All Blacks 2025

@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:

@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:

View embedded content

Interesting article. And the comments section had similar sentiment to what I read on here

It’s not a fair comparison - Rassie has been there 6 years. Razor’s 1st season.

Rassie has the freedom to do what he wants based on his success. Razor has been given a lot of support but has yet to build up a body of success that will allow him to do what he wants and not have any scrutiny.

Case in point, he gives the springbok captaincy to Saalman Moerat on his 7th cap. Why? It seems a crazy decision to give it to a relative unknown above more deserving Boks. They lost the game. Rassie is not questioned.

Can you imagine Razor doing that with a player of similar test caps?

Boks had quite a few injuries, have a weird 12 month season where they have to rest players due to workload as players come together from SA, Japan, Europe and they recognise they have to blood new players due to an ageing squad.

They used 9 players more than us this year? Or around 18% more. 52 in total, but have only really added Fassi as a player who has arguably taken ownership of a starting jersey.

It would be interesting stat would be the spread of minutes as opposed to just number of players. A guy like plummer being counted as a new player with like 25 seconds is not the same as a guy getting a start.

@DaGrubster I think people would have understood if he tried some of the form players in SR. Not doing so, instead picking old stagers, along with some homer picks and losing matches anyway eroded much of his goodwill

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:

It would be interesting stat would be the spread of minutes as opposed to just number of players. A guy like plummer being counted as a new player with like 25 seconds is not the same as a guy getting a start.

Likewise - only played against Japan or Fiji.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:

It would be interesting stat would be the spread of minutes as opposed to just number of players. A guy like plummer being counted as a new player with like 25 seconds is not the same as a guy getting a start.

Yeah certainly makes Razor look better in that regard with no context involved. Guys like Bell, Proctor, Love, Lakai and Hotham barely played at all.

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:

The team which will play in NZ next July will be a team of no names but it will be stronger than expected by most of the Ferners.

Their series in Aust in 2021 was a good example of that. The pressure will be all on the ABs.

I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with. If it's a test match where possible put the players on field you think will win the game. Age old or young shouldn't come into it, what a player will contribute towards winning said test should be the marker!

@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster I think people would have understood if he tried some of the form players in SR. Not doing so, instead picking old stagers, along with some homer picks and losing matches anyway eroded much of his goodwill

I agree. Players like Sititi/Lakai, Tosi Darry to a lesser extent, have shown that super rugby does produce players who can excel at test rugby. We need to put more faith into it and not get hung up on experience for experience sake.

Razor went down the experience route this year. I hope he has seen he can put his trust into younger players next year.

Perhaps one of the reasons for Rassie using more players is that he could afford to as they had an easier year of fixtures than the All Blacks

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with. If it's a test match where possible put the players on field you think will win the game. Age old or young shouldn't come into it, what a player will contribute towards winning said test should be the marker!

I can see why he wanted to pick certain players such as TJ and Cane.

Cane to a lesser extent because he hadn’t played since February with a back injury but he was in and around the squad at Razor’s first squad naming which may have made it harder for Scott Barrett to put his own stamp on the team as
Captain.

Both have now gone and the only real veterans are Taylor and B Barrett

Taylor has proved his worth this year and we should have 3 world class hookers in the squad next year barring injury.

I agree with your sentiment about winning test match now. Winning test matches creates a positive team culture and with rugby being so attritional, there will always be a need for a large squad to cover injuries and workload.

Razor hasn’t been as good as I expected him to be. We saw how good his team can be at times and I am looking for him to now kick on and see the ABs improve next year in Razors second year.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with

as I expect many do, sadly, it is a reality of where the game is at currently, and has been for some time now, so does need to be a focus.

I'd take the 'choker' tag of winning everything in between RWCs that losing all sorts of random games we shouldnt lose, vs winning the RWC.

@taniwharugby does it have to be a choice? Want cake and eat it.

@Machpants Interesting how the article goes from a analysis of Razors selections to a highly specific analysis on Jordie Barrett's 40 minutes of game time for Leinster - perhaps something more relevant to Holland & his ingame tactics?.

On that topic, it is lovely to watch Jordie showing what he really can offer - after a tough ABs season of pretty much exclusively running hard straight lines with Rieko on his shoulder doing the exact same thing, his distribution was not something that shone through

My disappointment with Razor is that he has a full 12 months between finishing up at the Crusaders and starting the ABs job

I was hoping that unprecedented lead in time would mean he would hit the ground running more than he has in terms of selection.

