Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland

@No-Quarter said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

So, so good to see Jamieson named in the test side. It's his strongest format, fingers crossed the injury woes are behind him and he can resume fashioning a world class record again.

Jamieson, O'Rourke and Henry are Boult/Wagner/Southee level..........possibly better.....but all three have had niggles.

Add that to the batting line up and not dwelling too much on who is keeping and this is a team that can and should do bloody well in this series.

The main thing for me is that Nicholls has edged ahead of Young as the backup top order batsman.

@Bovidae said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

The main thing for me is that Nicholls has edged ahead of Young as the backup top order batsman.

"backup" is the key word there. The top five could not possibly be more set in stone.

Conway has seen off the challenge of Young with aplomb.

@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

I hope Zak Crawley gets picked for England

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Bad news, hes been dropped

@Virgil said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

I hope Zak Crawley gets picked for England

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Bad news, hes been dropped

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Bugger.....that's his career over then.

This tour is quite nerve wracking when you consider how things went over there last time. I hope lessons have been learnt.

Gonna have to do some stats googling of these new English youngsters too.

Did I read somewhere that the game against Ireland is only a four dayer?

Anyone know what the story is there?

@Gunner If they cannot beat Ireland in four days then serious questions must be asked of all those involved.

@Higgins said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Gunner If they cannot beat Ireland in four days then serious questions must be asked of all those involved.

You’re not wrong, but surely they still have to schedule the test for the full 5 days?

@Gunner said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Higgins said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Gunner If they cannot beat Ireland in four days then serious questions must be asked of all those involved.

You’re not wrong, but surely they still have to schedule the test for the full 5 days?

Is it a 'test'?

@Higgins said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Gunner If they cannot beat Ireland in four days then serious questions must be asked of all those involved.

Do we expect them to win T20's v Ireland within 16 overs too?

@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Gunner said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Higgins said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Gunner If they cannot beat Ireland in four days then serious questions must be asked of all those involved.

You’re not wrong, but surely they still have to schedule the test for the full 5 days?

Is it a 'test'?

Good question.

Probably not if it’s four days.

If that is the case, what is the fucking point. What a waste of time.

@Gunner said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Gunner said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Higgins said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Gunner If they cannot beat Ireland in four days then serious questions must be asked of all those involved.

You’re not wrong, but surely they still have to schedule the test for the full 5 days?

Is it a 'test'?

Good question.

Probably not if it’s four days.

If that is the case, what is the fucking point. What a waste of time.

Acclimatise to conditions, recover from any jet lag, and get some cricket in before the English test series, and give Irish cricket a game to promote and the fans something to enjoy.

That said, NZ Cricket has it listed as a test so it's probably a test although it's not part of the World Test Championship.

Yes it's a test. There was a 4 day test somewhere last year too (maybe England vs Ireland). There doesn't seem to be a rule requiring 5 days in general, but the WTC does require all matches to be 5 days. But since Ireland aren't in the WTC we're okay.

A 4 day test also has longer days. It's still shorter than a 5 day match, but it's a loss of 2 sessions rather than a full day.

@Godder said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Gunner said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Gunner said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Higgins said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Gunner If they cannot beat Ireland in four days then serious questions must be asked of all those involved.

You’re not wrong, but surely they still have to schedule the test for the full 5 days?

Is it a 'test'?

Good question.

Probably not if it’s four days.

If that is the case, what is the fucking point. What a waste of time.

Acclimatise to conditions, recover from any jet lag, and get some cricket in before the English test series, and give Irish cricket a game to promote and the fans something to enjoy.

That said, NZ Cricket has it listed as a test so it's probably a test although it's not part of the World Test Championship.

There was talk of making all tests four days wasn't there?

You could adjust the sessions to get the same number of overs.

Just throwing around some numbers: 5 x 90 = 450 overs say, so 112 per day gets 448. Would need an 8 hour day, so an extra session.

Wouldn't get the wear on the pitch over five days though.

And potential to exhaust the fielding team.

@booboo said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Godder said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Gunner said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Gunner said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Higgins said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Gunner If they cannot beat Ireland in four days then serious questions must be asked of all those involved.

You’re not wrong, but surely they still have to schedule the test for the full 5 days?

Is it a 'test'?

Good question.

Probably not if it’s four days.

If that is the case, what is the fucking point. What a waste of time.

