@ACT-Crusader said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@sparky said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Too obvious

Not trolling Marshall made a similar point in terms of the stats

But sadly the game is not played on paper

Crusaders outside of some pressure in 50th minute did not threaten to score a try

Crusaders deserved to win as they were more efficient but Jaguares were IMO the better team

But that counts for little

Stats don’t win matches. Defence does. Marshall doing his best unbiased commentary.

Other than that period in the first half where the Jags were attacking red hot and playing extremely flat, I thought the tactics of the Jags changed for the worst.

The Jags 1st 5 started standing extremely deep. The forwards weren’t as quick to their spots in attack. All that possession and not scoring does take its toll.

Indeed

Diaz Bonilla got worse as the match wore on & that killed the Jaguares game plan- they totally rely on #10 to be flat and provide options for ball runners

Kicking from 9 is a better strategy

Fair play to the Jaguares ... tough travel across for the game, and I suspect there may not have been another team in the comp that would have beaten them tonight. If they hold on to most players for next year, they will be very tough to beat. Certainly a long way from where they started.

But you can't score 3 points in a final an expect to win anything. One bombed try, and two close chances don't count for much, when I think the Saders let themselves down a couple of times too. If everybody had taken 80% of their chances, the score would have been something like 30-18.

But they didn't, and hence scoreboard pressure meant the Saders never really had to take risks, whilst the Jaguares did. And that ... is final's rugby.

They'll be better for it next year.

And to be fair, I think Hansen would take a half-pie All Blacks squad to Buenos Aires at his peril, but that doesn’t close the gap between the two teams in Christchurch tonight.

good game i thought, and a fair bit closer than the scoreboard indicates.

jags blew a couple of tries they really should have scored which would have made it a different game - looked a bit like the old 'gotta lose a final to win one' cliche, pushing it a bit much in the big game. well played though, some gun players and super committed, and the better lineout which is no mean feat against the crusaders. diaz bonilla made some dodgy decisions, which he did against the brumbies too - put nico sanchez in there and that's a very dangerous group of players for the WC.

for the saders, looked like moody popped them in the scrum a few times, good to see. taylor a bit dicey at lineout, and franks is level-pegging with other options now i reckon. whitelock was good, and read too. todd the pick of them, very strong game.
there was a time when i thought drummond should have been the starting halfback with hall on the bench. that feels hard to believe now, hall is miles better these days and they subbed him too early. drummond was a prime target for a charge-down every time he kicked. mo'unga good, and kicked the big game kicks. goodhue excellent defensive workrate, ennor good ball in hand, no issues on defence but his hands let him down a couple of times, which is unusual for him. bit disappointed in both wingers turning in on defence to make 2 on 1 tackles and leaving their outside man unmarked - if you're going to do that, you want to be damn sure you stop the offload.

jaco was generally good, but inconsistent with his application of knock-on advantage which shitted me a bit. sometimes it's just change of possession and if you lose it it's advantage over, sometimes change of possession, lose it, and he comes back for the advantage.

@Canes4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

The final was last week. Jaguares never had a chance. Well done on the 10th Crusaders. Hopefully a new winner next year.

Disagree. Jaguares were in that for 60+ minutes and with a liitle more composure they might have won it. Semi final was a greatgame and worthy of a final, but the final was a great game too.

@MajorRage said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Fair play to the Jaguares ... tough travel across for the game, and I suspect there may not have been another team in the comp that would have beaten them tonight. If they hold on to most players for next year, they will be very tough to beat. Certainly a long way from where they started.

But you can't score 3 points in a final an expect to win anything. One bombed try, and two close chances don't count for much, when I think the Saders let themselves down a couple of times too. If everybody had taken 80% of their chances, the score would have been something like 30-18.

But they didn't, and hence scoreboard pressure meant the Saders never really had to take risks, whilst the Jaguares did. And that ... is final's rugby.

They'll be better for it next year.

