2025 All Blacks v France series

@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Is France sending their speedster winger? Hope so. And that might be a factor in the AB winger decision.

Louis Bielle-Biarrey.

It all depends on how far Bordeaux go in the Top 14 playoffs.

So yeah, it's a bit complicated.

France are going to name a 28-man squad on Monday to play England next Saturday from teams not in the Top 14 playoffs. They will then add 14 more players from sides eliminated in the Top 14 playoffs to tour NZ, but it's unlikely that any players involved in the Top 14 final will be selected in the 42 man squad to tour NZ but they could come in if there are injuries after the First Test.

Don't think LBB will be touring regardless. He's already played well over 2000 minutes which is the threshold previously mentioned for touring players - but that might only apply to players who feature in the final, it's a bit unclear.

@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Imagine it will be close to that.

Last outside back is one I am unsure on. Had heard JRK was in the frame, and noted he was playing for Taranaki, whilst the majority of the rest of the Highlanders are now on a break - wondered if the ABs coaches have asked him to keep himself fit. >

JRK will also be playing for the Barbarians against the Boks later this month. Jimi the Bruss too.

I'd be fascinated to see Leroy Carter in the squad. He has some X factor

@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

I'd be fascinated to see Leroy Carter in the squad. He has some X factor

You look at him and think he isnt fast and he isnt strong.

But he is both!

Has a bit of Cory Jane and Lukhanyo Am in him. Intangible.

@Jet said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

I'd be fascinated to see Leroy Carter in the squad. He has some X factor

You look at him and think he isnt fast and he isnt strong.

But he is both!

Has a bit of Cory Jane and Lukhanyo Am in him. Intangible.

Cory Jane definitely springs to mind.

@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Jordan and Love pick themselves in my view and in spite of what @Bones posts about Jordan

With the right guys on the field, hopefully Jordan's glaring deficiencies can be covered.

Reported the the authorities for misinformation and online abuse.

@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@Landers92

Back three is an interesting one in terms of selection strategy.

Laurie Mains and Steve Hansen went with the guys in form.

John Mitchell liked raw pace.

John Hart went with what he thought were the natural players and believed he could gel them.

Graham Henry and Ian Foster were willingly to stick guys who didn't play Back Three in Super Rugby there and wanted them to be strong defensively.

Apart from Will Jordan, I don't see an obvious selection for the Back Three in Test 1. We are going to learn a lot about Scott Robertson by who he goes for.

Tangitau's injury has been so unfortunate.

Youd have to think a position was his.

@Jet said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Lukhanyo Am

if stats I read are correct Carter is (slightly smaller) than either of them.

@Jet said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Jordan and Love pick themselves in my view and in spite of what @Bones posts about Jordan

With the right guys on the field, hopefully Jordan's glaring deficiencies can be covered.

Reported the the authorities for misinformation and online abuse.

Yeah, probably asking a bit much of them.

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Turns out Fihaki has missed the most tackles this season of any back from the NZ teams squads who played in the semis

But but but I was told he has really good defense…

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Turns out Fihaki has missed the most tackles this season of any back from the NZ teams squads who played in the semis

Yeah he is a poor tackler. Not to say that he can't improve in that area, but it is a concern for him at the next level.

I did find it funny when someone suggested he'd be a good 13.

@African-Monkey said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Turns out Fihaki has missed the most tackles this season of any back from the NZ teams squads who played in the semis

Yeah he is a poor tackler. Not to say that he can't improve in that area, but it is a concern for him at the next level.

I did find it funny when someone suggested he'd be a good 13.

I think his tackling is fine and quite strong if someone is running straight at him, but he struggles with his positioning to make the tackle. 12 might work, but not 13 and he gets caught out regularly on the wing. Has had quite a few nice touches this year, but again should be nowhere near the ABs despite Telea leaving, Clarke being average and Tangitau being injured.

@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@African-Monkey said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Turns out Fihaki has missed the most tackles this season of any back from the NZ teams squads who played in the semis

Yeah he is a poor tackler. Not to say that he can't improve in that area, but it is a concern for him at the next level.

I did find it funny when someone suggested he'd be a good 13.

I think his tackling is fine and quite strong if someone is running straight at him, but he struggles with his positioning to make the tackle. 12 might work, but not 13 and he gets caught out regularly on the wing. Has had quite a few nice touches this year, but again should be nowhere near the ABs despite Telea leaving, Clarke being average and Tangitau being injured.

That description doesn't sound like a guy who is AB material

I’ve had some really good oil that all of Williams, Taylor, Newell, Shelfoon, Barrett, Blackadder, Christie, Lio-Willie, Hotham, Reihana, Reece, Havili, Ennor, Fihaki and Jordan will be playing in the first test against France.

Roberston’s also apparently thinking of not having a bench. Doesn’t need it apparently. Stuff the bomb squad, new tactic is we just bore our opposition to death.

