2025 All Blacks v France series

@Landers92

Back three is an interesting one in terms of selection strategy.

Laurie Mains and Steve Hansen went with the guys in form.

John Mitchell liked raw pace.

John Hart went with what he thought were the natural players and believed he could gel them.

Graham Henry and Ian Foster were willingly to stick guys who didn't play Back Three in Super Rugby there and wanted them to be strong defensively.

Apart from Will Jordan, I don't see an obvious selection for the Back Three in Test 1. We are going to learn a lot about Scott Robertson by who he goes for.

@sparky

I thought Hansen is picking the backs?

@brodean Yeah, but Robertson will get the final say. Grant Fox is now record as saying on his panels , the Head Coach got the final vote. Whatever gets said in public, I've little doubt it's the same with this coaching group.

Scott Hansen will advise but it's Scott Robertson who the buck stops with.

@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@brodean Yeah, but Robertson will get the final say. Grant Fox is now record as saying on his panels , the Head Coach got the final vote. Whatever gets said in public, I've little doubt it's the same with this coaching group.

Scott Hansen will advise but it's Scott Robertson who the buck stops with.

I thought it was more along the lines of 'ok these are all the guys I want' ... 'yes that's fine but you have to pick that guy instead of this guy'

@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Jordan and Love pick themselves in my view and in spite of what @Bones posts about Jordan

With the right guys on the field, hopefully Jordan's glaring deficiencies can be covered.

@brodean I think it's more a case of the expert proving to the boss that a decision that the boss is going to be held to account for is the correct one.

Specialists will have their say and will be allowed to present their evidence over a series of months. But if they can't convince the boss then they will go with their gut instinct.

I’ll just say this. In regards to outside backs and getting the open spot with Telea leaving, it would be extremely disappointing to see guys like Narawa, Tangitau, Carter and even JRK miss out to someone like a Chay Fihaki… that would tell us all we need to know

Is Mark Tele’a unavailable for selection?

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Is Mark Tele’a unavailable for selection?

No, but he's going offshore. I'd only go for him in an injury emergency. Robertson and co picked Sam Cane last year so they might select Mark Tele'a.

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Is Mark Tele’a unavailable for selection?

Going overseas, so he'll be taking reps from a potential starter

@sparky

I think they will pick Tele'a if they believe that will help them secure a series win against France etc I guess we will find out if that's what they're thinking in 9 days.

Is France sending their speedster winger? Hope so. And that might be a factor in the AB winger decision.

@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Is France sending their speedster winger? Hope so. And that might be a factor in the AB winger decision.

Louis Bielle-Biarrey.

It all depends on how far Bordeaux go in the Top 14 playoffs.

So yeah, it's a bit complicated.

France are going to name a 28-man squad on Monday to play England next Saturday from teams not in the Top 14 playoffs. They will then add 14 more players from sides eliminated in the Top 14 playoffs to tour NZ, but it's unlikely that any players involved in the Top 14 final will be selected in the 42 man squad to tour NZ but they could come in if there are injuries after the First Test.

@nostrildamus This is the Top 14 playoff bracket.

Semi Final qualifiers today. Semi Finals next week and the Final the week after so they are a week behind Super Rugby.

@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

I think Leroy Carter is worth a shot on the Wing, but I've no idea if he's in the selectors thinking. He's raw but he's got potential.

Clarke's out of from.
Tangitau is injured.
Telea is going offshore.
Reece is in decline.
Jordan is a fullback these days.
Not sure JRK is Test quality.
Not sold on Fihaki.
Narawa's not really busy enough for me. But he might be worth another go.

Thin pickings on the wing.

I'm not interested in a coaching group that worries about players going offshore or in decline from previous highs - this isn't the abridged Rugby Championship before a RWC - form should be rewarded.

Based on the form of the semi-finals Narawa should be a lock and Fihaki is staking a claim. If Reece, despite not being at his best, and Telea - despite going OS - are amongst the best wingers, they should be included.

Turns out Fihaki has missed the most tackles this season of any back from the NZ teams squads who played in the semis

@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Is France sending their speedster winger? Hope so. And that might be a factor in the AB winger decision.

Louis Bielle-Biarrey.

It all depends on how far Bordeaux go in the Top 14 playoffs.

So yeah, it's a bit complicated.

