coaching talent as well as our playing talent.

It's an odd double standard where are players are actively discouraged from going overseas while all our best coach's are encouraged to flee the country...

@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

while all our best coach's are encouraged to flee the country...

They are?

@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Bit confused over the Joe Schmidt situation, was hearing a few months ago that he would be a selector and have role with the Blues, lately it seems he is a near certainty for the Aussie job. Will be a hell of a loss if he goes.

That's a real shame - I would love for the NZRU to have the same focus on retaining our top coaching talent as well as our playing talent.

It's an odd double standard where are players are actively discouraged from going overseas while all our best coach's are encouraged to flee the country...

I think the issue is the lack of Super Rugby coaching spots. Inevitably lots of our coaching talent have to leave if they want a bigger gig

@Windows97 Yep mate but as @canefan says, what are they going to do with the coaches, there's 5 super teams? I actually think it's good for them to coach overseas to increase their experience etc of coaching different styles of rugby . Also by them getting experience overseas etc it actually brings through more coaches.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

while all our best coach's are encouraged to flee the country...

They are?

im assuming they mean all the talk about "international experience", razor being an obvious exception

That's a long list of staff.

2024 All Blacks Management
Scott Roberston (Head Coach)
Jason Ryan (Assistant Coach - Forwards)
Leon MacDonald (Assistant Coach - Attack)
Scott Hansen (Assistant Coach - Defence)
Jason Holland (Assistant Coach - Backs)
Tamati Ellison (Contact Skills Coach)
Wayne Smith (Performance Coach)
Jamie Hamilton (Head Performance Analyst)
Al Beeton (Assistant Performance Analyst)
Jon Gardner (Assistant Performance Analyst)
Ceri Evans (Head of Leadership + Mental Performance)
Nic Gill (Head of Performance)
Adam Hay (Performance Scientist)
Martin Swan (Doctor)
Karl McDonald (Lead Physiotherapist)
Teresa Te Tamaki (Assistant Physiotherapist)
Kat Darry (Dietician)
Paul McLaughlan (Team Manager)
Megan Compain (Commercial Manager)
James Iversen (Logistics Manager)
Matt Manukia (Communications Manager)

Note: Additional operations staff will support the Team Manager and Commercial Manager

@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

That's a long list of staff.

2024 All Blacks Management

Wayne Smith (Performance Coach)
Jamie Hamilton (Head Performance Analyst)
Al Beeton (Assistant Performance Analyst)
Jon Gardner (Assistant Performance Analyst)
Ceri Evans (Head of Leadership + Mental Performance)
Nic Gill (Head of Performance)
Adam Hay (Performance Scientist)

Seven of them. So we'll soon know if the magic number is eight...

Seven is the magic number

@Bovidae No scrum coach? How about kicking?

@Tim said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bovidae No scrum coach?

Ryan is doing that.

How about kicking?

Holland or MacDonald I assume.

Three of the new support staff are from the Chiefs. I suppose they are doing double-duty now.

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Seven of them. So we'll soon know if the magic number is eight...

That would be the Internal Coordination Performance Analyst gig which is clearly yet to be filled.

Disappointed Joe Schmidt isn't there in some capacity,

@SBW1

Perhaps Robertson wanted a fresh, younger coaching team?

I just think Razor wants his guys

@SBW1 he was given the opportunity. Didn’t want it. Said he couldn’t work with Razor.

im not adverse to Schmidt not being there, in fact i do wonder about so many big names in one kitchen but as long as Razor has picked them then fingers crossed

Wtf is a Performance Scientist?