All Blacks vs Fiji

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?

While everyone would prefer that out All Blacks were the bestest at every element f the game, I'm happy to take weapons at their core roles and for front row, that's scrummaging (which is currently a massive weapon/ game losing liability depending on capability) over making line breaks while thee opposition are fresh, willing and capable.

I think the payoff for the slightly more athletic guys comes around the 50th minute mark as per the adage you have to earn the right...

Yeah, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the scrum. The pack as a whole does need ball runners though - it's not really a strength right now.
We only have 3 locks (and 4 wingers, grumble grumble), and our guys are okay - there are not many who can be brutal runners and tall enough to be elite lineout forwards.
Savea is decent, kind of... but it's all leg drive and 2nd effort. More often than not you don't really gain quick ruck ball with the defence on the back foot from his runs, because he takes a long time to make a couple of extra metres and a long time to go to ground. The defensive line has plenty of time to align - so while it's amazing strength and effort, it doesn't actually achieve much.
Paps is a tackler, not a runner.
Finau is a hard straight runner, which is what we're lacking - but he ain't showing it yet. I reckon Sititi looks like the guy in the squad as far as loosies hitting it up goes, so hopefully he gets a run.
We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.

Ball running eh? Dry powder I say.

@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Maybe we should also compliment the English forwards?

...... Moreover, they were standing still when Christie threw them the pill. Did Ofa T and Newell won more meters from their carries ?

im not the only one that noticed this (probably talked about in the match thread)....very flat footed and often made it worse after they got the ball by doing a little two step on the before just leaning into the tackle

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?

While everyone would prefer that out All Blacks were the bestest at every element f the game, I'm happy to take weapons at their core roles and for front row, that's scrummaging (which is currently a massive weapon/ game losing liability depending on capability) over making line breaks while thee opposition are fresh, willing and capable.

I think the payoff for the slightly more athletic guys comes around the 50th minute mark as per the adage you have to earn the right...

Yeah, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the scrum. The pack as a whole does need ball runners though - it's not really a strength right now.
We only have 3 locks (and 4 wingers, grumble grumble), and our guys are okay - there are not many who can be brutal runners and tall enough to be elite lineout forwards.
Savea is decent, kind of... but it's all leg drive and 2nd effort. More often than not you don't really gain quick ruck ball with the defence on the back foot from his runs, because he takes a long time to make a couple of extra metres and a long time to go to ground. The defensive line has plenty of time to align - so while it's amazing strength and effort, it doesn't actually achieve much.
Paps is a tackler, not a runner.
Finau is a hard straight runner, which is what we're lacking - but he ain't showing it yet. I reckon Sititi looks like the guy in the squad as far as loosies hitting it up goes, so hopefully he gets a run.
We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.

I'm of the strongly held opinion that quick ruck ball would help alleviate these problems more than selectorial changes to the forwards. Even if the first couple don't make metres, good cleans and rapid movement of the ball overwhelms the defence. I.e. the antichristie selection.

@antipodean antichristie is pretty good bro.

totally agree that if the ball is quick and the defence is on the back foot then most anyone can make metres. I do think it helps a lot to have a couple of options to get you that initial bit of momentum though.

Your forwards also need to be getting the ball at pace, not being stationary and then trying to generate some forward momentum.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Your forwards also need to be getting the ball at pace, not being stationary and then trying to generate some forward momentum.

Yes, but as a runner you need confidence that when you can see the ball is available to start running safe in the knowledge the ball will quickly and accurately come to where you'll be.

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.

Unsure why they don't bring on Aumua earlier. Especially when Taylor is having a poorish game

Team needs better ball carriers. And passers.

Team gets named at 11am on Thursday.

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Team gets named at 11am on Thursday.

NZT? Or yank time?

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Team gets named at 11am on Thursday.

NZT? Or yank time?

NZ time

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Your forwards also need to be getting the ball at pace, not being stationary and then trying to generate some forward momentum.

Yes, but as a runner you need confidence that when you can see the ball is available to start running safe in the knowledge the ball will quickly and accurately come to where you'll be.

A fleet footed quick passing 9 is invaluable. As good as TJP was during SR, I don't think it was a coincidence that the Canes forwards seemed to be more lethal running in the first half of the season

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Lancaster-Park said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Yes but if Jordie goes down are we not in bigger trouble?
Seriously our entire backline activity changes completely if hes off.
ALB would take his place but he is a very different 12 and hes been playing at 13 when he comes on has he not?

Or put Proctor to 12?

if they play new people I hope they play them first in their preferred position.

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.

Unsure why they don't bring on Aumua earlier. Especially when Taylor is having a poorish game

Team needs better ball carriers. And passers.

Gotta say Aumua has looked good so far, and I think lineouts were better when he arrived? But I might have got that wrong..

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.

Unsure why they don't bring on Aumua earlier. Especially when Taylor is having a poorish game

Team needs better ball carriers. And passers.

Gotta say Aumua has looked good so far, and I think lineouts were better when he arrived? But I might have got that wrong..

Don't think he's lost a lineout so far. Hope he starts this week.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.

Unsure why they don't bring on Aumua earlier. Especially when Taylor is having a poorish game

Team needs better ball carriers. And passers.