France are going to name a 28-man squad on Monday to play England next Saturday from teams not in the Top 14 playoffs. They will then add 14 more players from sides eliminated in the Top 14 playoffs to tour NZ, but it's unlikely that any players involved in the Top 14 final will be selected in the 42 man squad to tour NZ but they could come in if there are injuries after the First Test.

Don't think LBB will be touring regardless. He's already played well over 2000 minutes which is the threshold previously mentioned for touring players - but that might only apply to players who feature in the final, it's a bit unclear.

@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Imagine it will be close to that.

Last outside back is one I am unsure on. Had heard JRK was in the frame, and noted he was playing for Taranaki, whilst the majority of the rest of the Highlanders are now on a break - wondered if the ABs coaches have asked him to keep himself fit. >

JRK will also be playing for the Barbarians against the Boks later this month. Jimi the Bruss too.

I'd be fascinated to see Leroy Carter in the squad. He has some X factor

@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

I'd be fascinated to see Leroy Carter in the squad. He has some X factor

You look at him and think he isnt fast and he isnt strong.

But he is both!

Has a bit of Cory Jane and Lukhanyo Am in him. Intangible.

@Jet said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

I'd be fascinated to see Leroy Carter in the squad. He has some X factor

You look at him and think he isnt fast and he isnt strong.

But he is both!

Has a bit of Cory Jane and Lukhanyo Am in him. Intangible.

Cory Jane definitely springs to mind.

@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Jordan and Love pick themselves in my view and in spite of what @Bones posts about Jordan

With the right guys on the field, hopefully Jordan's glaring deficiencies can be covered.

Reported the the authorities for misinformation and online abuse.

@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@Landers92

Back three is an interesting one in terms of selection strategy.

Laurie Mains and Steve Hansen went with the guys in form.

John Mitchell liked raw pace.

John Hart went with what he thought were the natural players and believed he could gel them.

Graham Henry and Ian Foster were willingly to stick guys who didn't play Back Three in Super Rugby there and wanted them to be strong defensively.

Apart from Will Jordan, I don't see an obvious selection for the Back Three in Test 1. We are going to learn a lot about Scott Robertson by who he goes for.

Tangitau's injury has been so unfortunate.

Youd have to think a position was his.

@Jet said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Lukhanyo Am

if stats I read are correct Carter is (slightly smaller) than either of them.

@Jet said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Jordan and Love pick themselves in my view and in spite of what @Bones posts about Jordan

With the right guys on the field, hopefully Jordan's glaring deficiencies can be covered.

Reported the the authorities for misinformation and online abuse.

Yeah, probably asking a bit much of them.

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Turns out Fihaki has missed the most tackles this season of any back from the NZ teams squads who played in the semis

But but but I was told he has really good defense…

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Turns out Fihaki has missed the most tackles this season of any back from the NZ teams squads who played in the semis

Yeah he is a poor tackler. Not to say that he can't improve in that area, but it is a concern for him at the next level.

I did find it funny when someone suggested he'd be a good 13.

@African-Monkey said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Turns out Fihaki has missed the most tackles this season of any back from the NZ teams squads who played in the semis

Yeah he is a poor tackler. Not to say that he can't improve in that area, but it is a concern for him at the next level.

I did find it funny when someone suggested he'd be a good 13.

I think his tackling is fine and quite strong if someone is running straight at him, but he struggles with his positioning to make the tackle. 12 might work, but not 13 and he gets caught out regularly on the wing. Has had quite a few nice touches this year, but again should be nowhere near the ABs despite Telea leaving, Clarke being average and Tangitau being injured.

@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@African-Monkey said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Turns out Fihaki has missed the most tackles this season of any back from the NZ teams squads who played in the semis

Yeah he is a poor tackler. Not to say that he can't improve in that area, but it is a concern for him at the next level.

I did find it funny when someone suggested he'd be a good 13.

I think his tackling is fine and quite strong if someone is running straight at him, but he struggles with his positioning to make the tackle. 12 might work, but not 13 and he gets caught out regularly on the wing. Has had quite a few nice touches this year, but again should be nowhere near the ABs despite Telea leaving, Clarke being average and Tangitau being injured.

