@rewa267 said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Grooter it’s another loss where it could have been a career defining win for Razor. But it is also some what predictable in the Razor era to drop the hardest game and the most important game of the tour
The most worrying sign about the Robertson era is that we play worst in what are known to be important games.........
@rewa267 said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Grooter it’s another loss where it could have been a career defining win for Razor. But it is also some what predictable in the Razor era to drop the hardest game and the most important game of the tour
Even if we turned it around and pipped them at the death it would still rubber-stamp the current trend.
We go life and death with everyone.
We dont grab a game by the scruff of the neck and fucking win it. Like Lions test 1 in 2017.
We brutalised them.
The current team does not impose itself on anyone.
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
@rewa267 said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Grooter it’s another loss where it could have been a career defining win for Razor. But it is also some what predictable in the Razor era to drop the hardest game and the most important game of the tour
The most worrying sign about the Robertson era is that we play worst in what are known to be important games.........
Eden Park against Boks?
Again we start well and dominate the 1st half then it all goes to pot in the 3rd Quarter!!!
It doesn’t work taking BB off from 10 and putting Dmac in, BB needs to stay, dmac at the back, put Jordan on the wing, frees him up to play off BB or Dmac, crap use of the bench this week and it showed, Razor had it right last week, went against what worked.
Ardie disappeared, I thought he got go subbed off for minute there!!
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
@rewa267 said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Grooter it’s another loss where it could have been a career defining win for Razor. But it is also some what predictable in the Razor era to drop the hardest game and the most important game of the tour
The most worrying sign about the Robertson era is that we play worst in what are known to be important games.........
Eden Park against Boks?
That's the one exception, aided by a really strange team selection by Rassie for that game. Not picking the likes of Snyman, Esterhuizen, Sasha, Willemse etc did help us keep our Eden Park record intact.
@BorderJB the one thing i will say about Ardie and did wonder about this during the Super season , how much petrol would he have in the tank come the back end of the season?
He looks absolutely shattered i personally think their were games that either Du Plessis Kirifi and or Peter Lakai could have started in the 7 jersey
Fair to say having Scooter injured did not help and that meant having Ardie pick up the captains role but if i have one issue with this coaching group , we select players but never play them Kirifi and Love are classic case in point
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
Ref manages to ruin the fucking game, again, even without foul play. Makes me want to switch off
I did.
Just watching the game. Early part of the game exposed all of our weaknesses, especially our inability to deal with high balls. We worked our way into the game, Lakai ran hard, Lord snaffled a lineout, and we scored a couple of nice tries. BB is holding us back. Two missed penalty touch finders, short pop kicks, aimless deep kicks aren't offset by his one orthodox deep kick to touch. He just fails to give us the authority and control we have to have
England are much more clinical, they ran well, they know exactly what they are trying to do and they execute. Those two DGs were a killer near the end of the first half
@W32 said in England Vs All Blacks:
You guys make me laugh. #2 in the world and acting like it’s the end of the world. It can be far worse believe me.
I’ve never cared about the world rankings. They lag behind reality and don’t truely reflect results for performance.
England played the right tactics today - disrupted our ruck ball aggressively and employed rush defence well. You play to the ref on both those counts. We had chances to come back into the game once we’d let it slip, but weren’t up to it. BB was pretty terrible, and I don’t think some of our selections were great for this game. We have some great top-line players, but the likes of Ratima aren’t up to this level, unfortunately. However, better coaching would help cover those weaknesses. We’re very much in Razor’s image atm - when things aren’t going well, we look completely clueless. I feel for Scooter, a great guy and has been a great player, but not a captain’s asshole.
As soon as Roigard went off I felt like any chance we had to win was dashed because it placed more of the game management responsibilities onto BB
@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:
That was shit, and it started with Robertson’s shit selections and tactics.
Proctor has shown absolutely nothing in his many chances at centre, where Tupaea and LF have done well as a combo in their short time together. Breaking that up and selecting Proctor again was a huge mistake.
We went from playing at depth and finding space last week, to the flat footed shit, passing to someone else who is flat footed.
The last 10 of the first half cost us that game.
Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch from penalties which put us deep inside their 22. Changed the whole game. Even if we don’t score, England are pinned in their own end and can’t kick 2x drop kicks. That’s inexcusable, he should have been pulled off straight after the 2nd one.