Acclimatise to conditions, recover from any jet lag, and get some cricket in before the English test series, and give Irish cricket a game to promote and the fans something to enjoy.

That said, NZ Cricket has it listed as a test so it's probably a test although it's not part of the World Test Championship.

There was talk of making all tests four days wasn't there?

You could adjust the sessions to get the same number of overs.

Just throwing around some numbers: 5 x 90 = 450 overs say, so 112 per day gets 448. Would need an 8 hour day, so an extra session.

Wouldn't get the wear on the pitch over five days though.

And potential to exhaust the fielding team.

Fewer longer days would mean less rest (3 nights/chances to sleep instead of 4), so could even out or even be more exhausting. First class cricket reduced the number of days in NZ years ago and it hasn't impacted things that much, but it does rather rely on good light later in the day.

At Test level it would need faster over rates than the current cohort manages.

@Godder I know I am getting on a bit in years with the associated slight memory challenges but attended four days of Plunkett Shield match last season (pretty much all by myself it must be confessed) so am confused by your assertion that the number of days have been reduced. I was sure when I was a tad younger they were only three day encounters with hours of pay between 10.30am and 6.30pm.

@Higgins said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@Godder I know I am getting on a bit in years with the associated slight memory challenges but attended four days of Plunkett Shield match last season (pretty much all by myself it must be confessed) so am confused by your assertion that the number of days have been reduced. I was sure when I was a tad younger they were only three day encounters with hours of pay between 10.30am and 6.30pm.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Then I wondered if I missed first class games being reduced to three days again.

Sorry, forgot that we went back to 4 days. As you were!

So this will be Irelands 11th test match and their first against NZ.

They've beaten Zimbabwe twice, Afghanistan once and lost to Afghanistan, Sri Lanka ( twice ), England ( twice ) Bangladesh and Pakistan. Not one draw curiously enough.

That indicates they're not entirely shit and worthy of test status which can only be good for the game.

However I hope the BCs select their top team and give them a sound beating.

@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

So this will be Irelands 10th test match and their first against NZ.

They've beaten Zimbabwe twice, Afghanistan once and lost to Afghanistan, Sri Lanka ( twice ), England ( twice ) Bangladesh and Pakistan. Not one draw curiously enough.

That indicates they're not entirely shit and worthy of test status which can only be good for the game.

However I hope the BCs select their top team and give them a sound beating.

Are we a good chance of making the test final if we beat Ireland, then England away,? Or is there still plenty of cricket to play. I've been out of the loop with the BCs so haven't caught up with everything.

We also have a 4 test series against Australia including a boxing day test that will probably stuff us. I've never been able to get a good sense of possible outcomes with the percentage system the WTC uses, so no idea how much that hurts us.

The Ireland match doesn't matter though, they're not in the WTC (nor are Zimbabwe or Afghanistan).

@Cyclops said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

We also have a 4 test series against Australia including a boxing day test that will probably stuff us. I've never been able to get a good sense of possible outcomes with the percentage system the WTC uses, so no idea how much that hurts us.

The Ireland match doesn't matter though, they're not in the WTC (nor are Zimbabwe or Afghanistan).

penalties for slow over rates also effect that percentage system.

I'm happy we are playing Ireland, great exposure for them and we get a good warm up going into the England series. For once NZ cricket has got something half right re: scheduling.

@Canes4life said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

So this will be Irelands 10th test match and their first against NZ.

They've beaten Zimbabwe twice, Afghanistan once and lost to Afghanistan, Sri Lanka ( twice ), England ( twice ) Bangladesh and Pakistan. Not one draw curiously enough.

That indicates they're not entirely shit and worthy of test status which can only be good for the game.

However I hope the BCs select their top team and give them a sound beating.

Are we a good chance of making the test final if we beat Ireland, then England away,? Or is there still plenty of cricket to play. I've been out of the loop with the BCs so haven't caught up with everything.

Unfortunately the Ireland result means nothing in terms of WTC points.

Two away series against England and Australia will be huge.

New Zealand have the talent to do well ( so, SO many top class players ) but its the hope that kills ya !

KW stat update ( mainly for the old boy @Virgil )

Currently sitting on an incredible 9,461 runs at 54.68.

eight tests coming up vs Ireland, England and Australia. So potentially 16 innings to get 539 runs and join a very elite list, only 15 guys on there.