@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

I’ve had some really good oil that all of Williams, Taylor, Newell, Shelfoon, Barrett, Blackadder, Christie, Lio-Willie, Hotham, Reihana, Reece, Havili, Ennor, Fihaki and Jordan will be playing in the first test against France.

Roberston’s also apparently thinking of not having a bench. Doesn’t need it apparently. Stuff the bomb squad, new tactic is we just bore our opposition to death.

It’s on the fern it must be true.

Congrats to the new ABs, gutted for Grace though. Is he at least on the bench ?

I'm sure the journalists will plump for Leroy, "Get Carter" is a headline that just writes itself.
Personally, the fact that he was also a halfback seems a point of difference to me; we don't seem to get many of those.

They will go with Bower but I would prefer Norris. He has a higher ceiling imo. Get him in the environment and work on his scrummaging, which tbf has improved a lot already this year. He's probably the best ball carrying prop in NZ.

@frugby Good squad. The only changes I'd make would be to:

• replace Bower with Numia or Norris. We're likely going to start with Williams, and if he's injured de Groot. I like Numia for his potential impact off the bench. Ryan has shown that he values players that can get over the gainline. Numia is a big improvement on Bower in that area
• Jacobsen has to be in ahead of Blackadder. They seem very similar to me as potential starting 6s or loose forward bench cover, but Jacobsen is much more durable.
• Tavatavanawi ahead of Havili. I know they won't, but I wish. He could provide a real point of difference coming off the bench in the last 20 mins.
• Narawa in for JRK. JRK's defence seems quite poor(?) and Narawa has been great.

I really hope Aumua is fit and ready to be the third option at hooker. His form at the end of last year was great.

Sevu Reece has looked very good this season. I was also impressed with his work under the high ball against the Blues, which he seems to have improved(??). I think him and Clarke as starting wings will be fine. Hell, maybe even him and Reiko?

@akan004 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

They will go with Bower but I would prefer Norris.

I am expecting Bower to be chosen as well, but it isn't a selection for the future as he'll be 35 in 2027. Norris will at least get an opportunity for the Māori.

@Bovidae Picking Bower is nothing but a comfort selection which I wish Razor would stay away from. Time to find the next gen that will be in the black jersey for more than the next year or 2. Now is the time to do it.

Last year in the media Jason Ryan claimed he had final say over all forward selections. Ryan really likes older players. He claimed blindsides start hitting their peak at 30 when talking about Frizell. So I think we may see Bower.

The South African team that won the last RWC was a bit of an anomaly in terms of age. They got around some of that age issue with innovative use of bench.

Prior to the 2023 RWC these were the key stats for RWC winning teams:

• Starting side has an average of 50 caps per player
• Starting side has an average of 5.5 years of test rugby
• 23 has at least 850 caps total
• At least 30% of the matchday squad in the 27-29 'prime years' range

So I'm not sold on Ryan's idea of age. Especially when we refuse to make proper use of the bench.

As Razor alluded to hopefully they really are open to using the bench better. I think the Crusaders have made good use of their bench this year and its been a key reason why they've improved.

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

He claimed blindsides start hitting their peak at 30 when talking about Frizell. So I think we may see Bower.

Weird example considering Bower isn’t a blindside…

But yes, I agree with you in that he will be selected. Razor likes comfort, he will be there.

@Landers92 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@Bovidae Picking Bower is nothing but a comfort selection which I wish Razor would stay away from. Time to find the next gen that will be in the black jersey for more than the next year or 2. Now is the time to do it.

He says he wants to be braver. Time to show it

A player like Bower might be third choice but with Williams now first choice, they have good cover in DeGroot and should invest in a less experienced player in the squad.

If there is an injury, Bower could come right in to start or go on the bench.

Sadly, the ABs need to operate a bit like a club team as we don't run an AB 15 for the full representative season, and they aren't a capture team, so we should be sending a message to players like Norris to stick around.

@Landers92

I would say his idea of prime age for prop will be even older than blindside. The point is he likes old players even though there is little to substantiate that idea that players over 30 are better.

Owen Franks, Sam Whitelock, and Brodie Retallick were all AB legends and I'm not convinced they were at their peak at 30+. In terms of AB years their best years were from 2011 to 2015.

@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@akan004 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

They will go with Bower but I would prefer Norris.

I am expecting Bower to be chosen as well, but it isn't a selection for the future as he'll be 35 in 2027. Norris will at least get an opportunity for the Māori.

I'm expecting them to go the other way and pick Norris.

If Ofa was available, they'd pick him. So take the opportunity while he's not there to give a younger guy a run. George is very much a known quantity - won't let you down but unlikely to be a point of difference either. It's a bit tough on guy's like GB, but omelettes and broken eggs...

@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@akan004 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

They will go with Bower but I would prefer Norris.

