@Machpants said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@MajorRage said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Fair play to the Jaguares ... tough travel across for the game, and I suspect there may not have been another team in the comp that would have beaten them tonight. If they hold on to most players for next year, they will be very tough to beat. Certainly a long way from where they started.

But you can't score 3 points in a final an expect to win anything. One bombed try, and two close chances don't count for much, when I think the Saders let themselves down a couple of times too. If everybody had taken 80% of their chances, the score would have been something like 30-18.

But they didn't, and hence scoreboard pressure meant the Saders never really had to take risks, whilst the Jaguares did. And that ... is final's rugby.

They'll be better for it next year.

Jaguares will be around for a while They benefit from clear pathways with a team playing CC rugby in SA & U20 players emerging at a steady rate

Matera will be badly missed Matera is the best #6 in World Rugby and it;s not really close

Lavinnini is replaceable Very good player but his hands are fecking awful

Moreover with a round robin format from 2021 onwards this will suit Jaguares well They tour well + win games in AUS & NZ

SA teams can't win in NZ & AUS AUS teams will remain rubbish

Even the NZ teams will be weakened

Blues will remain a show Highlanders will revert back to being bottom feeders

Canes will be screwed when Barrett Brothers likely leave

Yeah whatever, keep up your morale however you fancy.
Simple fact NZ teams win most SR titles, it's not going to change

You should be proud of what the Jags achieved, not bragging about things that they have not

You've misunderstood my point

Crusaders set the standard in Super Rugby They'll remain the preeminent force & the team to beat in SR

Chiefs will be dangerous with Gatland back & have the game to beat Jaguares

Hurricanes will have a better squad in 2020 but without Barrett bros they're fucked

@Jaguares4real Maybe. My point is, NZ teams actually play rugby and do well, even when t looks like they are fooked. I tell you what, next season, a depleted NZ SR team will do well. Cos we have depth and that's what we do. Saying crap like 'canes without barretts are rubbish' is dumb shiite, we'll still do well - canes will still be up there next year, baretts or no. Team, not individuals.

@Machpants

I'm proud of the Jaguares season but I'm not one to settle for "well done pat yourself on the back"

That kind of mentality disgusts me

Los Pumas will use the Jaguares success as a springboard for the RWC campaign

TRC friendlies will serve as trials for those aspiring to make RWC squad

Future is bright in ARG rugby

@Machpants said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real Maybe. My point is, NZ teams actually play rugby and do well, even when t looks like they are fooked. I tell you what, next season, a depleted NZ SR team will do well. Cos we have depth and that's what we do. Saying crap like 'canes without barretts are rubbish' is dumb shiite, we'll still do well - canes will still be up there next year, baretts or no. Team, not individuals.

Disagree

Hurricanes rely on their star players to deliver: Barrett brothers Laumape Savea Coles & TJP

Without a few of them they'll be a much diminished team

Good enough to make playoffs but not a contender to win it all IMO

Crusaders have strength in numbers & strength in depth

That's the greatness of the Crusaders summarised in one sentecne

Hooray! We win!

@Steven-Harris said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Why replace Hall..?hes been outstanding..!

Substitution by rote

@akan004 said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Strange decision to go for three .

Nup. Test match intensity. Gift 3. Good call.

The kick from 45m on the angle I thought was ambitious and they should have plugged the corner. But test match intensity ...

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

second one of those off-loads of Materas that looks to have gone forward out of hand

The one for the bombed try by Moroni looked ... err .. . borderline

@No-Quarter said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Should have been a penalty for holding on. Marshall is talking shit.

No!? Really?

@Yeetyaah said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

What a boring game and comp. Saders win again. Maybe time to spread the talent.

Bolded text: I really enjoyed it.

Not bolded bit: there's plenty of talent elsewhere. Just got to develop themselves better.

@Damo said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

They're up by 16 points. Why are they just running the clock down? Seems very negative to me.

It's winning

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Crusaders were functional and did enough to win & were clinical when they got a chance

Somewhat self contradictory post.

Perhaps understandable in the circumstances

@Donsteppa said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

“The better team” never loses a game 19 - 3.

My immediate reaction was very similar.

My thoughts were "19-3 says they weren't".

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Donsteppa said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

“The better team” never loses a game 19 - 3.

they do when they leave at least 15 points on the table and gift a try through a winger having a brain fart

That makes them a poor team.

@booboo said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Crusaders were functional and did enough to win & were clinical when they got a chance

Somewhat self contradictory post.

