@frugby said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@tubbyj If Moananu is so good then why can’t he get a run for the Waratahs?
He is out with a shoulder injury?
@pakman said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@brodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
In terms of Parker I saw him as a potential AB last year however I do think that if Blackadder is fit he is likely to be in the squad as the starting 6 with Savea at 7 and Sititi at 8. Jason Ryan loves him some Blackadder and I can't see him looking past him. Personally I'd like to see someone like Parker in the squad over Blackadder but I'll be shocked if it happens.
Haig hasn't had a lot of game time this year. I do think there is a place for Finau and Parker in the squad.
I don't see Razor and co going for a tight 6 under their game plan. They picked Blackadder, Finau, and Sititi as starters last year. They're looking for mobile guys.
In terms of workrate Finau, Parker and Haig are very much alike compared to Blackadder. Finau is highly effective at attacking rucks and Parker in defensive rucks. With regards to Blackadder the coaches seem to be more interested in volume as opposed to actual impact. He's always been a high volume low impact guy.
Contact Involvements per 80 Minutes Loose Forwards ( Carries + Tackles + Rucks )
69.25 Ethan Blackadder
61.62 Corey Kellow
61.0 Tom Christie
58.87 Dalton Papali'i
58.51 Du'Plessis Kirifi
58.41 Sean Withy
56.02 Jahrome Brown
54.84 Peter Lakai
53.63 Ardie Savea
52.35 Vaiolini Ekuasi
52.17 Luke Jacobson
50.6 Cullen Grace
48.87 Christian Lio-Willie
48.33 Brayden Iose
47.89 Kaylum Boshier
47.36 Hugh Renton
45.14 Hoskins Sotutu
44.21 Simon Parker
42.27 Oliver Haig
39.32 Samipeni FinauTop 20 Loose Forward Players by Rucks Per 80 minutes
35.24 Dalton Papali'i
35.19 Ethan Blackadder
33.57 Sean Withy
31.78 Corey Kellow
31.4 Du'Plessis Kirifi
29.68 Tom Christie
29.13 Jahrome Brown
27.87 Ardie Savea
26.91 Luke Jacobson
25.77 Peter Lakai
25.44 Kaylum Boshier
23.85 Cullen Grace
23.35 Simon Parker
22.39 Vaiolini Ekuasi
21.74 Oliver Haig
20.72 Christian Lio-Willie
20.28 Samipeni Finau
20.0 Brayden Iose
19.95 Hoskins Sotutu
16.75 Hugh RentonTop 20 Loose Forward Players by Attacking Ruck Effectiveness
91.8% Samipeni Finau
91.3% Tom Christie
90.2% Dalton Papali'i
90.2% Vaiolini Ekuasi
88.1% Ardie Savea
87.8% Peter Lakai
87.6% Jahrome Brown
86.9% Christian Lio-Willie
85.9% Hoskins Sotutu
85.9% Du'Plessis Kirifi
85.2% Brayden Iose
85.1% Luke Jacobson
85.0% Sean Withy
84.5% Corey Kellow
84.5% Oliver Haig
83.1% Simon Parker
82.6% Hugh Renton
81.9% Cullen Grace
81.5% Ethan Blackadder
77.3% Kaylum BoshierTop 20 Loose Forward Players by Defensive Ruck Effectiveness
29.6% Simon Parker
23.9% Luke Jacobson
23.1% Kaylum Boshier
22.4% Du'Plessis Kirifi
21.9% Samipeni Finau
20.1% Ardie Savea
17.6% Cullen Grace
17.3% Dalton Papali'i
16.1% Tom Christie
15.2% Jahrome Brown
14.8% Christian Lio-Willie
14.7% Sean Withy
13.1% Peter Lakai
12.1% Hoskins Sotutu
12.0% Corey Kellow
11.8% Vaiolini Ekuasi
9.1% Brayden Iose
8.3% Hugh Renton
7.4% Ethan Blackadder
0.0% Oliver HaigTop 20 Loose Forward Players by Dominant Tackle %
16.5% Simon Parker
11.5% Samipeni Finau
8.0% Hugh Renton
7.9% Ardie Savea
7.1% Brayden Iose
6.2% Christian Lio-Willie
6.0% Ethan Blackadder
5.8% Hoskins Sotutu
5.5% Peter Lakai
5.3% Sean Withy
4.4% Kaylum Boshier
4.4% Corey Kellow
4.3% Du'Plessis Kirifi
4.2% Luke Jacobson
3.5% Jahrome Brown
3.4% Cullen Grace
3.3% Tom Christie
3.3% Dalton Papali'i
2.0% Oliver Haig
0.0% Vaiolini EkuasiStats from Opta theanalyst.
2026 stats would be interesting.
Well Parker turned out to be a dud at test level so far. Though for me it was more 7 that was the real problem position last year particularly in defence.
@brodean Not sure I'd agree with such a stark conclusion.
Sure, he's not in conventional highlights reels. But if you treat him as a blunt instrument, to be used appropriately, I think he added to ABs.
