England v All Blacks

England played the right tactics today - disrupted our ruck ball aggressively and employed rush defence well. You play to the ref on both those counts. We had chances to come back into the game once we’d let it slip, but weren’t up to it. BB was pretty terrible, and I don’t think some of our selections were great for this game. We have some great top-line players, but the likes of Ratima aren’t up to this level, unfortunately. However, better coaching would help cover those weaknesses. We’re very much in Razor’s image atm - when things aren’t going well, we look completely clueless. I feel for Scooter, a great guy and has been a great player, but not a captain’s asshole.

As soon as Roigard went off I felt like any chance we had to win was dashed because it placed more of the game management responsibilities onto BB

Definitely think Ardie will be rested against Wales, alongside of BB, Cam Roigard & Will Jordan

@canefan Roigard is our most influential player at the moment only problem is he is injury prone. Definitely think the game would have panned out differently if Roigard was on the field when England went down to 14 players

@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:

That was shit, and it started with Robertson’s shit selections and tactics.

Proctor has shown absolutely nothing in his many chances at centre, where Tupaea and LF have done well as a combo in their short time together. Breaking that up and selecting Proctor again was a huge mistake.

We went from playing at depth and finding space last week, to the flat footed shit, passing to someone else who is flat footed.

The last 10 of the first half cost us that game.

Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch from penalties which put us deep inside their 22. Changed the whole game. Even if we don’t score, England are pinned in their own end and can’t kick 2x drop kicks. That’s inexcusable, he should have been pulled off straight after the 2nd one.

And why the fuck are we taking taps from penalties 40m out? We were struggling to make metres as it was, brainless stuff.

Garbage.

Proctor underwhelming I admit but I thought he was the best defender amongst our backs. I don’t know what the tackle count was but I would guess he was up there.

Outside of a World Cup you look for opportunities to emulate the week-on-week pressure of a tournament. This was a rare shot at a Grand Slam, Based on this, we’ve gone out in the Semis (poorly).

@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@rewa267 said in England Vs All Blacks:

I think it’s difficult for Razor to get rid of the ill discipline within the All Blacks from the Foster era. We see it in the Chiefs & why they can’t win important games & it’s rares it head in the All Blacks

Blaming Foster & The Chiefs for Robertson's inability to instill on-field discipline after 2 years in charge has to be some of the finest satire or sarcasm I've seen on The Fern. Well done sir!

Right now, I'd fucking love 10% of the discipline & resolve Foster's AB's showed in RWC2023.

That was Schmidt. Come on. Foster’s shitshow was before Schmidt arrived.

Yeah, nothing structural in NZ rugby needs to be looked at. All hunky-dory. Just need to find that one bloke who'll sort everything out

NZ have had a number of poor vintages at u20 level in recent years, with this year being the first to showcase some players who could become ABs in the future.

Whereas England, France and SA have had some very good vintages in the same period.

I think this is playing a big part. We have been very poor, by our standards, at age grade level for a while now, and it is being reflected at senior level. We are falling behind in player development. This year looked better, but we still got roundly beaten by SA (we beat them in SA, but the game could have gone either way and we very nearly fucked up at the end). They also looked on par with France etc.

I mentioned the 2022 U20 team a few weeks back and how quite a few players were now starting to come through the senior ranks. While they smacked Aussie and Argentina(?) we never got to see them on the world stage so it's hard to get a good gauge on them.

20 minutes elapsed in the second half, and the ABs have descended into a rabble. Cam is gone and the gulf to Ratima is huge. We don't seem to be able to build attack, we have made so many errors allowing England to dominate play

@Crazy-Horse horse do you know what make me envious? their 3rd playmaking option Fin Smith missed out on selection this week however that doesn't mean Borthwick will preclude him from future top level tests, on the flip side our equivalent Ruben Love has simply never been in consideration the past 3 weeks now has he.

@Grooter said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Crazy-Horse horse do you know what make me envious? their 3rd playmaking option Fin Smith missed out on selection this week however that doesn't mean Borthwick won't include in him future top level tests, on the flip side our equivalent Ruben Love has simply never been in consideration the past 3 weeks now has he.

@Grooter said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Crazy-Horse horse do you know what make me envious? their 3rd playmaking option Fin Smith missed out on selection this week however that doesn't mean Borthwick won't include in him future top level tests, on the flip side our equivalent Ruben Love has simply never been in consideration the past 3 weeks now has he.

Start Love at 10 with DMac on the bench as the safety option if it doesn’t work. I mean FGS, Henry saw that he had to blood another 10 to deputise for Carter and gave Cruden and Slade their chance. They weren’t great when they first started, but experience has to be gained somehow.

The SA tour next year has to see players be given their chance to stake their claim to the top 23. If it is first team and dirt trackers, what is the point? May as well just play the same 23 until someone gets injured - oh wait, that is the plan

New Zealand needs to develop some First Fives with a skill set similar to George Ford. Too many of our 10s melt at Test level because of poor kicking and defensive games and not really coping with the lack of space.