Jaguares will be around for a while They benefit from clear pathways with a team playing CC rugby in SA & U20 players emerging at a steady rate

Matera will be badly missed Matera is the best #6 in World Rugby and it;s not really close

Lavinnini is replaceable Very good player but his hands are fecking awful

Moreover with a round robin format from 2021 onwards this will suit Jaguares well They tour well + win games in AUS & NZ

SA teams can't win in NZ & AUS AUS teams will remain rubbish

Even the NZ teams will be weakened

Blues will remain a show Highlanders will revert back to being bottom feeders

Canes will be screwed when Barrett Brothers likely leave

@Cyclops said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Canes4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

The final was last week. Jaguares never had a chance. Well done on the 10th Crusaders. Hopefully a new winner next year.

Disagree. Jaguares were in that for 60+ minutes and with a liitle more composure they might have won it. Semi final was a greatgame and worthy of a final, but the final was a great game too.

Yep

Too many folks are being box score scouts and not looking at the in game dynamics

Finals Footy as Quesada noted is a game of few chances

Saders took the few chances they had and deservedly won

Jaguares wee extremely careless/selfish and lost their shape Hence deserved to lose despite in large parts being the better team

Oh well onto the World Cup with some friendlies/trial matches for Los Pumas in TRC along the way

@Jaguares4real Sorry can you explain at what points you thought they were the better team?

Because to me they looked well beaten in all aspects of the game across the park and throughout out all 80 minutes in a game of finals football in slippery conditions.

They went backwards in possession and coughed the ball up at crucial times, but choked their opportunities, they had a lot of help from the ref in advantage and with "flat" passing and didn't have the experience to make it count, and lost the kicking duels and importantly the scoreboard.

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@MajorRage said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Fair play to the Jaguares ... tough travel across for the game, and I suspect there may not have been another team in the comp that would have beaten them tonight. If they hold on to most players for next year, they will be very tough to beat. Certainly a long way from where they started.

But you can't score 3 points in a final an expect to win anything. One bombed try, and two close chances don't count for much, when I think the Saders let themselves down a couple of times too. If everybody had taken 80% of their chances, the score would have been something like 30-18.

But they didn't, and hence scoreboard pressure meant the Saders never really had to take risks, whilst the Jaguares did. And that ... is final's rugby.

They'll be better for it next year.

Jaguares will be around for a while They benefit from clear pathways with a team playing CC rugby in SA & U20 players emerging at a steady rate

Matera will be badly missed Matera is the best #6 in World Rugby and it;s not really close

Lavinnini is replaceable Very good player but his hands are fecking awful

Moreover with a round robin format from 2021 onwards this will suit Jaguares well They tour well + win games in AUS & NZ

SA teams can't win in NZ & AUS AUS teams will remain rubbish

Even the NZ teams will be weakened

Blues will remain a show Highlanders will revert back to being bottom feeders

Canes will be screwed when Barrett Brothers likely leave

I understand, you're hurting.
Your team was shown to not be good enough.
Better luck next year.

It ain't over until Razor dances...

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@MajorRage said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Fair play to the Jaguares ... tough travel across for the game, and I suspect there may not have been another team in the comp that would have beaten them tonight. If they hold on to most players for next year, they will be very tough to beat. Certainly a long way from where they started.

But you can't score 3 points in a final an expect to win anything. One bombed try, and two close chances don't count for much, when I think the Saders let themselves down a couple of times too. If everybody had taken 80% of their chances, the score would have been something like 30-18.

But they didn't, and hence scoreboard pressure meant the Saders never really had to take risks, whilst the Jaguares did. And that ... is final's rugby.

They'll be better for it next year.

Jaguares will be around for a while They benefit from clear pathways with a team playing CC rugby in SA & U20 players emerging at a steady rate

Matera will be badly missed Matera is the best #6 in World Rugby and it;s not really close

Lavinnini is replaceable Very good player but his hands are fecking awful

Moreover with a round robin format from 2021 onwards this will suit Jaguares well They tour well + win games in AUS & NZ

SA teams can't win in NZ & AUS AUS teams will remain rubbish

Even the NZ teams will be weakened

Blues will remain a show Highlanders will revert back to being bottom feeders

Canes will be screwed when Barrett Brothers likely leave

Yeah whatever, keep up your morale however you fancy.
Simple fact NZ teams win most SR titles, it's not going to change

You should be proud of what the Jags achieved, not bragging about things that they have not

Great atmosphere at the game. Argie fans added a lot.

