@Billy-Webb said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@Jet
I'm a decade and a half ahead of you in terms of vintage. For whatever that is worth?

I appreciate the frustration, and the lengthy post and suggestions.
Rugby has always had this interpretation challenge. It's a ridiculously technical book of laws. And WR does seem to go out of its way to tinker endlessly with the laws which only further complicates matters.

My point being refs try their best with the rules they have at hand. Sometimes they manage it better than other days.
These last 2 games today, I think they did fine.

Hard disagree for me.

Im genuinely easily pleased.

I dont like coming on the internet whinging every week.

You can tell a lot of people are miffed with it, Tuirinui today saying "I like to watch rugby being played" sarcastically.

Prof on the kick offs and kick ons podcast last week "jeez that ref loved a whistle didnt he" regarding Piardi.

The ref the same guy from Bledisloe 1 last week?

Interesting we had NH refs several times in TRC

@NTA said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

The ref the same guy from Bledisloe 1 last week?

Interesting we had NH refs several times in TRC

Yeah it was him. Piardi.

Not a vintage bunch on the circuit at the moment.

Himself, Carley and that Wifi code from Georgia are up in the vanguard of ineptitude.

Whatever happened to Luke Pearce at international level? I always thought he was the best of the English refs. I don’t rate either Carley or Dickson that highly, but Carley was ok today in fairness. Some will say he was pedantic with the whistle, but the players should bear the brunt of that criticism.

Piardi was consistent in letting everything go like last week. And he can’t ref a scrum

@Jet said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Etzebeth stayed down until TMO came in.

Springboks know exactly what they are doing in that regard. Best in the business.

In fairness, if the officiating team are average you have to paint a picture

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@sparky said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@ExiledHalfback said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

I think France will really test this Boks side

France will have a rock solid scrum, an excellent back row, one of the great players of all time at Half Back and pace to burn out wide.

I rate the South African lineout and kicking game more.

But it will be one hell of a Test match.

I think DuPont is out. On today’s performance, France will win.
DuPont is over hyped though

A very good player but have been genuinely shocked at how much he is spoken about. There’s two things I like about his game - he’s probably the best at clearing messy ball because of his low centre of gravity and strength, and his kicking - but everything else isn’t anything better than some of the other 9s running around.

There were a few really positive things the Pumas did that troubled the Boks last night. They were able to create number mismatches against the rush defence and some of their forwards really muscled up on the carry close in.

@stodders said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Whatever happened to Luke Pearce at international level? I always thought he was the best of the English refs. I don’t rate either Carley or Dickson that highly, but Carley was ok today in fairness. Some will say he was pedantic with the whistle, but the players should bear the brunt of that criticism.

Piardi was consistent in letting everything go like last week. And he can’t ref a scrum

I'll concede Carley was mostly consistent and I didn't see a lot of howlers from him.

But he seemed to be constantly looking to blow the we whistle and dramatically jump in waving his hands. Made it a poor spectacle.

Haven't seen the Twickers test.

@stodders Plus they let it run for 60-90 seconds sometimes but the clock doesn't go back

@Jet said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

For the last 5 or 6 years, SA have had a pattern of just infringing and giving away immediate penalties once the 22 is breached to slow momentum. It's a very intentional part of their defense, imo.

Haha
agree with that 100%
they do it so well too
obviously they do plan for it . . . and maybe even train for it . . .

Tough win by the Springboks . Credit to the Pumas, they played much better. The younger Springboks now know how to play in a final and to win it. The Wellington win was the cherry.

Sacha Feinberg is the new star of the game. A future star has made his debut at Twickenham : Tomas Rapetti, the 20 y.o. Argies THP who came off the bench during the second spell. He's a absolute beast, just ask Malcom Marx who was bumped off while trying to tackle him. He was playing during the June U20 World Cup where he looked like a man among boys.

@cgrant said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Sacha Feinberg is the new star of the game. A future star has made his debut at Twickenham : Tomas Rapetti, the 20 y.o. Argies THP who came off the bench during the second spell. He's an absolute beast, just ask Malcom Marx who was bumped off while trying to tackle him. He was playing during the June U20 World Cup where he looked like a man among boys.

Very impressed by the young fella

@MiketheSnow said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@cgrant said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Sacha Feinberg is the new star of the game. A future star has made his debut at Twickenham : Tomas Rapetti, the 20 y.o. Argies THP who came off the bench during the second spell. He's an absolute beast, just ask Malcom Marx who was bumped off while trying to tackle him. He was playing during the June U20 World Cup where he looked like a man among boys.

Very impressed by the young fella

If you're referring to Tomas Rapetti, I'm in complete agreement.
He already looked completely at home in International Rugby, and the Bok scrum dominance waned markedly with his introduction.
At 20, he is an infant in prop terms. Imagine how good he will be with a few years experience under the belt!

He has been signed by Toulouse where he will learn his trade. Good school !

@Billy-Webb Jan Hendrik Wessels isn't a good measure for any TH. Now it was Ox I will agree.

@OomPB If Wessels started the Boks would be on the receiving end of a few penalties. Coming on after the starters have established the advantage in the ref's eyes means he's gotten away with a lot.

@OomPB said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@Billy-Webb Jan Hendrik Wessels isn't a good measure for any TH. Now it was Ox I will agree.

I agree with you - up to a point Oom. Wessels hasn't impressed me (yet).
But the reality is he has been picked as a Bok, so he can't be all that bad? (Despite my misgivings).
And he did get owned by Rapetti in the scrums a good few times.

Bit annoying the Argies gave up home advantage to play at Twickenham, which almost gave the boks another home match if you look at the make up of the crowd.

