Ashes 2025/6

@Virgil

Yeah the poms have f'd up this series good and proper.
Poms have the raw material to get it done, but the Aussies have played it much smarter.

Bazball does have a place. Just gotta pick the right time.
Aussies finished the 1st test off with bazball.

Financial disaster; ACB guna make sure that the wickets are ultra flat for at least the next generation!
Didn't mind the shoot out myself; very entertaining.

Test cricket got way better when ODI tactics and strategies came into it; dunno about the T20 version of test cricket tho.

I’ve reached the point in life where I look at this series and all I see is lost revenue

Being reported as a $10 mill financial loss to Cricket Australia.

One very costly mower height setting.

Black Caps can look forward to a road in Melbourne next Boxing Day

You can kind of see what the groundsman was going for when you look at how we've been preparing our pitches lately (the basin and hagley especially), where the pitch is almost as green as the outfield at the toss and often by tea a lot of the life is gone. I can see why they went for that option. Will be very interesting to see what way they go next year.

Crowe rules “unsatisfactory” personally would have been great opportunity to say worst Australian action at MCG since 1981

@bayimports said in Ashes 2025/6:

Crowe rules “unsatisfactory” personally would have been great opportunity to say worst Australian action at MCG since 1981

Could argue since 1987. Kinda worse with the Dyer The Liar action on top of the Morrison LB on McDermott ...

Noting that said Jeff Crowe was the captain.

@booboo said in Ashes 2025/6:

@bayimports said in Ashes 2025/6:

Crowe rules “unsatisfactory” personally would have been great opportunity to say worst Australian action at MCG since 1981

Could argue since 1987. Kinda worse with the Dyer The Liar action on top of the Morrison LB on McDermott ...

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Noting that said Jeff Crowe was the captain.

Nice, Jeff clearly missed a trick to have some fun with a serious matter

Khawaja retiring at the end of the SCG test.

Hard to know, he might have genuinely continued on, but this might also have been his last chance to fully go out on his terms.

So far 16 test centuries.

@Donsteppa said in Ashes 2025/6:

Khawaja retiring at the end of the SCG test.

Hard to know, he might have genuinely continued on, but this might also have been his last chance to fully go out on his terms.

So far 16 test centuries.

Excellent record. Got better with age.

He'll be hoping to sneak past Mike Hussey into that 14th spot.

Crumbs Australia have had some amazing batsmen when you look through the list......Mark Waugh has the lowest average ( just under 42 ) of the top 24. That's very impressive in a way no other country can match.

Khawaja also makes interesting points about copping it from the media for his Golfing last month.......I could be wrong but I'm sure people would have given him grief no matter what race/religion he was. Comes across very "woe is me"

Averaged 48 as an opener, nearly identical to Langer and only behind Hayden who averaged 50 (Australia top openers)

@Virgil said in Ashes 2025/6:

Averaged 48 as an opener, nearly identical to Langer and only behind Hayden who averaged 50 (Australia top openers)

It pays not to do a direct comparison to our guys.

Mike Hussey ( I noticed him cos he is one above Khawaja ) had an outstanding career, helped by a magnificent start if I recall.

Michael Clarke ? a bit disappointing in that he let the average dip to 49.....

Fern favourite Dave Warner fifth on the list averaging 44 as an opener.

Matty Hayden averaging an unbelievable 50 as an opener, his little partner in crime Justin Langer only averaging 45.

Steve Waugh well and truly the best in his family. Same with Greg Chappell, both over 50, their stink brothers only managing early 40s.......

But back to the present, Khawaja retiring and uncertainly over Steve Smith ( 37 in June ) is music to Cam Greens ears I'm sure.

For openers, averaging over 40 is internationally good, and over 45 is high quality. Averaging over 50 is all time great stats, so getting close to that is telling of how good he actually was.

@Godder said in Ashes 2025/6:

For openers, averaging over 40 is internationally good, and over 45 is high quality. Averaging over 50 is all time great stats, so getting close to that is telling of how good he actually was.

Hayden is underrated compared to legends like Ponting, Warne, McGrath etc. Not to mention in any other era Langer would be the outstanding opener of his generation.

I’d go for 40 as high quality personally. ( also allowing for different eras, Greenidge and Haynes averaged 44 and 42 respectively and they're revered as the absolute best of their era ) Remember their chances for not outs are extremely low and they’re facing the oppositions best bowlers.

Seems ironic to say it bearing in mind what we've witnessed lately but I reckon no other country has produced as many outstanding openers as England. Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, Edrich, Boycott, Gooch, Vaughan ( when he opened ), Trescothick, Strauss, Cook…..Atherton was a better player than his stats indicate….Stewart did a job when required.