He has selected the squad as if he got thrown the job on short notice straight off the back of a Super Rugby campaign.

"Razor has been selecting players he knows"

Well what was he doing for 12 months between finishing up at the Crusaders and starting the ABs.

He had 12 months to try and learn as much as possible about other franchises and what they do.

I'm sceptical that much is going to change in year 2.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with.

but it wasn't just that for WC-building, but beyond this year! And Cane came back from Japan so really got a special gold card entry into the team! Were the Cane and TJP picks the best for this year, looking back? Sounds like the beginning of a hotly contested Fern thread. But they certainly are not helping 2025 All Blacks..

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with.

but it wasn't just that for WC-building, but beyond this year! And Cane came back from Japan so really got a special gold card entry into the team! Were the Cane and TJP picks the best for this year, looking back? Sounds like the beginning of a hotly contested Fern thread. But they certainly are not helping 2025 All Blacks..

Agree they not helping 2025 ABs, except to perhaps help with bringing young fellas through. But not their job, their job was to do what they could to help the 2024 team win tests. See what concerns me is the idea if a player is retiring at end of this or next year we decide not to pick him, that is not how it should ever be.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:

My disappointment with Razor is that he has a full 12 months between finishing up at the Crusaders and starting the ABs job

I was hoping that unprecedented lead in time would mean he would hit the ground running more than he has in terms of selection.

He has selected the squad as if he got thrown the job on short notice straight off the back of a Super Rugby campaign.

"Razor has been selecting players he knows"

Well what was he doing for 12 months between finishing up at the Crusaders and starting the ABs.

He had 12 months to try and learn as much as possible about other franchises and what they do.

I'm sceptical that much is going to change in year 2.

100% this

ive also seen the comments about not having scouted people and so playing it safe and was thinking to myself WTF had he been doing? Hell, if local club teams scout their opposition then i would expect he would have all the top players in NZ already scouted when he was crusader coach let alone the time in between gigs

There might be some cheap used Ford Rangers on the market soon. Ford is ending their sponsorship.

Ford confirmed the end of its New Zealand rugby sponsorship, stating, "We are incredibly proud to have been a sponsor of the All Blacks and NZ Rugby for over 30 years. However, the decision has been made to conclude our partnership in 2025." They expressed disappointment at the separation but reflected positively on their experience, acknowledging the strong relationships forged with athletes and fans alike. In their farewell, Ford assured support for players during the transition period.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:

There might be some cheap used Ford Rangers on the market soon. Ford is ending their sponsorship.

Ford confirmed the end of its New Zealand rugby sponsorship, stating, "We are incredibly proud to have been a sponsor of the All Blacks and NZ Rugby for over 30 years. However, the decision has been made to conclude our partnership in 2025." They expressed disappointment at the separation but reflected positively on their experience, acknowledging the strong relationships forged with athletes and fans alike. In their farewell, Ford assured support for players during the transition period.

So, this extra revenue from Silverlake is probably just consultants telling the NZRU to shake down sponsors. If it works, they could land some really big names; let's hope they don't chase away the firms that had a commitment to the team (brand).

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with.

but it wasn't just that for WC-building, but beyond this year! And Cane came back from Japan so really got a special gold card entry into the team! Were the Cane and TJP picks the best for this year, looking back? Sounds like the beginning of a hotly contested Fern thread. But they certainly are not helping 2025 All Blacks..

Agree they not helping 2025 ABs, except to perhaps help with bringing young fellas through. But not their job, their job was to do what they could to help the 2024 team win tests. See what concerns me is the idea if a player is retiring at end of this or next year we decide not to pick him, that is not how it should ever be.

There's is now way we needed cane and TJ versus Italy. That is indefensible apart from sentiment

@gt12 so Ford & Steinlager moving on, or Silverlake moving them on?

@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with.

but it wasn't just that for WC-building, but beyond this year! And Cane came back from Japan so really got a special gold card entry into the team! Were the Cane and TJP picks the best for this year, looking back? Sounds like the beginning of a hotly contested Fern thread. But they certainly are not helping 2025 All Blacks..

Agree they not helping 2025 ABs, except to perhaps help with bringing young fellas through. But not their job, their job was to do what they could to help the 2024 team win tests. See what concerns me is the idea if a player is retiring at end of this or next year we decide not to pick him, that is not how it should ever be.