Perhaps understandable in the circumstances

Two things can be right at the same time Doesn't have to a binary choice

Crusaders deserved to win but Jaguares were the better team

Rarely happens but then I'm not a box score scout who just looks at the final whistle score

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@booboo said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Crusaders were functional and did enough to win & were clinical when they got a chance

Somewhat self contradictory post.

Perhaps understandable in the circumstances

Two things can be right at the same time Doesn't have to a binary choice

Crusaders deserved to win but Jaguares were the better team

Rarely happens but then I'm not a box score scout who just looks at the final whistle score

Give it a rest, seriously.

Crusaders name on the trophy, 19-3, they were the better team, no question. Your little moral we were the better team crap counts for zilch. Nothing. Nada.

And it’s bollocks. 19-3 is one sided.

You won’t give a shit but I would have supported the Jaguares today if not for you. I doubt I’m alone.

@MajorRage

I'm heartbroken that a random dude would have supported the Jaguares if not for the horrible crime of me Supporting the Jaguares vociferously

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@MajorRage

I'm heartbroken that a random dude would have supported the Jaguares if not for the horrible crime of me Supporting the Jaguares vociferously

Supporting?

I hope the Jags play better in two weeks or the Weakened ABs will destroy them.

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@booboo said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Crusaders were functional and did enough to win & were clinical when they got a chance

Somewhat self contradictory post.

Perhaps understandable in the circumstances

Two things can be right at the same time Doesn't have to a binary choice

True. But not when one of them is wrong.

Hairies may had some better stats with ball in hand, but how good were Saders on D?

Some serious Kyle Gass-Jack Black action going on there.

Out-scrummed, out box-kicked, out-defended, out-tactic-ed, out scored their opposition.

Better team won comfortably.

Not to mention the whole sliding doors if they get one of their scores they left out there...

Just further on one (well two) of my points above, how impressive was the leadership to change up the tactics when Plan A wasn't working?

Not easy to abandon the game plan and switch mentality.

@MajorRage said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

I would have supported the Jaguares today if not for you. I doubt I’m alone.

I would’ve supported the Jags if they were playing an Aussie team or South African side or the Chiefs

@MajorRage go a bit easy on @Jaguares4real buddy. Moral victories are what you take when you can’t have real ones

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@booboo said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Crusaders were functional and did enough to win & were clinical when they got a chance

Somewhat self contradictory post.

Perhaps understandable in the circumstances

Two things can be right at the same time Doesn't have to a binary choice

Crusaders deserved to win but Jaguares were the better team

Rarely happens but then I'm not a box score scout who just looks at the final whistle score

This is great stuff. Means the Canes were the better team last weekend. Will there be a parade down Lambton Quay ? Hope so.

@MN5 said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@booboo said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Crusaders were functional and did enough to win & were clinical when they got a chance

Somewhat self contradictory post.

Perhaps understandable in the circumstances

Two things can be right at the same time Doesn't have to a binary choice

Crusaders deserved to win but Jaguares were the better team

Rarely happens but then I'm not a box score scout who just looks at the final whistle score

This is great stuff. Means the Canes were the better team last weekend. Will there be a parade down Lambton Quay ? Hope so.

But but but the Jags were simultaneously the best and second best team in the comp! The artificially modified competition ladder says so. Competition points and actual scoreboard points mean nothing!

@pukunui said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@MN5 said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@booboo said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Crusaders were functional and did enough to win & were clinical when they got a chance

Somewhat self contradictory post.

Perhaps understandable in the circumstances

Two things can be right at the same time Doesn't have to a binary choice

Crusaders deserved to win but Jaguares were the better team

Rarely happens but then I'm not a box score scout who just looks at the final whistle score

This is great stuff. Means the Canes were the better team last weekend. Will there be a parade down Lambton Quay ? Hope so.

But but but the Jags were simultaneously the best and second best team in the comp! The artificially modified competition ladder says so. Competition points and actual scoreboard points mean nothing!

I know.....and don’t get me started on all the meaningless friendlies that International rugby teams play. What a waste of time

@MN5 said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

arted on all the meaningless friendlies that International rugby teams play. What a waste of tim

I'm trying to educate a mostly Kiwi crowd here about the ARG mentality

There been at times an indifference to most Int'l games especially Summer test matches & EOYT to Europe

ARG is unique in having a diabolical travelling schedule and a shallow playing

Add Bad coaching and Management at UAR level & you have a cocktail for disaster

This has only been reversed in last 18 months with Ledesma & Quesada

RWC and Improvements in TRC are the criteria in which ARG measure itself

Test matches they may be called but that's a fancy word for friendlies
This country beating that country in 2017 means fuck all in 2019