@MN5 said in Ashes 2025/6:

Khawaja also makes interesting points about copping it from the media for his Golfing last month.......I could be wrong but I'm sure people would have given him grief no matter what race/religion he was. Comes across very "woe is me"

Agreed. Similar to the English team in Noosa, anyone can generally do what they want so long as they stay injury free and win. Lose or get crocked, and then the microscope is on...

@Donsteppa said in Ashes 2025/6:

@MN5 said in Ashes 2025/6:

Khawaja also makes interesting points about copping it from the media for his Golfing last month.......I could be wrong but I'm sure people would have given him grief no matter what race/religion he was. Comes across very "woe is me"

Agreed. Similar to the English team in Noosa, anyone can generally do what the want so long as they stay injury free and win. Lose or get crocked, and then the microscope is on...

Khawaja predictably being ripped apart on social media for his comments.

I've got no doubt he experienced prejudice growing up but there is a time and place for gripes and I don't think this is it.

@MN5 said in Ashes 2025/6:

I've got no doubt he experienced prejudice growing up but there is a time and place for gripes and I don't think this is it.

100%

If you're out because of back spasms didn't be surprised if people look at your preparation. That's not racism. Racism will be through his career, but not convinced this is the place.

@MN5 said in Ashes 2025/6:

predictably

You spelled deservedly wrong.

very interesting article.

@MN5 an interesting article but only really shows one side of the story. Seam movement was definitely the theme for the series and the pitches assisted with that, but the batsmen played a part in their own demise even against the really good deliveries. Being able to play with soft hands so edges don't carry as often, and not chase the ball or play inside it when it moves is a lost art today. Kane is one of the few remaining players that is really good at it but he is aging, gone are the likes of Amla, Dravid etc who were experts at surviving a seaming ball. The young talent coming through today is mostly players that can hit the ball around in the shorter forms, and are too talented to overlook for tests but have not developed the skillset to survive tougher conditions.

Often these days tests that have batting friendly pitches end up in high scoring games with results as the run rate batsmen set today is so high. The flip side is we get 2 day tests and the groundsmen get roasted if the ball is doing a bit.

(Edit - thanks for sharing as it was good read)

@No-Quarter said in Ashes 2025/6:

@MN5 an interesting article but only really shows one side of the story. Seam movement was definitely the theme for the series and the pitches assisted with that, but the batsmen played a part in their own demise even against the really good deliveries. Being able to play with soft hands so edges don't carry as often, and not chase the ball or play inside it when it moves is a lost art today. Kane is one of the few remaining players that is really good at it but he is aging, gone are the likes of Amla, Dravid etc who were experts at surviving a seaming ball. The young talent coming through today is mostly players that can hit the ball around in the shorter forms, and are too talented to overlook for tests but have not developed the skillset to survive tougher conditions.

Often these days tests that have batting friendly pitches end up in high scoring games with results as the run rate batsmen set today is so high. The flip side is we get 2 day tests and the groundsmen get roasted if the ball is doing a bit.

Chanderpaul is another of that ilk although he batted a bit lower than them.

Yeah guys these days are a bit damned whether they do or don't.

I'm certainly glad some of the scoring rates of 20-25 years ago are a thing of the past but conversely so many guys seem to want to hit their way out of trouble rather than have the mindset of battling to survive, graft and rebuild. Hitting out worked for Brook in the last test I guess.

Bazball is a massive factor in this.

Bazball has played it's part with England who was stuck in the old mindset for a long time, but the Aussies are the ones that have led the way with aggressive test match batting. They did used to have the lineup to do it though...

Yeah Chanderpaul is another, I always really liked him as a player, got the most out of his ability. I also agree that it's not necessarily a bad thing, far more tests get results these days and they are generally more entertaining to watch, but we do have to accept 2 - 3 day tests sometimes if the weather conditions lead to the pitch doing more than the groundsmen want. 2 - 3 day tests are great fun in themselves, but also means we don't have nearly as much test cricket on!

@No-Quarter said in Ashes 2025/6:

Bazball has played it's part with England who was stuck in the old mindset for a long time, but the Aussies are the ones that have led the way with aggressive test match batting. They did used to have the lineup to do it though...

Yeah Chanderpaul is another, I always really liked him as a player, got the most out of his ability. I also agree that it's not necessarily a bad thing, far more tests get results these days and they are generally more entertaining to watch, but we do have to accept 2 - 3 day tests sometimes if the weather conditions lead to the pitch doing more than the groundsmen want. 2 - 3 day tests are great fun in themselves, but also means we don't have nearly as much test cricket on!

Yeah Oz kicked things off with Hayden, Ponting, GIlly ( especially ) capable of big ( and rapid ) scoring with others grafting somewhat in comparison around them.