There's is now way we needed cane and TJ versus Italy. That is indefensible apart from sentiment

It's bonkers, and we wonder why players continue to leave NZ rugby.

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:

@gt12 so Ford & Steinlager moving on, or Silverlake moving them on?

Better not be replace by Chevrolet and miller lite!

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:

@gt12 so Ford & Steinlager moving on, or Silverlake moving them on?

Better not be replace by Chevrolet and miller lite!

Ugh

@DaGrubster Cadillac and Budweiser!

Bud Light

@booboo

I actually heard Razor is pushing for the ABs to be sponsored by Canterbury Drought and Canterbury Clothing, hence Steinlager pulling the pin because they are feeling they are not getting a decent opportunity to show what they can do. Adidas are getting the jitters because Ryan feels fat in their clothes and is more comfortable wearing CCC. And Hansen hates Rangers and loves motorbikes, so the ABs will be riding around on Britten's soon.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with.

but it wasn't just that for WC-building, but beyond this year! And Cane came back from Japan so really got a special gold card entry into the team! Were the Cane and TJP picks the best for this year, looking back? Sounds like the beginning of a hotly contested Fern thread. But they certainly are not helping 2025 All Blacks..

I think Cane especially was like Henry bringing the Suitcase back into the team as much for his value off the field. But, Cane actually did a fairly decent job on the field this year if anti-Cane blinkers are removed.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:

There might be some cheap used Ford Rangers on the market soon. Ford is ending their sponsorship.

Ford confirmed the end of its New Zealand rugby sponsorship, stating, "We are incredibly proud to have been a sponsor of the All Blacks and NZ Rugby for over 30 years. However, the decision has been made to conclude our partnership in 2025." They expressed disappointment at the separation but reflected positively on their experience, acknowledging the strong relationships forged with athletes and fans alike. In their farewell, Ford assured support for players during the transition period.

Plummer, Sotutu, Stevenson, Ford. What wont Razor chase away?

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with.

but it wasn't just that for WC-building, but beyond this year! And Cane came back from Japan so really got a special gold card entry into the team! Were the Cane and TJP picks the best for this year, looking back? Sounds like the beginning of a hotly contested Fern thread. But they certainly are not helping 2025 All Blacks..

I think Cane especially was like Henry bringing the Suitcase back into the team as much for his value off the field. But, Cane actually did a fairly decent job on the field this year if anti-Cane blinkers are removed.

yeah, happy to admit cane played well, my argument this year it seemed really shirt sited though, just wanting to win (not sure he was even the different between winning and losing)..you know?...could these have been games where someone else got the much vaulted experience

I am curious to see what changes are going to take place in the midfield. I hope AJ Lam will keep on developing and be a real contender for the starting XV. The presence of of big munter (à la TUJ or T. Telea) could add something different.

@cgrant do you think Razor will drop a Barrett?

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@cgrant do you think Razor will drop a Barrett?

No, but he'd drop an Ioane

@nzzp No, but there is a world, where Jordie Barrett ends back up at fullback I reckon. We have uncertainty at 15, naturally Higgins and Proctor will probably rip it up in the midfield for the Canes etc. etc.

@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp No, but there is a world, where Jordie Barrett ends back up at fullback I reckon. We have uncertainty at 15, naturally Higgins and Proctor will probably rip it up in the midfield for the Canes etc. etc.

I'm picking Higgins to be the big mover in 2025, not many centres in NZ have the ability to use footwork and the offload like he does to open up opposition defence structures. A big work on for him though is his defence, Super will be a good test to see where he's at.

@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp No, but there is a world, where Jordie Barrett ends back up at fullback I reckon. We have uncertainty at 15, naturally Higgins and Proctor will probably rip it up in the midfield for the Canes etc. etc.

I think New Zealand need to end their fixation with the Barretts. On form this year Jordie was pretty rubbish both for the Canes and ABs, Barrett was mediocre and S Barrett was the same. We won't get back to our best until we start picking players on form, not past reputation which B Barrett has been dining out on for years now.

@Canes4life hopefully JB can rediscover something in Ireland, because I agree he's regressed over the last year or so. Or does Razor's pattern have something to do with it?

Yeah when JB was looking good for Canes/ABs, it was when he was being used as a second five, not as a lock in the backline.

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

Yeah when JB was looking good for Canes/ABs, it was when he was being used as a second five, not as a lock in the backline.

Razor has many work ons

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:

I actually heard Razor is pushing for the ABs to be sponsored by Canterbury Drought

Hopefully not