Beauden Barrett hasn't been the answer this year. I don't think bringing back Richie Mo'unga is the answer either.

After a couple of early mistakes DMac steadied. Multiple penalties on England and DMac puts WJ over with a nice move. But for most of the final quarter we are unable to create a platform in the forwards to get back onto attack. Ball to the backs is slow and too many times we are caught well behind the gain line. What was noticeable to me was the youthfulness of the England team, NZ not so much

@jimmyb Doesn’t have a master worthy of such actions!

Perhaps Scott Robertson should have watched the whole video of England's previous match?

Watching the post match. I always found Goldie to be an AB fan bois, but both he and Mils are increasingly critical of this team

Rugby as a sport hit a new low with that yellow to Taylor. Disappointing all round.

BB needs to be stood down for Wales. DMac to start with Love at 23. Ardie should start on the bench. Leicester and QT into MF. Lord, Darry and Holland should be the locks. I expect Razor to pick BB Ardie and SB

@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:

New Zealand needs to develop some First Fives with a skill set similar to George Ford. Too many of our 10s melt at Test level because of poor kicking and defensive games and not really coping with the lack of space.

If NZ Rugby had an nz eligible George Ford and he won Super Rugby he wouldn't get a proper shot at the ABs he would be relegated to playing AB XV..... that's the issue.....

@KiwiMurph Closest we had was Harry Plummer......

@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:

Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch from penalties which put us deep inside their 22. Changed the whole game. Even if we don’t score, England are pinned in their own end and can’t kick 2x drop kicks. That’s inexcusable, he should have been pulled off straight after the 2nd one.

Aaron Goile in his player ratings seems to be saying that Cam Roigard rather than Beaudy kicked that second one that missed touch. Anyone notice if that's correct?

I thought BB wasn't kicking the one Jordan kicked because his confidence was shot, but maybe he was carrying a groin injury or similar.

I can live with a first five who occasionally misses touch like that first one, because you've got to kick with ambition to get close to the line - and you're using your foot not a rifle.

Missing two was a killer.

@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:

Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch from penalties which put us deep inside their 22. Changed the whole game. Even if we don’t score, England are pinned in their own end and can’t kick 2x drop kicks. That’s inexcusable, he should have been pulled off straight after the 2nd one.

Aaron Goile in his player ratings seems to be saying that Cam Roigard rather than Beaudy kicked that second one that missed touch. Anyone notice if that's correct?

I thought BB wasn't kicking the one Jordan kicked because his confidence was shot, but maybe he was carrying a groin injury or similar.

I can live with a first five who occasionally misses touch like that first one, because you've got to kick with ambition to get close to the line - and you're using your foot not a rifle.

Missing two was a killer.

@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:

Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch from penalties which put us deep inside their 22. Changed the whole game. Even if we don’t score, England are pinned in their own end and can’t kick 2x drop kicks. That’s inexcusable, he should have been pulled off straight after the 2nd one.

Aaron Goile in his player ratings seems to be saying that Cam Roigard rather than Beaudy kicked that second one that missed touch. Anyone notice if that's correct?

I thought BB wasn't kicking the one Jordan kicked because his confidence was shot, but maybe he was carrying a groin injury or similar.

I can live with a first five who occasionally misses touch like that first one, because you've got to kick with ambition to get close to the line - and you're using your foot not a rifle.

Missing two was a killer.

Yes Roigard missed the 2nd touch, and then Will Jordan was taking them early in the 2nd half.

If BB was injured, why was he kept out there?

Razor mentions the two missed penalty touch finders. He also mentions that Cam and BB were both knocked up. Surely that means BB is left out next week? Listening to Razor, I am increasingly convinced that Razor hasn't a clue

@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:

I can live with a first five who occasionally misses touch like that first one, because you've got to kick with ambition to get close to the line - and you're using your foot not a rifle

Disagree. It's about context.

The first one we were up 12-5 I believe and would have been 15 metres out with a conservative kick. There was no need to push the envelope to try and get 5 metres out. Especially as he was on the right side using his right foot so without a banana kick it's naturally going to curl infield. Absolutely ridiculously by a 140+ test capped All Black.

Mils has it. We have some great players. But we continue to be inconsistent in the same areas. I think he's saying the fault is with Razor without saying it. Goldie is chiming in too, saying we aren't playing what's in front of us. Mils and Goldie are gutted, Taylah Johnson is the pitch side interviewer who notes how many of the players don't seem that gutted to lose the way she expected them to

@KiwiMurph We'll have to disagree on that one.

Five minutes from the end of the game, I'm happy with the conservative approach - but, the lineout drive is the easiest try-scoring option in the game so I want my first five to be brave enough to risk missing occasionally.

@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph We'll have to disagree on that one.

Five minutes from the end of the game, I'm happy with the conservative approach - but, the lineout drive is the easiest try-scoring option in the game so I want my first five to be brave enough to risk missing occasionally.