I am expecting Bower to be chosen as well, but it isn't a selection for the future as he'll be 35 in 2027. Norris will at least get an opportunity for the Māori.

I'm expecting them to go the other way and pick Norris.

If Ofa was available, they'd pick him. So take the opportunity while he's not there to give a younger guy a run. George is very much a known quantity - won't let you down but unlikely to be a point of difference either. It's a bit tough on guy's like GB, but omelettes and broken eggs...

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Be brave Razor. Be brave

@Chris-B

That would be great if it works out that way

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@Landers92

I would say his idea of prime age for prop will be even older than blindside. The point is he likes old players even though there is little to substantiate that idea that players over 30 are better.

Owen Franks, Sam Whitelock, and Brodie Retallick were all AB legends and I'm not convinced they were at their peak at 30+. In terms of AB years their best years were from 2011 to 2015.

Franks maybe but not Whitelock. He was at his best from 2014-2019 and still performing at a high level albeit in a different role in 22 and 23.

It’s all about balancing experience and youth and I agree with others that if both Williams and EdG are fit they go with a young buck (I’m in the Numia camp ahead of Norris). But if one of those two frontliners aren’t available you have an experienced prop in the squad (doesn’t have to make the 23 necessarily) like Bower in there. Just as important as the game itself is having the right guys in the training camp to hone their craft against. That’s not being conservative or focussed on “security” but about balance and using assets available to you.

Clermont and Castres were knocked out of the Top 14 yesterday. So their players and those from La Rochelle, Pau, Montpellier, Racing Paris, Lyon, Stade Française, Perpignan and Vannes will be available for a 28 man squad to play an England XV next week and then tour NZ.

A further 14 players from the teams that lose the Semi Finals between Toulouse and Bayonne and between Bordeaux Begles and Toulon will be added before the squad reaches NZ.

Have there been any updates on Aumua?

@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

A player like Bower might be third choice but with Williams now first choice, they have good cover in DeGroot and should invest in a less experienced player in the squad.

If there is an injury, Bower could come right in to start or go on the bench.

Sadly, the ABs also need to operate a bit like a club team as we don't run an AB 15 for the full representative season, and they aren't a capture team, so we should be sending a message to players like Norris to stick around.

I agree. Bower would be underwhelming. Get Norris in there

Can Norris play both sides to a good level?

@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Can Norris play both sides to a good level?

Only a LH.

@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Can Norris play both sides to a good level?

Why does he need to play both sides well if you have two props on the bench?

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Can Norris play both sides to a good level?

Why does he need to play both sides well if you have two props on the bench?

Just curious.

More details on that French Squad:

Forwards:

Props:
Demba Bamba, Racing, 27, 28 caps
Baptiste Erdocio, Montpellier, 25, Uncapped
Paul Mallez, Provence in Division 2, 24, Uncapped
Régis Montagne, ASM Clermont, 24, Uncapped
Rabah Slimani, Leinster, 35, 57 Caps

Hooker:
Gaëtan Barlot, Castres, 28, 9 caps
Guillaume Marchand, Lyon, 27, Uncapped

Locks:
Hugo Auradou, Pau, 21, 6 Caps.
Tyler Duguid, Montpellier, 24. Uncapped. Canadian.
Mickaël Guillard, Lyon, 24, 10 Caps.
Romain Taofifenua, Racing, 34, 54 caps (2:03!)
Théo William, Lyon, 24, Uncapped

Back Row:
Alexandre Fisher, ASM Clermont, 27, Uncapped
Lilian Trixerot, ASM Clermont, 23, 1 Cap
Jaco Von Tronder, Perpignan, 27, Uncapped, Saffa.
Cameron Woki, Racing, 26, 30 Caps, Plays Lock too.

Lots of tall timber there. A set of forwards assembled to drive mauls.

And the Backs:

Half Back:
Thibault Daubagna, Pau, 31, Uncapped
Baptiste Jauneau, Clermont, 21, 1 Cap
Nolann Le Garret, Racing, 23, 10 Caps

First Five:
Léo Barré, Stade Française, 22, 7 Caps
Léo Berdeau, Lyon, 27, Uncapped
Antonie Hastoy, La Rochelle, 28, 7 Caps

Midfield:
Aliverti Duguivalu, Perpignan, 27, Uncapped, Fijian
Gaël Fickou, Racing, 31, 94 Caps
Emilien Gaillleton, Pau, 21, 7 Caps, English
Théo Millet, Lyon, 27, Uncapped

Wing:
Maël Moustin, Montpellier, 22, Uncapped

Full Back
Théo Attissogbe, Pau, 20, 5 Caps.

I've seen this suggested as the likely French XV to play England.

Erdocio-Barlot-Demba
William-Guillard
Von Tronder- Fischer-Woki
La Garret-Berdeu
Millet - Gallieton
Moustin-Barré- Attissogbe