Gotta say Aumua has looked good so far, and I think lineouts were better when he arrived? But I might have got that wrong..

Don't think he's lost a lineout so far. Hope he starts this week.

He did in test one. When he went to throw and stopped

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.

Unsure why they don't bring on Aumua earlier. Especially when Taylor is having a poorish game

Team needs better ball carriers. And passers.

Gotta say Aumua has looked good so far, and I think lineouts were better when he arrived? But I might have got that wrong..

Don't think he's lost a lineout so far. Hope he starts this week.

He did in test one. When he went to throw and stopped

True, he’s done what’s asked of him so far though tbh. Taylor seems to be struggling with form like Barrett and Savea so would be good to give Aumua a run.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.

Unsure why they don't bring on Aumua earlier. Especially when Taylor is having a poorish game

Team needs better ball carriers. And passers.

Gotta say Aumua has looked good so far, and I think lineouts were better when he arrived? But I might have got that wrong..

Don't think he's lost a lineout so far. Hope he starts this week.

He did in test one. When he went to throw and stopped

True, he’s done what’s asked of him so far though tbh. Taylor seems to be struggling with form like Barrett and Savea so would be good to give Aumua a run.

I don't know if Taylor is struggling with form? The lineout wasn't functioning in the second Test but that can hardly be attributed solely to Taylor.

That doesn't mean it's not worth giving Aumua a go by any means.

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Gotta say Aumua has looked good so far, and I think lineouts were better when he arrived? But I might have got that wrong..

Don't think he's lost a lineout so far. Hope he starts this week.

He did in test one. When he went to throw and stopped

yes sorry I was really thinking about test 2, should have qualified.

1. Tamaiti Williams (7)

2. Asafo Aumua (8)

3. Fletcher Newell (15)

4. Scott Barrett (71) (Captain)

5. Tupou Vaa’i (27)

6. Luke Jacobson (20)

7. Ethan Blackadder (10)

8. Ardie Savea (83) (Vice Captain)

9. Cortez Ratima (1)

10. Damian McKenzie (49)

11. Caleb Clarke (20)

12. Anton Lienert-Brown (72)

13. Billy Proctor (0)*

14. Sevu Reece (25)

15. Beauden Barrett (125)

16. George Bell (0)*

17. Ethan De Groot (24)

18. Pasilio Tosi (0)*

19. Sam Darry (0)*

20. Wallace Sititi (0)*

21. Noah Hotham (0)*

22. Jordie Barrett (59) (Vice Captain)

23. Emoni Narawa (1)

6 Newbies, is that a recent record?

Or did we have that in that Japan test a few years back.

Will likely be messy but still happy to see the debutants

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Will likely be messy but still happy to see the debutants

It's definitely a more exciting 23 than the first 2 tests.

7 Crusaders
7 Chiefs
5 Canes
3 Blues
1 Highlander

Noah's parents are currently in the UK watching the eldest son in the Touch World Cup before heading to Paris for the sevens. I wonder if they will be making a quick trip to San Diego now.

I'm really liking that loose forward trio. Probably better balanced than the first two tests IMO. Sititi coming off the bench for impact will be awesome.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

I'm really liking that loose forward trio. Probably better balanced than the first two tests IMO. Sititi coming off the bench for impact will be awesome.

By balance you mean three 7.5s ?

I see we no longer have a bench, we have "Impact"

Sounds pretty good

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

I'm really liking that loose forward trio. Probably better balanced than the first two tests IMO. Sititi coming off the bench for impact will be awesome.

Ethan at 7 feels slow. Hope he goes well, but I'd swap him and Luke.

My concern rests largely with the bench which is short of the experience required to steady the ship if this is in the balance with 20 to go.

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

I'm really liking that loose forward trio. Probably better balanced than the first two tests IMO. Sititi coming off the bench for impact will be awesome.

By balance you mean three 7.5s ?

It will be interesting to see who goes where when Sititi comes on. Does Savea move to 7? Blackadder can't be a realistic option at 6 if he isn't starting there.

This will be a mess with so many changes and debutants, should be too good for Fiji - who are struggling to get their team together - but messy open test. As long as not too error strewn it should be a fun one

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

I'm really liking that loose forward trio. Probably better balanced than the first two tests IMO. Sititi coming off the bench for impact will be awesome.

Ethan at 7 feels slow. Hope he goes well, but I'd swap him and Luke.

Richie McCaw was slow, he was still effective. Considering Ethan's the GOAT, I think he'll do just fine.

I like it. However I agree that Jordie and Proctor in the centres would have made more sense.

That explains who the 2nd 6 in the squad is then

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

I'm really liking that loose forward trio. Probably better balanced than the first two tests IMO. Sititi coming off the bench for impact will be awesome.

By balance you mean three 7.5s ?

i am looking forward to caners hammering A Savea next year when he is a Blues player

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

I'm really liking that loose forward trio. Probably better balanced than the first two tests IMO. Sititi coming off the bench for impact will be awesome.

By balance you mean three 7.5s ?

i am looking forward to caners hammering A Savea next year when he is a Blues player

Rancid bait!

@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

6 Newbies, is that a recent record?

Only 84 caps on the bench impact would be a low for some time.