First 20 minutes I was nervous, rush defense had us rattled.

2 best teams made the final. Roll on next year

@ACT-Crusader said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

I’m getting a little nervous...about the Warriors chances against the Knights...

Nerves justified. Far out they test the ticker....

The only game I was nervous about tonight

A fair bit of disrespect shown there during the presentation, champagne bottles popped well before the Crusaders tankard presentation had even started...

@Machpants said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@MajorRage said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Fair play to the Jaguares ... tough travel across for the game, and I suspect there may not have been another team in the comp that would have beaten them tonight. If they hold on to most players for next year, they will be very tough to beat. Certainly a long way from where they started.

But you can't score 3 points in a final an expect to win anything. One bombed try, and two close chances don't count for much, when I think the Saders let themselves down a couple of times too. If everybody had taken 80% of their chances, the score would have been something like 30-18.

But they didn't, and hence scoreboard pressure meant the Saders never really had to take risks, whilst the Jaguares did. And that ... is final's rugby.

They'll be better for it next year.

Jaguares will be around for a while They benefit from clear pathways with a team playing CC rugby in SA & U20 players emerging at a steady rate

Matera will be badly missed Matera is the best #6 in World Rugby and it;s not really close

Lavinnini is replaceable Very good player but his hands are fecking awful

Moreover with a round robin format from 2021 onwards this will suit Jaguares well They tour well + win games in AUS & NZ

SA teams can't win in NZ & AUS AUS teams will remain rubbish

Even the NZ teams will be weakened

Blues will remain a show Highlanders will revert back to being bottom feeders

Canes will be screwed when Barrett Brothers likely leave

Yeah whatever, keep up your morale however you fancy.
Simple fact NZ teams win most SR titles, it's not going to change

You should be proud of what the Jags achieved, not bragging about things that they have not

You've misunderstood my point

Crusaders set the standard in Super Rugby They'll remain the preeminent force & the team to beat in SR

Chiefs will be dangerous with Gatland back & have the game to beat Jaguares

Hurricanes will have a better squad in 2020 but without Barrett bros they're fucked

@Jaguares4real Maybe. My point is, NZ teams actually play rugby and do well, even when t looks like they are fooked. I tell you what, next season, a depleted NZ SR team will do well. Cos we have depth and that's what we do. Saying crap like 'canes without barretts are rubbish' is dumb shiite, we'll still do well - canes will still be up there next year, baretts or no. Team, not individuals.

@Machpants

I'm proud of the Jaguares season but I'm not one to settle for "well done pat yourself on the back"

That kind of mentality disgusts me

Los Pumas will use the Jaguares success as a springboard for the RWC campaign

TRC friendlies will serve as trials for those aspiring to make RWC squad

Future is bright in ARG rugby

@Machpants said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real Maybe. My point is, NZ teams actually play rugby and do well, even when t looks like they are fooked. I tell you what, next season, a depleted NZ SR team will do well. Cos we have depth and that's what we do. Saying crap like 'canes without barretts are rubbish' is dumb shiite, we'll still do well - canes will still be up there next year, baretts or no. Team, not individuals.

Disagree

Hurricanes rely on their star players to deliver: Barrett brothers Laumape Savea Coles & TJP

Without a few of them they'll be a much diminished team

Good enough to make playoffs but not a contender to win it all IMO

Crusaders have strength in numbers & strength in depth

That's the greatness of the Crusaders summarised in one sentecne

Hooray! We win!

@Steven-Harris said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Why replace Hall..?hes been outstanding..!

Substitution by rote

@akan004 said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Strange decision to go for three .