And why the fuck are we taking taps from penalties 40m out? We were struggling to make metres as it was, brainless stuff.
Garbage.
Proctor underwhelming I admit but I thought he was the best defender amongst our backs. I don’t know what the tackle count was but I would guess he was up there.
Outside of a World Cup you look for opportunities to emulate the week-on-week pressure of a tournament. This was a rare shot at a Grand Slam, Based on this, we’ve gone out in the Semis (poorly).
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@rewa267 said in England Vs All Blacks:
I think it’s difficult for Razor to get rid of the ill discipline within the All Blacks from the Foster era. We see it in the Chiefs & why they can’t win important games & it’s rares it head in the All Blacks
Blaming Foster & The Chiefs for Robertson's inability to instill on-field discipline after 2 years in charge has to be some of the finest satire or sarcasm I've seen on The Fern. Well done sir!
Right now, I'd fucking love 10% of the discipline & resolve Foster's AB's showed in RWC2023.
That was Schmidt. Come on. Foster’s shitshow was before Schmidt arrived.
Yeah, nothing structural in NZ rugby needs to be looked at. All hunky-dory. Just need to find that one bloke who'll sort everything out
NZ have had a number of poor vintages at u20 level in recent years, with this year being the first to showcase some players who could become ABs in the future.
Whereas England, France and SA have had some very good vintages in the same period.
I think this is playing a big part. We have been very poor, by our standards, at age grade level for a while now, and it is being reflected at senior level. We are falling behind in player development. This year looked better, but we still got roundly beaten by SA (we beat them in SA, but the game could have gone either way and we very nearly fucked up at the end). They also looked on par with France etc.
I mentioned the 2022 U20 team a few weeks back and how quite a few players were now starting to come through the senior ranks. While they smacked Aussie and Argentina(?) we never got to see them on the world stage so it's hard to get a good gauge on them.
20 minutes elapsed in the second half, and the ABs have descended into a rabble. Cam is gone and the gulf to Ratima is huge. We don't seem to be able to build attack, we have made so many errors allowing England to dominate play
@Crazy-Horse horse do you know what make me envious? their 3rd playmaking option Fin Smith missed out on selection this week however that doesn't mean Borthwick will preclude him from future top level tests, on the flip side our equivalent Ruben Love has simply never been in consideration the past 3 weeks now has he.
@Grooter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Crazy-Horse horse do you know what make me envious? their 3rd playmaking option Fin Smith missed out on selection this week however that doesn't mean Borthwick won't include in him future top level tests, on the flip side our equivalent Ruben Love has simply never been in consideration the past 3 weeks now has he.
@Grooter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Crazy-Horse horse do you know what make me envious? their 3rd playmaking option Fin Smith missed out on selection this week however that doesn't mean Borthwick won't include in him future top level tests, on the flip side our equivalent Ruben Love has simply never been in consideration the past 3 weeks now has he.
Start Love at 10 with DMac on the bench as the safety option if it doesn’t work. I mean FGS, Henry saw that he had to blood another 10 to deputise for Carter and gave Cruden and Slade their chance. They weren’t great when they first started, but experience has to be gained somehow.
The SA tour next year has to see players be given their chance to stake their claim to the top 23. If it is first team and dirt trackers, what is the point? May as well just play the same 23 until someone gets injured - oh wait, that is the plan 
New Zealand needs to develop some First Fives with a skill set similar to George Ford. Too many of our 10s melt at Test level because of poor kicking and defensive games and not really coping with the lack of space.
Beauden Barrett hasn't been the answer this year. I don't think bringing back Richie Mo'unga is the answer either.
After a couple of early mistakes DMac steadied. Multiple penalties on England and DMac puts WJ over with a nice move. But for most of the final quarter we are unable to create a platform in the forwards to get back onto attack. Ball to the backs is slow and too many times we are caught well behind the gain line. What was noticeable to me was the youthfulness of the England team, NZ not so much
Watching the post match. I always found Goldie to be an AB fan bois, but both he and Mils are increasingly critical of this team
BB needs to be stood down for Wales. DMac to start with Love at 23. Ardie should start on the bench. Leicester and QT into MF. Lord, Darry and Holland should be the locks. I expect Razor to pick BB Ardie and SB 
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
New Zealand needs to develop some First Fives with a skill set similar to George Ford. Too many of our 10s melt at Test level because of poor kicking and defensive games and not really coping with the lack of space.
