Ashes 2025/6

Agree with the angles here that England have blown some winnable scenarios. What I also didn’t understand was why England didn’t try to drag them into deep water from the start.

There is no way Duckett and Pope can play next week. They’re toast. Crawley did enough to earn a reprieve.

Also think Brook needs a talking to at minimum and potentially dropping too. Call me crazy but this kid can be an all timer with some adjustments.

@game_film

Duckett has credit in the bank, plus of course we don't have a back up opener. Planning huh? Pope I agree must have the doors of the Last Chance Saloon slapping him on the arse on the way out. The Brook thing is probably a bit more nuanced. It is difficult to discipline someone for playing in an overtly attacking manner when that has been the oft spouted preferred way. Some of the quotes from the England team over the last year or two have been cringeworthy and then to castigate a batsman for playing in the way suggested is a bit unfair just because it didn't come off.

I really like the attacking intent England have been playing with over the last few years, it certainly beats the negative methodology of previous regimes. However the going down all guns blazing all the time does need reigning in. There must be some middle ground.

@Catogrande said in Ashes 2025/6:

@game_film

Duckett has credit in the bank, plus of course we don't have a back up opener. Planning huh? Pope I agree must have the doors of the Last Chance Saloon slapping him on the arse on the way out. The Brook thing is probably a bit more nuanced. It is difficult to discipline someone for playing in an overtly attacking manner when that has been the oft spouted preferred way. Some of the quotes from the England team over the last year or two have been cringeworthy and then to castigate a batsman for playing in the way suggested is a bit unfair just because it didn't come off.

I really like the attacking intent England have been playing with over the last few years, it certainly beats the negative methodology of previous regimes. However the going down all guns blazing all the time does need reigning in. There must be some middle ground.

We all know the prep has been suicidal.

3 test’s in a month before xmas.

England should have has 3-4 players play in oz cricket every year leading up to this. And if Oz dont organise enough practice mstches, then they should have brought the Lions out and played their own warm up matches themselves.

No point playing yourself into form for the boxing day test when you have lost the series

It looks like Bazball v.1 has run its course. It has been fantastic for England and if rain stayed away in Manchester for an hour they would have gone to Australia to defend the ashes.

I think England underestimated OZ hate for bazball and the need to humiliate England. Especially after the flashpoints of the last series such as the Carey incident.

@DaGrubster

Can't argue with any of that.

It must be tough being an England fan. This was all completely avoidable. I don't even think we are really that good.

Yep our bowling has been accurate but half the wickets have been gifted to us. And they have bowled too short all tour and not played a genuine spinner. And dropping catches! A couple that were just regulation.

There's enough talent there, they just had to not play like complete morons and the series would still be alive.

@barbarian

Three terrible decisions destroyed England's chances in these Ashes.

1. The ECB pulling their players from long-form cricket in mid July and having them play The Hundred, T20 and some 50 overs since then. Guys like Ben Duckett and Harry Brook have forgotten how to bat mid length to long innings.

2. Playing no meaningful warm up games in Australia. Who knew playing conditions in Australia were different?

3. Sticking with Bazball come what may. It makes sense to play aggressive cricket when you are the better side, but not when your back is against the wall and ruthless winners are coming at you. Some of England's shot selection in these three Tests has been appalling.

Add dropping some absolute stinkers in the field and you have an Ashes drubbing

When I think about England's preparation, the lack of work (proudly at times) and the lack of adaptation to conditions, it reminds me of a story about Matt Hayden preparing to go to India.

He hadn't had success in India, so he requested the groundsman in Brisbane prepare him a dusty pitch to mirror Indian conditions. He went out on the hottest days and had spinners bowling at him in a real match simulation and he'd bat all day with a break for lunch and a break for tea. Averaged over 100 for the series.

I don't know how you can be Brendan McCullum and look at that and think 'nah'. Because really that's exactly what his players should be doing if they actually want to take this seriously. But that's the truth of Bazball - freeing the arms and playing fast is more fun and it's less work. Who cares if you win or lose?

The chat coming out of the England camp has been fucking stupid when you compare it to what has been produced on the field.

They're 0-3 down in the series, and they've barely won a session. Lots of tough talk, some weird revisionism as well. Regardless of what happens in Melbourne and Sydney this has been really bad.