Nup. Test match intensity. Gift 3. Good call.

The kick from 45m on the angle I thought was ambitious and they should have plugged the corner. But test match intensity ...

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

second one of those off-loads of Materas that looks to have gone forward out of hand

The one for the bombed try by Moroni looked ... err .. . borderline

@No-Quarter said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Should have been a penalty for holding on. Marshall is talking shit.

No!? Really?

@Yeetyaah said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

What a boring game and comp. Saders win again. Maybe time to spread the talent.

Bolded text: I really enjoyed it.

Not bolded bit: there's plenty of talent elsewhere. Just got to develop themselves better.

@Damo said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

They're up by 16 points. Why are they just running the clock down? Seems very negative to me.

It's winning

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Crusaders were functional and did enough to win & were clinical when they got a chance

Somewhat self contradictory post.

Perhaps understandable in the circumstances

@Donsteppa said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

“The better team” never loses a game 19 - 3.

My immediate reaction was very similar.

My thoughts were "19-3 says they weren't".

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Donsteppa said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

“The better team” never loses a game 19 - 3.

they do when they leave at least 15 points on the table and gift a try through a winger having a brain fart

That makes them a poor team.

@booboo said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Crusaders were functional and did enough to win & were clinical when they got a chance

Somewhat self contradictory post.

Perhaps understandable in the circumstances

Two things can be right at the same time Doesn't have to a binary choice

Crusaders deserved to win but Jaguares were the better team

Rarely happens but then I'm not a box score scout who just looks at the final whistle score

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@booboo said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Crusaders were functional and did enough to win & were clinical when they got a chance

Somewhat self contradictory post.

Perhaps understandable in the circumstances

Two things can be right at the same time Doesn't have to a binary choice

Crusaders deserved to win but Jaguares were the better team

Rarely happens but then I'm not a box score scout who just looks at the final whistle score

Give it a rest, seriously.

Crusaders name on the trophy, 19-3, they were the better team, no question. Your little moral we were the better team crap counts for zilch. Nothing. Nada.

And it’s bollocks. 19-3 is one sided.

You won’t give a shit but I would have supported the Jaguares today if not for you. I doubt I’m alone.

@MajorRage

I'm heartbroken that a random dude would have supported the Jaguares if not for the horrible crime of me Supporting the Jaguares vociferously

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@MajorRage

I'm heartbroken that a random dude would have supported the Jaguares if not for the horrible crime of me Supporting the Jaguares vociferously

Supporting?

I hope the Jags play better in two weeks or the Weakened ABs will destroy them.

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@booboo said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Crusaders were functional and did enough to win & were clinical when they got a chance

Somewhat self contradictory post.

Perhaps understandable in the circumstances

Two things can be right at the same time Doesn't have to a binary choice

True. But not when one of them is wrong.

Hairies may had some better stats with ball in hand, but how good were Saders on D?

Some serious Kyle Gass-Jack Black action going on there.

Out-scrummed, out box-kicked, out-defended, out-tactic-ed, out scored their opposition.

Better team won comfortably.

Not to mention the whole sliding doors if they get one of their scores they left out there...

Just further on one (well two) of my points above, how impressive was the leadership to change up the tactics when Plan A wasn't working?

Not easy to abandon the game plan and switch mentality.

@MajorRage said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

I would have supported the Jaguares today if not for you. I doubt I’m alone.

I would’ve supported the Jags if they were playing an Aussie team or South African side or the Chiefs

@MajorRage go a bit easy on @Jaguares4real buddy. Moral victories are what you take when you can’t have real ones

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@booboo said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Crusaders were functional and did enough to win & were clinical when they got a chance

Somewhat self contradictory post.

Perhaps understandable in the circumstances

Two things can be right at the same time Doesn't have to a binary choice

Crusaders deserved to win but Jaguares were the better team

Rarely happens but then I'm not a box score scout who just looks at the final whistle score

This is great stuff. Means the Canes were the better team last weekend. Will there be a parade down Lambton Quay ? Hope so.