2025 All Blacks v France series

@Steven-Harris said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@Victor-Meldrew can remember when full strength All Black teams touring France use to struggle to put away French Divisional teams during the 80s and 90s ..
France have always had depth but issues in and around coaching and selection

These days the have 30 professional clubs including aligned academy’s
Money also trumps anything we see down here in NZ

They are also strategically recruiting big talented kids from Aussie and NZ too. The French systems are pretty impressive!

@Steven-Harris said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@Victor-Meldrew can remember when full strength All Black teams touring France use to struggle to put away French Divisional teams during the 80s and 90s ..
France have always had depth but issues in and around coaching and selection

These days the have 30 professional clubs including aligned academy’s
Money also trumps anything we see down here in NZ

It isn't just money though. The FFR seems to have an actual plan.

@Victor-Meldrew no question but you must also remember throw 560,000 registered rugby players across 6 divisions a strong economy unlike NZ that has an economy that’s less than ideal at a time when young men working need to put food on the table or look at other options

Basketball is one of the faster growing sports in NZ taking many tall athletes off in a different direction ,also Rugby League with the popular NRL right on our doorstep with increased salaries that better anything the rugby in NZ offers under All Black level will also drag many promising rugby players to the 13 man game

Rugby at grassroots level is on life support at the minute

@Steven-Harris said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

Basketball is one of the faster growing sports in NZ taking many tall athletes off in a different direction ,also Rugby League with the popular NRL right on our doorstep

I've been hearing that for about 30 years...

@Steven-Harris

Reading Foster's book on @His-Bobness recommendation. Deserves a thread of its' own, but it's an indictment of NZR and it's lack of competence, in-fighting and putting commercial interests above the game.

@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@Steven-Harris said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

Basketball is one of the faster growing sports in NZ taking many tall athletes off in a different direction ,also Rugby League with the popular NRL right on our doorstep

I've been hearing that for about 30 years...

Luckily there is a really good system bringing absolute units in from old Zealand

Btw, the weird thing about the French approach to this series is how do you explain to the players who acquited themselves well in Dunedin why they were left out for the second test. Dropping 10 players from the first test makes absolutely no sense from a team building point of view.

Players want to play and they want to win, I'm just not sure how you sell players on being part of a project that is pretty incoherent.

@nonpartizan devil's advocate being you're selecting a lot of young players and they all know they're going to get a taste (as well as giving them a wage boost and locking them in).

Would love to see Love get a go at 10 next week. Nothing to lose really given Beauden's game tonight and with Roigard's kicking game quite low risk.

@Steven-Harris said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

Money also trumps anything we see down here in NZ

It's true but one thing NZ has that no other country can match is heritage, tradition and pride in the jersey.

To me the respective approaches to this series speak to how New Zealand have something that the French will never be able to buy or throw money at.

The word I would use is integrity.

@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

And it allows them to develop depth while devaluing test rugby. It doesn't help that we then can't pump them the way they deserve

But doesn't it speak volumes about the levels of NZ & French Rugby that we struggle to put away a French development team?

Thats the point I was trying to make, poorly in hindsight

Vaa'i did well for his try. He's probably deceptively fast but he definitely runs like a lock and not a loose forward.

Him at 6 is working well for the ABs. He went a bit better this week. Maybe PT in at lock helped with that.

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

Vaa'i did well for his try. He's probably deceptively fast but he definitely runs like a lock and not a loose forward.

Thought he did a pretty decent job of mimicking PSDT tonight.

@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

Vaa'i did well for his try. He's probably deceptively fast but he definitely runs like a lock and not a loose forward.

Thought he did a pretty decent job of mimicking PSDT tonight.

That's high praise. He's coming along nicely. Need to see how he goes against a top 3 A team. He should get a chance soon against the Saffas.

@brodean just the rangy hitting of lines/rucks/tackles was a bit of a reminder.

Hoping it isn’t mass changes next week, as I’d like to see guys fill some roles…

1. de Groot
2. Taukei’aho
3. Newell (Lomax)
4. Vaa’i
5. Holland
6. Jacobson
7. Kirifi
8. Savea
9. Roigard
10. Love
11. Ioane
12. Tupaea
13. Proctor
14. Narawa
15. Jordan
16. McAllister
17. Norris
18. Tosi
19. Tuipulotu
20. Finau
21. Hotham
22. Tavatavanawai
23. McKenzie

When bigger tests roll around, I still think Tuipulotu would be best used as your impact man - Scott Barrett will rise to the challenge. Finau gets one last chance, and possibly edging to that territory for Kirifi so I’d start him to get a proper read.

PT runs a better lineout than Barrett and is a better lineout jumper.

PT better on the carry and Barrett better at the breakdown.

@brodean hopefully another good run next week and good leadership from Ardie and the heat will be on Scott.

@frugby I think it would be pretty unfair to give Kirifi his one start amongst a fairly small back 5 overall. At the very least swap Finau with Jacobson, or just have the same 4/5/6 as this week.

I'd like to see Hotham and Love given significant game time next week.

@taniwharugby said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@brodean hopefully another good run next week and good leadership from Ardie and the heat will be on Scott.

Who is more of a certain pick at the moment? I know who I favour.
I'm not a Crusader supporter but I'm not sure how SB is a better pick at Captain than Ardie apart from his history and clearly close relationship with the coaches. But that is a good reason.

@Bones gut feeling is that Kirifi hasn’t taken his chance, and will be usurped by Lakai when he returns. Be good to see him given a proper go this week though.