You are up. Away from home. Already have momentum in the game. On this ocassion I dont believe in the risk reward. I think our chances of scoring aren't improved by as much as you think when you are playing England at Twickers.. Not worth the risk reward

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

Taylah Johnson is the pitch side interviewer who notes how many of the players don't seem that gutted to lose the way she expected them to

I've never gone for the "players don't mind losing' theory. But after some of the play we've seen this year, I'm not so sure

Who does everyone want to see start at 10 next week for Beau-Done Barrett?

I think it’s time to give Ruben some love. We don’t learn anything starting DMac.

The chickens came home to roost today

one gun halfback and no one else

A first five who cant kick the ball out of hand good enough for test level and refuses to ever threaten the defence by running

dont have enough speed in the backs

a glory boy at 7 who cherry picks

a captain who never looks like a natural leader

A loosie in Sititi who is anything but 'both sides of the ball'

An empty shirt in ALB

Only trust one hooker apparently.

Defensive system which constantly exposes us to overlaps

Young players in the ABs, ABXV or not even in either squad that never get given an opportunity at test level

Below par high ball work

Below par restart kickoffs where we hand opposition easy exits.

@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:

Who does everyone want to see start at 10 next week for Beau-Done Barrett?

I think it’s time to give Ruben some love. We don’t learn anything starting DMac.

I don't want Love exposed to starting. DMac to start, Reuben to get at least 30 minutes at either 10 or as a 15 double pivot. The boy needs to play, and 15 should be just as up for grabs as 10. WJ can move to wing and be effective

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:

Who does everyone want to see start at 10 next week for Beau-Done Barrett?

I think it’s time to give Ruben some love. We don’t learn anything starting DMac.

I don't want Love exposed to starting. DMac to start, Reuben to get at least 30 minutes at either 10 or as a 15 double pivot. The boy needs to play, and 15 should be just as up for grabs as 10. WJ can move to wing and be effective

Worried about exposed to starting? Against Wales? Has conservative Razor infiltrated your account?

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:

Who does everyone want to see start at 10 next week for Beau-Done Barrett?

I think it’s time to give Ruben some love. We don’t learn anything starting DMac.

I don't want Love exposed to starting. DMac to start, Reuben to get at least 30 minutes at either 10 or as a 15 double pivot. The boy needs to play, and 15 should be just as up for grabs as 10. WJ can move to wing and be effective

Why not, we are playing Wales? This mentality is exactly why the ABs aren’t improving. Give Love the keys, he’s certainly capable enough. Our year is already a failure in my view, let’s at least try something different and see what Love has got to offer. He certainly can’t be any worse than what Beauden offered today.

Soooo will we see Ruben Love get his usual 7 mins on the wing next week?

@African-Monkey said in England Vs All Blacks:

Soooo will we see Ruben Love get his usual 7 mins on the wing next week?

Most likely. Pathetic really. I missed when an ABs coach had balls.

@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:

@kiwiinmelb said in England Vs All Blacks:

What’s becoming obvious, is how far South Africa are ahead of the pack,

It’s them , then the rest battling it out

Yet they got smacked by the Wallabies at home and lost convincingly to us at Eden Park. Their ceiling is the highest but they too are inconsistent

Not as consistent as our 2011 -2015 side but there is no real sign of a decline , if anything they might be getting better and the way it’s looking right now , they could be on their way to winning their third World Cup in a row . Going to be difficult to deny their greatness if that happens.

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

Mils has it. We have some great players. But we continue to be inconsistent in the same areas. I think he's saying the fault is with Razor without saying it. Goldie is chiming in too, saying we aren't playing what's in front of us. Mils and Goldie are gutted, Taylah Johnson is the pitch side interviewer who notes how many of the players don't seem that gutted to lose the way she expected them to

THe losing margin would be in the top 10 in All Black history.

@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:

Who does everyone want to see start at 10 next week for Beau-Done Barrett?

I think it’s time to give Ruben some love. We don’t learn anything starting DMac.

I don't want Love exposed to starting. DMac to start, Reuben to get at least 30 minutes at either 10 or as a 15 double pivot. The boy needs to play, and 15 should be just as up for grabs as 10. WJ can move to wing and be effective

Worried about exposed to starting? Against Wales? Has conservative Razor infiltrated your account?

Hahaha. He's barely had any rugby, he's shown promise for the Canes at 10.

I blame the fluoro boots

@Jet Fakatava is the second best half back in New Zealand and in some games ,depending on the opposition, could be a starter. Has some X factor and a sense of when something is on.

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:

Who does everyone want to see start at 10 next week for Beau-Done Barrett?

I think it’s time to give Ruben some love. We don’t learn anything starting DMac.

I don't want Love exposed to starting. DMac to start, Reuben to get at least 30 minutes at either 10 or as a 15 double pivot. The boy needs to play, and 15 should be just as up for grabs as 10. WJ can move to wing and be effective

Worried about exposed to starting? Against Wales? Has conservative Razor infiltrated your account?

Hahaha. He's barely had any rugby, he's shown promise for the Canes at 10.

You would hope that the Board will be asking him for an explanation as to why Love was not given more game time. It's ridiculous not to build depth in a position where the three guys that you are pinning your hopes on are all in their 30s.