If NZ Rugby had an nz eligible George Ford and he won Super Rugby he wouldn't get a proper shot at the ABs he would be relegated to playing AB XV..... that's the issue.....
@KiwiMurph Closest we had was Harry Plummer......
@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:
Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch from penalties which put us deep inside their 22. Changed the whole game. Even if we don’t score, England are pinned in their own end and can’t kick 2x drop kicks. That’s inexcusable, he should have been pulled off straight after the 2nd one.
Aaron Goile in his player ratings seems to be saying that Cam Roigard rather than Beaudy kicked that second one that missed touch. Anyone notice if that's correct?
I thought BB wasn't kicking the one Jordan kicked because his confidence was shot, but maybe he was carrying a groin injury or similar.
I can live with a first five who occasionally misses touch like that first one, because you've got to kick with ambition to get close to the line - and you're using your foot not a rifle.
Missing two was a killer.
@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:
Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch from penalties which put us deep inside their 22. Changed the whole game. Even if we don’t score, England are pinned in their own end and can’t kick 2x drop kicks. That’s inexcusable, he should have been pulled off straight after the 2nd one.
Aaron Goile in his player ratings seems to be saying that Cam Roigard rather than Beaudy kicked that second one that missed touch. Anyone notice if that's correct?
I thought BB wasn't kicking the one Jordan kicked because his confidence was shot, but maybe he was carrying a groin injury or similar.
I can live with a first five who occasionally misses touch like that first one, because you've got to kick with ambition to get close to the line - and you're using your foot not a rifle.
Missing two was a killer.
@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:
Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch from penalties which put us deep inside their 22. Changed the whole game. Even if we don’t score, England are pinned in their own end and can’t kick 2x drop kicks. That’s inexcusable, he should have been pulled off straight after the 2nd one.
Aaron Goile in his player ratings seems to be saying that Cam Roigard rather than Beaudy kicked that second one that missed touch. Anyone notice if that's correct?
I thought BB wasn't kicking the one Jordan kicked because his confidence was shot, but maybe he was carrying a groin injury or similar.
I can live with a first five who occasionally misses touch like that first one, because you've got to kick with ambition to get close to the line - and you're using your foot not a rifle.
Missing two was a killer.
Yes Roigard missed the 2nd touch, and then Will Jordan was taking them early in the 2nd half.
If BB was injured, why was he kept out there?
Razor mentions the two missed penalty touch finders. He also mentions that Cam and BB were both knocked up. Surely that means BB is left out next week? Listening to Razor, I am increasingly convinced that Razor hasn't a clue
@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:
I can live with a first five who occasionally misses touch like that first one, because you've got to kick with ambition to get close to the line - and you're using your foot not a rifle
Disagree. It's about context.
The first one we were up 12-5 I believe and would have been 15 metres out with a conservative kick. There was no need to push the envelope to try and get 5 metres out. Especially as he was on the right side using his right foot so without a banana kick it's naturally going to curl infield. Absolutely ridiculously by a 140+ test capped All Black.
Mils has it. We have some great players. But we continue to be inconsistent in the same areas. I think he's saying the fault is with Razor without saying it. Goldie is chiming in too, saying we aren't playing what's in front of us. Mils and Goldie are gutted, Taylah Johnson is the pitch side interviewer who notes how many of the players don't seem that gutted to lose the way she expected them to
@KiwiMurph We'll have to disagree on that one.
Five minutes from the end of the game, I'm happy with the conservative approach - but, the lineout drive is the easiest try-scoring option in the game so I want my first five to be brave enough to risk missing occasionally.
@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:
@KiwiMurph We'll have to disagree on that one.
Five minutes from the end of the game, I'm happy with the conservative approach - but, the lineout drive is the easiest try-scoring option in the game so I want my first five to be brave enough to risk missing occasionally.
You are up. Away from home. Already have momentum in the game. On this ocassion I dont believe in the risk reward. I think our chances of scoring aren't improved by as much as you think when you are playing England at Twickers.. Not worth the risk reward
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
Taylah Johnson is the pitch side interviewer who notes how many of the players don't seem that gutted to lose the way she expected them to
I've never gone for the "players don't mind losing' theory. But after some of the play we've seen this year, I'm not so sure