Every time England looked to be getting themselves in to a position to apply real pressure to Australia invariably someone would play a stupid shot and get themselves out. I've hit 3 fours in an over? lets try and moon a 4th over cow. The defense of Brooke's reverse sweep has been hilarious, and has early selfish McCullum written all over it "oh that's how he plays". Getting clean bowled trying to reverse sweep a spinner doing absolutely nothing until that point? Hilarious.

The bowling plans were either so flawed they were laughable, or the bowlers didn't stick to the plan. Either way serving up short shit to get carted in every innings was pretty average.

They are just seemingly unwilling to do the tedious boring shit that makes up a lot of successful test cricket. Bat time. Hit the top of off over after aver. A completely ADHD cricket team.

When McCullum is inevitably fired by England I really really hope NZC doesn’t even think of giving him a call.
He was great for nzc, he was one of the big reasons why the WC was special in 2015 but he’ would be completely wrong as a coach for us.

My concern is that McCullum and co will end up back here causing yet more franchise cricket fun and games, while chasing the next big thing.

Would be nice to be wrong and it's "just" coaching

Joe Root seems to be escaping criticism, but from someone who has been described as the best England bat of all time, has he been good enough? Good hundred at the Gabba, but his other scores have been 0, 8, 15, 19 and 39. All of which were high pressure digs when his team needed a score.

If England was to win these Ashes he needed to stamp his GOAT credentials all over the series, and while he's got the monkey off the back with the century he's been a non-factor outside of that. With inexperienced players around him (in Aus conditions), they really needed him to hang around and eke out a few more scores.

Booze, Beach, Beaten - how England lost the Ashes:

Forgot birdies in the title

@barbarian said in Ashes 2025/6:

Joe Root seems to be escaping criticism, but from someone who has been described as the best England bat of all time, has he been good enough? Good hundred at the Gabba, but his other scores have been 0, 8, 15, 19 and 39. All of which were high pressure digs when his team needed a score.

If England was to win these Ashes he needed to stamp his GOAT credentials all over the series, and while he's got the monkey off the back with the century he's been a non-factor outside of that. With inexperienced players around him (in Aus conditions), they really needed him to hang around and eke out a few more scores.

Joe Root is in the discussion for best ever, not out and out. Hammond, Hobbs and Hutton are all worthy of the title and that’s just guys whose name starts with H.

@MiketheSnow said in Ashes 2025/6:

Forgot birdies in the title

Females or golf variety? Or both?

So disrespectful for the England cricket team to treat an Ashes tour like a stag holiday. What a dismal bunch of flops!

Ben Duckett has been working hard on his shot selection on this tour of Australia.

Vodka, rum, tequila - he's ordered them all.

@sparky said in Ashes 2025/6:

Ben Duckett has been working hard on his shot selection on this tour of Australia.

Vodka, rum, tequila - he's ordered them all.

They do not appear to be that serious about this Ashes tour, it's just a big holiday down under

@canefan Shades of the England Rugby team at the 2011 World Cup, but without the dwarf throwing.

The only good news for Ben Duckett is that it's not footage of him pissed as a newt at the cease, which is how he batted on a couple of occasions in those first three tests.

I've just noticed who shared this vid.

Perhaps a bit annoyed at how his own career ended ?

The thing about Noosa is it seemed almost performative. Take their drinking for example - they seemed to spend all their time at Rococo bar, which is the one that everyone walks past to get to the better spots. You couldn't pick a more exposed spot if you tried. At least golf courses are private, leafy sort of places.

Go to the bar at the resort, or one a bit further down Hastings Street with less foot traffic.

I find this all really strange - as far as I can tell there's no misconduct here. It all just feels like pearl clutching (would anyone care if they were winning?)

I wish we had more in depth analysis of the actual individual performances (although in fairness, I'm not closely following this specific tour, so maybe there is elsewhere and it just doesn't generate clicks so I don't see it... Which is probably also part of the problem, but I'm inferring the quality of coverage from the cricket I follow more closely).

It seems wrong that the highest quality analysis now are the commentators doing it live. Obviously they're good thinkers and I expect them to provide good analysis as the game goes on (another bugbear of mine with some comms), but after the match when you've had time to go through everything, I'd expect it to be even more in depth rather than just 'player X averaged 34.43 a middling tour' followed by a description of the most notable innings, which is often about the most in depth you see these days.

all this shit does is reinforce that the only thing that matters is winning.