That description doesn't sound like a guy who is AB material

I’ve had some really good oil that all of Williams, Taylor, Newell, Shelfoon, Barrett, Blackadder, Christie, Lio-Willie, Hotham, Reihana, Reece, Havili, Ennor, Fihaki and Jordan will be playing in the first test against France.

Roberston’s also apparently thinking of not having a bench. Doesn’t need it apparently. Stuff the bomb squad, new tactic is we just bore our opposition to death.

@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

I’ve had some really good oil that all of Williams, Taylor, Newell, Shelfoon, Barrett, Blackadder, Christie, Lio-Willie, Hotham, Reihana, Reece, Havili, Ennor, Fihaki and Jordan will be playing in the first test against France.

Roberston’s also apparently thinking of not having a bench. Doesn’t need it apparently. Stuff the bomb squad, new tactic is we just bore our opposition to death.

It’s on the fern it must be true.

Congrats to the new ABs, gutted for Grace though. Is he at least on the bench ?

I'm sure the journalists will plump for Leroy, "Get Carter" is a headline that just writes itself.
Personally, the fact that he was also a halfback seems a point of difference to me; we don't seem to get many of those.

They will go with Bower but I would prefer Norris. He has a higher ceiling imo. Get him in the environment and work on his scrummaging, which tbf has improved a lot already this year. He's probably the best ball carrying prop in NZ.

@frugby Good squad. The only changes I'd make would be to:

• replace Bower with Numia or Norris. We're likely going to start with Williams, and if he's injured de Groot. I like Numia for his potential impact off the bench. Ryan has shown that he values players that can get over the gainline. Numia is a big improvement on Bower in that area
• Jacobsen has to be in ahead of Blackadder. They seem very similar to me as potential starting 6s or loose forward bench cover, but Jacobsen is much more durable.
• Tavatavanawi ahead of Havili. I know they won't, but I wish. He could provide a real point of difference coming off the bench in the last 20 mins.
• Narawa in for JRK. JRK's defence seems quite poor(?) and Narawa has been great.

I really hope Aumua is fit and ready to be the third option at hooker. His form at the end of last year was great.

Sevu Reece has looked very good this season. I was also impressed with his work under the high ball against the Blues, which he seems to have improved(??). I think him and Clarke as starting wings will be fine. Hell, maybe even him and Reiko?

@akan004 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

They will go with Bower but I would prefer Norris.

I am expecting Bower to be chosen as well, but it isn't a selection for the future as he'll be 35 in 2027. Norris will at least get an opportunity for the Māori.

@Bovidae Picking Bower is nothing but a comfort selection which I wish Razor would stay away from. Time to find the next gen that will be in the black jersey for more than the next year or 2. Now is the time to do it.

Last year in the media Jason Ryan claimed he had final say over all forward selections. Ryan really likes older players. He claimed blindsides start hitting their peak at 30 when talking about Frizell. So I think we may see Bower.

The South African team that won the last RWC was a bit of an anomaly in terms of age. They got around some of that age issue with innovative use of bench.

Prior to the 2023 RWC these were the key stats for RWC winning teams:

• Starting side has an average of 50 caps per player
• Starting side has an average of 5.5 years of test rugby
• 23 has at least 850 caps total
• At least 30% of the matchday squad in the 27-29 'prime years' range

So I'm not sold on Ryan's idea of age. Especially when we refuse to make proper use of the bench.

As Razor alluded to hopefully they really are open to using the bench better. I think the Crusaders have made good use of their bench this year and its been a key reason why they've improved.

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

He claimed blindsides start hitting their peak at 30 when talking about Frizell. So I think we may see Bower.

Weird example considering Bower isn’t a blindside…

But yes, I agree with you in that he will be selected. Razor likes comfort, he will be there.

@Landers92 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@Bovidae Picking Bower is nothing but a comfort selection which I wish Razor would stay away from. Time to find the next gen that will be in the black jersey for more than the next year or 2. Now is the time to do it.

He says he wants to be braver. Time to show it

A player like Bower might be third choice but with Williams now first choice, they have good cover in DeGroot and should invest in a less experienced player in the squad.

If there is an injury, Bower could come right in to start or go on the bench.

Sadly, the ABs need to operate a bit like a club team as we don't run an AB 15 for the full representative season, and they aren't a capture team, so we should be sending a message to players like Norris to stick around.