I think for the most part, NZ teams play similarly, so generally speaking you are able to compare specific stats (will be small variation from differing players roles, but I doubt this would be huge) plus I am sure the coaches have access to far more detailed ones to drill down into the player specifics that they are looking at anyway.
From a matter of depth I think its interesting looking at a Net Impacts 23:
Starters
1. Tamaiti Williams
2. George Bell
3. Pasilio Tosi
4. Tupou Vaa'i
5. Tahlor Cahill
6. Anton Segner
7. Dalton Papali'i
8. Peter Lakai
9. Cameron Roigard
10. Damian Mckenzie
11. Caleb Clarke
12. Timoci Tavatavanawai
13. Quinn Tupaea
14. Dan Sinkinson
15. Will Jordan
Impact
16. Asafo Aumua
17. Josh Fusitua
18. Siale Lauaki
19. Josh Lord
20. Luke Jacobson ( you can argue Kirifi but he covers only 1 position )
21. Noah Hotham
22. Callum Harkin
23.Leicester Faingaanuku
Some interesting bolters. Not who I would pick. However I wouldn't actually complain about a selection like this - just knit pick.
@brodean said in Boks tour squad:
Loose Forwards - Net Impacts Per 80 Minutes
6.55 Fainga'anuku
4 Papali'i
3.53 Kirifi
2.71 Jacobson
2.45 Segner
2.18 Lakai
2.14 Finau
2.03 Flanders
1.38 Blackadder
0.66 Lio Willie
0.63 Parker
-1.21 Gardiner
-4.06 SititiBacks will normally have higher impacts so LF will be somewhat skewed.
(tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten+ turnovers won + dominant tackle - turnovers conceded - missed tackles - penalties conceded - yellow cards )
Player with highest net impacts is Tavatavanawai 8.73.
So a missed tackle is the same as a yellow card? Fineanganofo's 14 tries are worth the same as Jim Tavatavanawai beating 14 players over two games without erally going anywhere?
@reprobate yet he has never been employed that way. There is always a perception that someone will always be better without any other reason than he's better some other way
@reprobate said in Boks tour squad:
@brodean said in Boks tour squad:
Loose Forwards - Net Impacts Per 80 Minutes
6.55 Fainga'anuku
4 Papali'i
3.53 Kirifi
2.71 Jacobson
2.45 Segner
2.18 Lakai
2.14 Finau
2.03 Flanders
1.38 Blackadder
0.66 Lio Willie
0.63 Parker
-1.21 Gardiner
-4.06 SititiBacks will normally have higher impacts so LF will be somewhat skewed.
(tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten+ turnovers won + dominant tackle - turnovers conceded - missed tackles - penalties conceded - yellow cards )
Player with highest net impacts is Tavatavanawai 8.73.
So a missed tackle is the same as a yellow card? Fineanganofo's 14 tries are worth the same as Jim Tavatavanawai beating 14 players over two games without erally going anywhere?
Well you can suggest some weights to the metrics if you like and I can feed them in.
A bunch of wingers tries are run ins. Yes Fineanganofo has 14 tries but he's also benefited from a team in hot form.
You don't think Tavatavanawai goes anywhere?
Metres per run
4.6 Tavatavanawai
4.6 Tupaea
3.6 Havili
3.4 Taele
2.9 Barrett
2.1 Ahki
Clean Breaks
9 Tupaea
8 Tavatavanawai
4 Barrett
1 Taele
1 Havili
0 Ahki
Offloads
15 Tavatavanawai
11 Barrett
9 Tupaea
9 Havili
5 Taele
4 Ahki
Turnovers Won
12 Tavatavanawai ( Only McReight as more. )
11 Tupaea
3 Barrett
3 Havili
3 Taele
1 Ahki
Dominant Tackles
8 Barrett
6 Tavatavanawai
5 Tupaea
5 Taele
2 Havili
1 Ahki
Guy is more than just defenders beaten.
I think it would be pretty interesting having 2 turnover guys in the midfield like Tavatavanawai and Tupaea then letting loose forwards focus more on defense and dominating collisions. Anyway I'd still go with JB at 12 personally.
That said I think Tavatavanawai is a good guy to have in the squad.
@brodean Don't get me wrong, I like Tavatavanawai a lot and would pick him in the squad at a minimum - but he can go on a run for 3m and beat 3 defenders. If Tangitau beats three guys it's likely to be 2 tries.
If you do play a guy like that, then you need a game plan to use his strengths, not just stick him on the bench and bring him on at 60 minutes to play the Jordie role which he isn't the guy for.
@taniwharugby said in Boks tour squad:
@brodean interesting Tangitau isn't there given he seems to have had a number of longer runs.
#midfilders
@Kiwiwomble well was mention of 'wingers' in the same post.
Think the 44-man squad will look something like this...
Hookers (4) - Codie Taylor, Samisoni Taukei'aho, Asafo Aumua, George Bell
Props (7) - Ethan de Groot, Xavier Numia, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, George Bower, Fletcher Newell, Pasilio Tosi, Tyrel Lomax
Locks (6) - Scott Barrett, Tupou Vaa'i, Josh Lord, Sam Darry, Fabian Holland, Fiti Sa
Loose forwards (8) - Ardie Savea, Luke Jacobson, Peter Lakai, Wallace Sititi, Simon Parker, Dom Gardiner, Samipeni Finau, Lucas Casey
Halfbacks (4) - Cam Roigard, Cortez Ratima, Noah Hotham, Finlay Christie
First fives (4) - Damian McKenzie, Ruben Love, Beauden Barrett, Callum Harkin
Centres (5) - Jordie Barrett, Quinn Tupaea, Anton Lienert-Brown, Rieko Ioane, Billy Proctor
Outside backs (6) - Will Jordan, Caleb Clarke, Emoni Narawa, Leicester Fainga'anuku, Isaac Hutchinson, Chay Fihaki
@Mr-Fish said in Boks tour squad:
Think the 44-man squad will look something like this...