England choose to bat

Australia
1 Jake Weatherald, 2 Travis Head, 3 Marnus Labuschagne, 4 Steven Smith (capt), 5 Usman Khawaja, 6 Alex Carey (wk), 7 Cameron Green, 8 Beau Webster, 9 Michael Neser, 10 Mitchell Starc, 11 Scott Boland

England
1 Zak Crawley, 2 Ben Duckett, 3 Jacob Bethell, 4 Joe Root, 5 Harry Brook, 6 Ben Stokes (capt), 7 Jamie Smith (wk), 8 Will Jacks, 9 Brydon Carse, 10 Matthew Potts, 11 Josh Tongue

Cam Green shouldn't buy a lotto ticket - he's now used up all his luck.

Interesting seeing Webster and Green shoehorned into the same team. With the series sewn up I guess there's room for experimentation.

Speaking of "all rounders" I see Jacob Bethel is listed as one in cricinfo ( 13 first class wickets at 70 )

They love throwing that term around these days.

Duckett out for 27 caught Carey bowled Starc.

....but at least he had a strike rate over 100%

#Bazball

The talk about bazball and shit pitches is rubbish.

Today the 3 English wickets have had fuck all to do with mindset, but techniques. Both openers played poorly to okay deliveries. Bad shape. No feet.
Bethel at least got an absolute peach.

Cam Green 0/45 off 6 so far. Not sure he's even making the 1990's Black Cap all rounders with that economy rate.

MCG was both shit batting (both sides) and an overly spicy pitch.

@Donsteppa said in Ashes 2025/6:

Cam Green 0/45 off 6 so far. Not sure he's even making the 1990's Black Cap all rounders with that economy rate.

MCG was both shit batting (both sides) and an overly spicy pitch.

Shades of Shane Thomson, Dipak Patel, Chris Harris and Justin Vaughan in his Ashes performances so far. Maybe this is the test he justifies that massive amount paid for him. Regardless of that a guy who has taken just over one wicket per test is not an all rounder.

Root and Brook looking to finally get that huge partnership guys of their abilities should have got when the series was still on the line. Both going great.

Not sure when Englands next test is but with their top three shitting the bed yet again I reckon these two need to move up a spot and they need to find someone to bat five. It's not often you see a guy as good as Brook there. Perhaps Stokes could fill the role or they could drop Bethell down a couple of spaces.

@MN5 said in Ashes 2025/6:

@Donsteppa said in Ashes 2025/6:

Cam Green 0/45 off 6 so far. Not sure he's even making the 1990's Black Cap all rounders with that economy rate.

MCG was both shit batting (both sides) and an overly spicy pitch.

Not sure when Englands next test is

It's against the BCs starting June 4th at Lord's.

@sparky said in Ashes 2025/6:

@MN5 said in Ashes 2025/6:

@Donsteppa said in Ashes 2025/6:

Cam Green 0/45 off 6 so far. Not sure he's even making the 1990's Black Cap all rounders with that economy rate.

MCG was both shit batting (both sides) and an overly spicy pitch.

Not sure when Englands next test is

It's against the BCs starting June 4th at Lord's.

Thanks fella, I'm sure McCullum reads the fern and will take my advice on board. He could start in the second innings as a matter of fact.

But yeah, Bazball aside the two best batsmen in the team generally bat three and four. Having one at five seems odd.

Covers are on the field, looks like a storm might be on the way which sux for England.

I think England would be better with Root at 3 and Brook at 4, but I don't think it's totally crazy to have your best batters at 4 and 5. Steve Waugh spent most of his career at 5.

@Cyclops said in Ashes 2025/6:

I think England would be better with Root at 3 and Brook at 4, but I don't think it's totally crazy to have your best batters at 4 and 5. Steve Waugh spent most of his career at 5.

He batted six a lot too as if to totally disprove my theory ( obviously liked his bro protecting him ) but in general the two best are 3/4.

Viv Richards shifted to 5/6 towards the end of his career as did Allan Border.

Yeah I think it's a point in Kane's favour when your compare him to Smith, Root and Kohli that he has almost always batted at 3. Much tougher spot to bat than 4. Kohli and Smith always had a world class 3 in front of them that kind of justified it, but no such excuses for Root.

England's problem is a shortage of quality batting options beyond Root and Brook.

The top four performers in the Top Division of county cricket last year were Dom Sibley, Haseeb Hameed, Adam Lyth and Alex Lees all of whom have Test averages in the 20s.

James Wharton and James Coles are probably the best two young uncapped England batsmen, but both average in the high 30s in first class cricket. Neither look like world-beaters.

@Cyclops said in Ashes 2025/6:

Yeah I think it's a point in Kane's favour when your compare him to Smith, Root and Kohli that he has almost always batted at 3. Much tougher spot to bat than 4. Kohli and Smith always had a world class 3 in front of them that kind of justified it, but no such excuses for Root.

Historically the best 3/4 at the same time would be Dravid and Tendulkar.

Easier for the little master to dominate with the wall guarding him for so long.

Green scything through the Poms with 0/57 off 8 before bad light and rain had the final say.

Brook finally comes to the party.