His role as a strong cleaner and mauler, added to workmanlike running and tackling, IMO was a valuable element of our comprehensive win in Boks I last year. Worth noting that PSDT was noticeably subdued in that one.
Not a good scrummager.
He'd be in my AB squad, even though not starring at 8 for Chiefs.
I dunno about Parker. He's certainly big enough, but he's not exactly explosive and it's not often that he runs at the line with real intent - so I'm not sure his gainline success in Super translates to running at guys his own size at test level. If you take the Mauss categories, for me he ends up looking a bit neither high impact or high workrate really.
He tends to rumble forwards rather than go backwards though, and is good at binding on other players to help grab an extra few metres. A big body and solid tackler in close who doesn't get knocked backwards is valuable, but I think he might get exposed in space as his feet look a bit on the slow side. Does some good things, generally cleans well too, and could be part of the puzzle I guess, but I'm not convinced yet.
@reprobate said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
it's not often that he runs at the line with real intent
sadly that is true of so many in NZ rugby.
I've always thought Parker lacked a bit of spark, mongrel and aggro, if he could add that and up his workrate a little, he could be exceptional, has the tools, just need them used correctly.
I agree – a lot of the loose forwards at the moment fall into two camps: explosive but undersized, or big-bodied but not especially dynamic. The balance isn’t quite right. Ideally, you want players who can bring both – size and impact – or at least a trio that combines to give you that presence.
The worst thing they could do is keep stacking the loose forward unit with multiple smaller players and hope their energy makes up for it. It might work in patches, but against top sides, it leaves them short on physicality.
The bigger players are the key. They don’t necessarily need replacing – they need to lift their work rate and/or physical intent. If they can bring more edge and urgency, the pack can be both powerful and dynamic, rather than one or the other.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
I agree – a lot of the loose forwards at the moment fall into two camps: explosive but undersized, or big-bodied but not especially dynamic. The balance isn’t quite right. Ideally, you want players who can bring both – size and impact – or at least a trio that combines to give you that presence.
The worst thing they could do is keep stacking the loose forward unit with multiple smaller players and hope their energy makes up for it. It might work in patches, but against top sides, it leaves them short on physicality.
The bigger players are the key. They don’t necessarily need replacing – they need to lift their work rate and/or physical intent. If they can bring more edge and urgency, the pack can be both powerful and dynamic, rather than one or the other.
Finau is big and explosive. Most photos of him next to Tupou Vaa'i suggest he is the same height and probably a bit heavier.
Yeah, and the other thing is effective use of the bench e.g. get a Finau to play 40 mins and empty the tank with 10 hard carries, vs what we often see with bringing an EB/LJ/DP type on for 20 minutes at the end when a big part of their strength and the reason they are selected is huge workrate over 80. Don't sub those guys or use them as subs. Use the big fellas, and don't put up with them fading in and out of the game over 80.
On form, Devan Flanders has to be in the conversation for that All Black 6 or 8 position. He's pretty much exactly the same size as K Read now that he's hitting his peak. Really like the physicality he's brought to his game this year, but his ability to run in the wider channels and put others away has also been very impressive.
Could a 6. Finau 7. Lakai and 8. Flanders combo work on the big stage? I'd love to see it, especially if Finau brings that brute force. Below is how each of those players match up to the 2015 loose trio that won our last WC.
- Jerome Kaino 1.96m, 110kg / Samipeni Finau is 1.96m, 115kg
- Richie McCaw 1.87m, 107kg / Peter Lakai 1.86m, 108kg
- Kieran Read 1.93m, 111kg / Devan Flanders 1.93m, 110kg
@Canes4life although I expect #7 Ardie Savea
@Bovidae said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
Kaino was shorter than Read.
Maybe I’ve got those heights the wrong way around. Can someone confirm their heights?
@taniwharugby said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@Canes4life although I expect #7 Ardie Savea
Most likely will happen. Lakai and him can simply swap around if that’s the case.
@Bovidae said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
Kaino was shorter than Read.
If they are similar in height and weight, the size of their motor and their mongrel level are more important. No point in being big when you have a pea sized heart
@reprobate said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
Yeah, and the other thing is effective use of the bench e.g. get a Finau to play 40 mins and empty the tank with 10 hard carries, vs what we often see with bringing an EB/LJ/DP type on for 20 minutes at the end when a big part of their strength and the reason they are selected is huge workrate over 80. Don't sub those guys or use them as subs. Use the big fellas, and don't put up with them fading in and out of the game over 80.
This was part of Robertson’s conservative approach to selection - the bench existed mainly to cover early injuries, with no real consideration of alternative uses.
@canefan said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@Bovidae said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
Kaino was shorter than Read.
If they are similar in height and weight, the size of their motor and their mongrel level are more important. No point in being big when you have a pea sized heart
It's about making the jersey better
@brodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
So has Opta not added Super Rugby stats to the Club Stats because its been deemed not even worth bothering with?
Dunno eh, those stats were good. Someone who is on twitter could send him a message and find out.