Not accounting for not outs and assuming he averages a very modest ( for him ) 33.68 during this period he'll get there. If he bumps the average up a bit he'll get there this year ( last Aussie test is in January next year )

I don't know KW from a bar of soap but I can 100% guarantee that milestone will be in his sights.

As it stands he's not actually our top rated player at the moment. He's fifth in the batting rankings behind Root, Brook, Head and Smith.

Our best is Matt Henry who is ranked an amazing third behind Bumrah and Starc.

@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

I don't know KW from a bar of soap but I can 100% guarantee that milestone will be in his sights.

From everything I know about him, he is remarkably unconcerned about personal milestones - otherwise he'd have a lot more ODI centuries.

@KiwiPie said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

I don't know KW from a bar of soap but I can 100% guarantee that milestone will be in his sights.

From everything I know about him, he is remarkably unconcerned about personal milestones - otherwise he'd have a lot more ODI centuries.

Interesting. Bit of a contrast to our other ATG Paddles. He was stats obsessed.

I remember reading when he played against Sri Lanka him and Jeff Crowe were in the middle of a big partnership. Apparently someone let them know that whoever got the next hundred would score the hundredth ton for NZ. Given Hadlee had broken every single bowling record under the sun at that point ( and continued to do so ) one would think he'd do the magnanimous thing and let Crowe get it. Not Hadlee, he accelerated his scoring rate and got there ahead of him ! poor old Jeff Crowe, always in his brothers shadow had to make do with scoring century number 101 !

Back to KW, I hope he doesn't have an end of career slump like Lara, Tendulkar, Ponting and Dravid. Those guys all went on too long.

@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

eight tests coming up vs Ireland, England and Australia. So potentially 16 innings to get 539 runs and join a very elite list, only 15 guys on there.

There are two tests against India at home in November as well (also part of the WTC)!

Looks like the team will be even more inexperienced than before.

Any Irish ferner cricket fans out there ?

I think I already know the answer.

Disappointing that the returning quick bowlers aren't playing.

We're batting first.

@Bovidae said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

Disappointing that the returning quick bowlers aren't playing.

We're batting first.

Taking Ireland lightly ?

I can't believe none of Henry, Jamieson or O'Rourke are playing.

Bowling line up should still do the job but very journeymanish in comparison.

Is this going to be worth watching?

I'm guessing from my BBC alert less than 4 minutes after kick off... the answer is no.

Irish eyes will be smiling getting the NZ captain out second ball.

17/1

@MN5

I'll have a go on at this but it's a bit of a long story. Basically the team was elevated to Test status following quite reasonable performances in the 50-over World Cups in 2007, 2011 and 2015. That team was a bit of a relative golden generation for Irish cricket with the likes of Joyce, Morgan, the O'Briens, Rankin, Porterfield and Stirling all coming through at around the same time in what is a minority sport here.

However, as mentioned up thread, this is only Ireland's 12th test since their first one in 2018. There seems to be quite serious challenges regarding funding and this has impacted the fixture list quite a bit. For a few years there was a domestic three-day interprovincial championship but that hasn't been contested since 2019, raising the question of how can Ireland expect to produce test players with no domestic first class cricket? A lot of the 2007 to 2015 era team were able to develop this experience in English county cricket but that option is mainly off the table at the moment as Irish players are now considered to be 'overseas' and so less attractive to English counties. Another little flurry of players did emerge just after the Covid years in Little, the Tectors and Tucker - possibly the last ones to benefit from having had a domestic multi-day competition to play in. In more recent years many of the debutants and development squad members have been Irish-qualified players originally from overseas.

In response to the question posed elsewhere concerning why this is a four-day game? Again, I wouldn't be surprised if it's as simple as that it's because they are less expensive to host than five-day games.

@Beige-XI said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:

how can Ireland expect to produce test players with no domestic first class cricket?

this is key. I understand that was a critical element in Bangladesh getting regular test status.
*
Also NZ doing pretty well - Ravindra 120 odd and Blundell 128* as I type. Irish bowler adair looks good, tall, getting bounce

Blundell with a career extending knock at a much needed time. Ravindra sounded class too. Things looking slightly dicey there for awhile so good on both. Good support from our latest South African import too.

KW with a real "meh" score of 36, when he makes a start he almost always goes on. Most unusual.

Declaration after the first session maybe ? it's only a four day test after all.