Hookers (4) - Codie Taylor, Samisoni Taukei'aho, Asafo Aumua, George Bell
Props (7) - Ethan de Groot, Xavier Numia, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, George Bower, Fletcher Newell, Pasilio Tosi, Tyrel Lomax
Locks (6) - Scott Barrett, Tupou Vaa'i, Josh Lord, Sam Darry, Fabian Holland, Fiti Sa
Loose forwards (8) - Ardie Savea, Luke Jacobson, Peter Lakai, Wallace Sititi, Simon Parker, Dom Gardiner, Samipeni Finau, Lucas Casey
Halfbacks (4) - Cam Roigard, Cortez Ratima, Noah Hotham, Finlay Christie
First fives (4) - Damian McKenzie, Ruben Love, Beauden Barrett, Callum Harkin
Centres (5) - Jordie Barrett, Quinn Tupaea, Anton Lienert-Brown, Rieko Ioane, Billy Proctor
Outside backs (6) - Will Jordan, Caleb Clarke, Emoni Narawa, Leicester Fainga'anuku, Isaac Hutchinson, Chay Fihaki
Really good. Only changes I would make are Preston or roe instead of Christie. Im not sure Hutchinson is there. And is ALB there
Bit tough on Ollie Norris and Leroy Carter if that is the picks. I think Ofa is yesterday's man. Wish Roe was not leaving as he seems next best behind Roigard currently.
Josh Beehre, Tevita Mafileo, Anton Segner, Josh Jacomb, Rieko Ioane might all have a case for a trip
@DurryMexted said in Boks tour squad:
@Mr-Fish said in Boks tour squad:
Think the 44-man squad will look something like this...
Hookers (4) - Codie Taylor, Samisoni Taukei'aho, Asafo Aumua, George Bell
Props (7) - Ethan de Groot, Xavier Numia, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, George Bower, Fletcher Newell, Pasilio Tosi, Tyrel Lomax
Locks (6) - Scott Barrett, Tupou Vaa'i, Josh Lord, Sam Darry, Fabian Holland, Fiti Sa
Loose forwards (8) - Ardie Savea, Luke Jacobson, Peter Lakai, Wallace Sititi, Simon Parker, Dom Gardiner, Samipeni Finau, Lucas Casey
Halfbacks (4) - Cam Roigard, Cortez Ratima, Noah Hotham, Finlay Christie
First fives (4) - Damian McKenzie, Ruben Love, Beauden Barrett, Callum Harkin
Centres (5) - Jordie Barrett, Quinn Tupaea, Anton Lienert-Brown, Rieko Ioane, Billy Proctor
Outside backs (6) - Will Jordan, Caleb Clarke, Emoni Narawa, Leicester Fainga'anuku, Isaac Hutchinson, Chay FihakiReally good. Only changes I would make are Preston or roe instead of Christie. Im not sure Hutchinson is there. And is ALB there
I don't think Roe or Preston are long-term options. Neither is Christie but he's been around the squad before and he'd do fine playing 20-odd minutes off the pine in the mid-week fixtures if needed. Basically we're still waiting on a new promising halfback (likely Pledger) and I don't love throwing caps at guys who aren't really deserving of a call-up just because of injuries.
ALB has been playing pretty well under Rennie in Japan and I'm not sure there are any other midfielders banging the door down. Maybe a Rona or Taele would be worth a go.
@ARHS said in Boks tour squad:
Bit tough on Ollie Norris and Leroy Carter if that is the picks. I think Ofa is yesterday's man. Wish Roe was not leaving as he seems next best behind Roigard currently.
Josh Beehre, Tevita Mafileo, Anton Segner, Josh Jacomb, Rieko Ioane might all have a case for a trip
Opted for Sa over Beehre but given Vaa'i is quite likely going to be playing on the flank you could drop another loosie and bring both along. Norris v Tu'ungafasi v Bower v Lauaki could be interesting. I like Norris but not sure they'd take both him and Numia. Ioane is in there in the midfield. Carter just doesn't have the high ball game but given he's potentially a midfield option off the pine he could definitely still be involved. Segner is competing with Savea, Lakai and Jacobson and I don't think he's a better option in any position than that trio.
Only selecting seven props would mean one of them doubling up in the week of the final warm-up so perhaps one of the outside backs would make way for another prop.
@nostrildamus said in Boks tour squad:
How is Norris' scrummaging? That was what he had to work on if I recall correctly..
Better now than it was a couple of years ago but still slightly below where'd you want it to be for a Test prop.
@Rugbyman said in Boks tour squad:
@Mr-Fish Competition is Bower and Canes Prop. I think he has the most upside of the 3 but I would pick Bower as the 3rd prop as he is a fairly solid scrumager and very experienced. Those 2 battle it out on the SA tour to be on the bench behind Landers prop.
I imagine at least one prop who can play both sides of the scrum will be selected for the tour to allow for more flexibility with the mid-week teams. Tu'ungafasi and Mafileo are the two that come to mind.
@nostrildamus said in Boks tour squad:
How is Norris' scrummaging? That was what he had to work on if I recall correctly..
Not good enough to take on Boks tightheads.