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

PT runs a better lineout than Barrett and is a better lineout jumper.

PT better on the carry and Barrett better at the breakdown.

PT must be pretty bloody good then.

@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@Bones gut feeling is that Kirifi hasn’t taken his chance, and will be usurped by Lakai when he returns. Be good to see him given a proper go this week though.

Yeah Kirifi seems to have the unwanted "busy but ineffective" Blackadder tag, unfortunately you can also add "small" to that.

Griping with the ref and not getting turnovers. Did he actually do anything of note ?

Would love him to prove me wrong next week.

@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@Bones gut feeling is that Kirifi hasn’t taken his chance, and will be usurped by Lakai when he returns. Be good to see him given a proper go this week though.

He took quite a long time to become a dominant force at SR level too. Unfortunately you don't get that opportunity in test rugby, especially at his age. I get the feeling he's doing his best to do the role given, but it probably doesn't suit him and he needs to just go out rip shit n bust.

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

Vaa'i did well for his try. He's probably deceptively fast but he definitely runs like a lock and not a loose forward.

Don't get style points. It's not how, it's how many.

@Duluth said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

View embedded content

What absolute nonsense

France did far better than any pundit predicted and will go forward with a huge playing base

@MiketheSnow

Yeah the reaction to a disjointed AB side has been strangely positive in the media.

Robertson might say a bit of stuff about what the team has learned from the series but the real question is whether or not they apply that knowledge in the future. I look forward to the improved tactical kicking, better use of the bench and game plan adaptability.

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

I look forward to the improved tactical kicking, better use of the bench and game plan adaptability.

Yep, and I expect to win lotto this weekend.

@Duluth said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

View embedded content

Fair comment about the tactically poor appreciation of the space provided by France with both their wingers up and a shallow fullback.

Kicking in New Zealand rugby is as poor as I've ever seen it.

@antipodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@Duluth said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

View embedded content

Fair comment about the tactically poor appreciation of the space provided by France with both their wingers up and a shallow fullback.

Kicking in New Zealand rugby is as poor as I've ever seen it.

We've never recovered since DC. Everyone remembers his amazing running game and focus on getting someone who can razzle dazzle, but they forget he was a very good kicker and alround tactical 10 as well

I thought DMac played a solid game on the weekend. His kicking game was much stronger than BBs, he just didn't have much x factor. I don't mind that, and I'd like to see him get a run with Roigard and the top team

@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

I thought DMac played a solid game on the weekend. His kicking game was much stronger than BBs, he just didn't have much x factor. I don't mind that, and I'd like to see him get a run with Roigard and the top team

The backline didn’t look as smooth with DMac at 10, particularly the out the back plays close to the line that opened up the French defence so well, looked noticeably disjointed in this test.

The tries scored were not nearly as well constructed as in the previous tests. The grubber that resulted in Kirifis try was a dirt poor option that was made to look good by the French 15 fumbling it and Reece stripping it. The ALB try didn’t scream the smooth and well constructed out the back plays we saw in the previous two tests either. No real excuses for Dmac with a 9,11,13 combo he was very familiar with.

Dmac has also been targeted under the high ball and it’s a clear vulnerability in the ABs backfield. The Crusaders did it in the final and the international teams will target him.

But we’re stuck between rock and a hard place with Barrett and McKenzie. Either Love or someone else has to step up

@jimmyb said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

I thought DMac played a solid game on the weekend. His kicking game was much stronger than BBs, he just didn't have much x factor. I don't mind that, and I'd like to see him get a run with Roigard and the top team

But we’re stuck between rock and a hard place with Barrett and McKenzie. Either Love or someone else has to step up

I’d like to see them give Love (given he’s the options they have in squad right now) significant game time throughout the Rugby Championship, introducing him from the bench with more and more minutes each game as the tournament goes on and eventually starting, until it’s clear whether or not he’s the best option going forward. No point in mucking around with Barrett for another two years.

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@jimmyb said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

I thought DMac played a solid game on the weekend. His kicking game was much stronger than BBs, he just didn't have much x factor. I don't mind that, and I'd like to see him get a run with Roigard and the top team

But we’re stuck between rock and a hard place with Barrett and McKenzie. Either Love or someone else has to step up

I’d like to see them give Love (given he’s the options they have in squad right now) significant game time throughout the Rugby Championship, introducing him from the bench with more and more minutes each game as the tournament goes on and eventually starting, until it’s clear whether or not he’s the best option going forward. No point in mucking around with Barrett for another two years.

Agreed. Neither Barrett nor McKenzie are capable of winning a team a World Cup

@jimmyb to be fair, DMax was playing with the B team, no wonder it was clunky. I'm not totally convinced either, but he needs a decent run with the top team to see if he can lift his level. Starting BB is just wasting opportunities to look at other prospects

@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

@jimmyb to be fair, DMax was playing with the B team, no wonder it was clunky. I'm not totally convinced either, but he needs a decent run with the top team to see if he can lift his level. Starting BB is just wasting opportunities to look at other prospects

Exactly that, it's a shit call to say he had as good an opportunity as BB, when a vastly different team was rolled out. BB had the benefit of having DMac in his backline too...

I'd go so far as to say it's shit management by the All Black coaches to not do a little mix and match across the three games so no particular Test you could say one was full strength. You want to see how players go when substituted in with considerable first choice experience around them. To see if they're the weak link or could be a multiplier.

I'm starting to believe that they're little more than fucking idiots.