Rugby runs on 4 year cycles I couldn't give a fuck about most Pumas games from 2016-19

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@MN5 said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

arted on all the meaningless friendlies that International rugby teams play. What a waste of tim

I'm trying to educate a mostly Kiwi crowd here about the ARG mentality

There been at times an indifference to most Int'l games especially Summer test matches & EOYT to Europe

ARG is unique in having a diabolical travelling schedule and a shallow playing

Add Bad coaching and Management at UAR level & you have a cocktail for disaster

This has only been reversed in last 18 months with Ledesma & Quesada

RWC and Improvements in TRC are the criteria in which ARG measure itself

Test matches they may be called but that's a fancy word for friendlies
This country beating that country in 2017 means fuck all in 2019

Rugby runs on 4 year cycles I couldn't give a fuck about most Pumas games from 2016-19

If that is reflective of the Argentine attitude then that may be why they're not improving.

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Test matches they may be called but that's a fancy word for friendlies

Conversely friendlies is a stupid word for test matches.

There is nothing friendly about them as most players would attest.

@booboo

It reflective to a degree but it should be based in context

You've got to cut your cloth accordingly

The big thing in ARG is increase their playing pool

There was a Jaguares XV playing CC rugby in SA and played & won their 1st game yesterday

Thar side was comprised of fringe Jaguares and a bunch of U20 players

Another thing going ARG way is the continuing decimation of SA NZ & AUS SR teams as their players to Europe & Japan

This will make ARG even stronger as their competitors in SANZAAR get hollowed out

NZ is insulted by its player pool but their SR sides will be weaker nonetheless with 1 or 2 exceptions

And once again, finals experience is a major difference.

Committed defence, a gun kicking game and actually all things considered a pretty comfortable win with it all wrapped up with 10 minutes to go.

No where near as competitive or captivating as the canes semi final.

@ACT-Crusader said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@MajorRage said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

I would have supported the Jaguares today if not for you. I doubt I’m alone.

I would’ve supported the Jags if they were playing an Aussie team or South African side or the Chiefs

In that case... can we have our coach back then? I’d like to see a breakdance at Tauranga Domain...

@Siam said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

And once again, finals experience is a major difference.

Committed defence, a gun kicking game and actually all things considered a pretty comfortable win with it all wrapped up with 10 minutes to go.

No where near as competitive or captivating as the canes semi final.

Once again home advantage is also a major difference. I think every play-off game this year was won by the home team?

Past few years there has been a slight bucking of the trend that it's beyond difficult to win a play-off game outside your country, with the slanted competition structure meaning some significantly stronger NZ teams have had to travel to Oz/SA and have won.

Jags would have been tough to beat in BA, but they largely lost this final in the first month or so of the competition.

@Chris-B The Chiefs almost rolled the Jaguares in the quarter final. And NZ teams in general have not struggled in Argentina.

So I don't think shifting venues would have made much difference.

Home teams tend to win the play off games because they are the better teams.

@Chester-Draws said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Home teams tend to win the play off games because they are the better teams.

Yep - that's certainly part of the equation - or, at least, it's supposed to be.

@Siam said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

And once again, finals experience is a major difference.

Committed defence, a gun kicking game and actually all things considered a pretty comfortable win with it all wrapped up with 10 minutes to go.

No where near as competitive or captivating as the canes semi final.

That's because that was the best team vs the second best, not the best team vs a team there because of broadcasting deals in SA (tho it didn't work out too well for SA this year!)

Piling in quite late to this.

You guys are are a bit sensitive to @Jaguares4real . He may be over=egging slightly, but that Jags side can go home feeling like they gave that a real crack. Some magic back play, the lines in midfield were amazing; they found space against a really good Crusaders defence. Looked creative and hard working, they have a bright future.

It was a cracking game of rugby, not expansive, but really tasty to watch. As always, fine margins; the scoreline most certainly did not reflect the intensity or evenness of the game. All the one eyed cantabs crowing about 'look at the scoreboard' are not showing an ounce of respect to a good opponent. By that logic, 2007 France and 2017 Lions were the better side, and deserved everything they got.

While another title is impressive, the Canterbury machine may be creaking at the edges a bit. Losing the Mitre 10 final last year to a bunch of colts, losing away to the Tahs, drawing at home against that Saffer side, and then looking vulnerable through the playoffs ... best tight five in the comp by a mile, but outside that it's been looking a bit more average. Well done and all that, but there's some future bits that are worth watching

Will be interesting to see how they cope with losing Franks, Whitelock, Todd up front next season. That's a hell of a lot of talent to replace in short order... will keep Razor busy I'm sure.