If the poms had held a couple of catches and played one or two more discreet shots, they would be lauded for escaping the pressure cooker of an Australian summer.

On the other hand, in October the narrative around the Australian coaches and selectors was one of conservatism so extreme it was actively holding back the team. The top order was in complete disarray, and there was no depth to Australian cricket. Now Andrew MacDonald and co are winners because they are so good at backing the playing group.

Win, and everything else fades away. lose and everything you do is wrong.

Joffra Archer has been ruled out of the rest of the tour with a side strain.

England XI for fourth Ashes Test: Zak Crawley, Ben "Uber to the nets" Duckett, Jacob "YMCA" Bethell, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes (capt), Jamie Smith, Will Jacks, Gus Atkinson, Brydon Carse, Josh Tongue.

@sparky said in Ashes 2025/6:

Joffra Archer has been ruled out of the rest of the tour with a side strain.

I am surprised he lasted this long.

@sparky said in Ashes 2025/6:

Joffra Archer has been ruled out of the rest of the tour with a side strain.

England XI for fourth Ashes Test: Zak Crawley, Ben "Uber to the nets" Duckett, Jacob "YMCA" Bethell, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes (capt), Jamie Smith, Will Jacks, Gus Atkinson, Brydon Carse, Josh Tongue.

Creepy ?

@Crazy-Horse said in Ashes 2025/6:

@sparky said in Ashes 2025/6:

Joffra Archer has been ruled out of the rest of the tour with a side strain.

I am surprised he lasted this long.

He was superb in the last test, basically carried them. But then in the 2nd innings Aus did to him what England should have done to Starc in the first test and blunted him for 20 runs from 13 overs with just the wicket of Boland. Talentwise this English side could have won this Ashes, or at least been SO much more competitive, but the difference between the sides has been IQ.

It's a real shame Archer has had such bad injury problems though, he really could have been an all time great for England.

@No-Quarter

The Aussies are fighters. It's the DNA of their Cricket. If you're not a fighter you can fuck off out of their system. The whole focus of the Australian Cricket system is about fighting and ultimately winning.

By contrast, the ECB is an organisation about chasing easy money. The England players are developed to flog maize and potato snacks. In the pressure cooker of an Australia tour they get exposed again and again and again.

@Catogrande said in Ashes 2025/6:

@NTA We've got the pace attack to do the job IF both Wood and Archer stay fit. After those two I struggle to see how we will take 20 wickets unless Bashir has one of his moments, but even then he won't run through your line up cheaply.

I'll just leave this here.

@sparky said in Ashes 2025/6:

Joffra Archer has been ruled out of the rest of the tour with a side strain.

England XI for fourth Ashes Test: Zak Crawley, Ben "Uber to the nets" Duckett, Jacob "YMCA" Bethell, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes (capt), Jamie Smith, Will Jacks, Gus Atkinson, Brydon Carse, Josh Tongue.

As seen on Reddit, problem for England losing Archer isn’t just they lost a bowler but also their 2nd best batsman….

Australia
1 Jake Weatherald, 2 Travis Head, 3 Marnus Labuschagne, 4 Steven Smith (capt), 5 Usman Khawaja, 6 Alex Carey (wk), 7 Cameron Green, 8 Michael Neser, 9 Mitchell Starc, 10 Jhye Richardson, 11 Scott Boland

England
1 Zak Crawley, 2 Ben Duckett, 3 Jacob Bethell, 4 Joe Root, 5 Harry Brook, 6 Ben Stokes (capt), 7 Jamie Smith (wk), 8 Will Jacks, 9 Gus Atkinson, 10 Brydon Carse, 11 Josh Tongue

England choose to bowl

Apparently there’s a lot more grass left on the pitch than normal. Even Smith said if they had won the toss they would have bowled too
Can’t help feel England are toothless without Archer

Beefy and Merv have definitely eaten well since they've retired by the looks of things.

Looks freezing in Melbourne, England should feel at home at least.

Always cool seeing a massive crowd at the Boxing Day test. Puts anything NZ can do to shame.

BIg call putting Bethel in for England but they needed to change that top three.

Crawley and Duckett probably lucky there aren't a host of alternatives.