@DaGrubster said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Bit annoying the Argies gave up home advantage to play at Twickenham, which almost gave the boks another home match if you look at the make up of the crowd.

@MiketheSnow said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@DaGrubster said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Bit annoying the Argies gave up home advantage to play at Twickenham, which almost gave the boks another home match if you look at the make up of the crowd.

View embedded content

Oh i know the reasons. Still annoying that it gave the boks an easier match than flying to argentina in front of an Argentinean crowd.

I can see that they did it for player welfare as most argies will be heading back to Europe to their clubs.

Easier flight to London and then a short one as opposed to sa to BA, Ba to London.

Still, TRC has a huge asterisk for me due to the boks not having had to play their full compliment of away matches

@DaGrubster *****

@DaGrubster said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@MiketheSnow said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@DaGrubster said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Bit annoying the Argies gave up home advantage to play at Twickenham, which almost gave the boks another home match if you look at the make up of the crowd.

View embedded content

Oh i know the reasons. Still annoying that it gave the boks an easier match than flying to argentina in front of an Argentinean crowd.

I can see that they did it for player welfare as most argies will be heading back to Europe to their clubs.

Easier flight to London and then a short one as opposed to sa to BA, Ba to London.

Still, TRC has a huge asterisk for me due to the boks not having had to play their full compliment of away matches

There were probably more AB fans in Perth than Australian. Asterisk my ass.

@W32 are you disputing that teams have better home records than away?

@No-Quarter said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@W32 are you disputing that teams have better home records than away?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make since the boks did not play this game at home.

@W32 are you being obtuse lol, Argentina have a much better record at home, ergo not having to play them in front of their home crowd benefits SA. Don't worry, I still think SA were the best team and deserved to win the RC, but history clearly shows that final game would have been tougher if played in Argentina.

@No-Quarter said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@W32 are you being obtuse lol, Argentina have a much better record at home, ergo not having to play them in front of their home crowd benefits SA. Don't worry, I still think SA were the best team and deserved to win the RC, but history clearly shows that final game would have been tougher if played in Argentina.

How do you figure the ABs winning there and then losing at home? The boks managed to beat them (Argentina) even though they played pretty badly. It used to be said on these forums that the boks would never win a WC away from home, and yet here we are with three more . Nowadays it’s more about which team shows up than home advantage. Especially true for this rugby championship

A quick glance shows:

Argentina vs SA in Argentina
Played 20, won 3, drawn 1, lost 16.

Argentina vs SA in SA
Played 20, won 1, lost 19

These stats will be the same for ALL teams, even more extreme when it comes to the Tier 1 nations who are very hard to beat at home, but even with Argentina only having 4 wins and a draw in their history against SA, 4 of those 5 matches were in Argentina.

This is such a silly argument, and I am quite taken aback that you think home ground advantage doesn't count for anything. It does, across all sports, not just rugby. Winning in the enemies back yard is what it's all about.

@No-Quarter said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

A quick glance shows:

Argentina vs SA in Argentina
Played 20, won 3, drawn 1, lost 16.

Argentina vs SA in SA
Played 20, won 1, lost 19

These stats will be the same for ALL teams, even more extreme when it comes to the Tier 1 nations who are very hard to beat at home, but even with Argentina only having 4 wins and a draw in their history against SA, 4 of those 5 matches were in Argentina.

This is such a silly argument, and I am quite taken aback that you think home ground advantage doesn't count for anything. It does, across all sports, not just rugby. Winning in the enemies back yard is what it's all about.

It’s about as silly an argument as saying the boks won the RC with a caveat..

Well the caveat is that they didn't have to play two games in Argentina, they got to play one of those on neutral soil.

For the ABs upcoming northern tour, if they win the grand slam, they will have the same caveat - that they didn't have to play Ireland in Ireland which makes it a bit easier for them.

There is one team of which it doesn't matter whether they play at home or away.
And we know which one that is.

I didn't check; but I think they have a winning record against everyone away, except one team.

And they'd have a winning record against that particular team also, if they hadn't had to put up with dog cheat home referees for a century or so.

The Wellington spanking have more value then any TRC or WC title. Its up there.

@mohikamo said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

There is one team of which it doesn't matter whether they play at home or away.
And we know which one that is.

I didn't check; but I think they have a winning record against everyone away, except one team.

And they'd have a winning record against that particular team also, if they hadn't had to put up with dog cheat home referees for a century or so.

It’s a tough world mate. I heard that nzedders are drinking tea out of glasses because all the cups are in South Africa… is that true?

@W32 said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@mohikamo said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

There is one team of which it doesn't matter whether they play at home or away.
And we know which one that is.

I didn't check; but I think they have a winning record against everyone away, except one team.

And they'd have a winning record against that particular team also, if they hadn't had to put up with dog cheat home referees for a century or so.

It’s a tough world mate. I heard that nzedders are drinking tea out of glasses because all the cups are in South Africa… is that true?

Besides, most of those recent wins that the AB’s had over the bokke were due to their Australian cousins who supplied the refs for the tri nations tests in Australasia and South Africa. Not to mention the unfair travel schedule that had the South Africans living out of their suitcases for months

@OomPB said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

The Wellington spanking have more value then any TRC or WC title. Its up there.

Don't indulge in too much alliteration!

@OomPB Agreed, but only because of all the asterisks next to our WCs, RCs, Qatar Airways Cups, series wins, hell any time we’ve beaten them.

Very grateful to the fern, ol mate Laurie etc for pulling the veil from our pig ignorant African eyes.

In fact Oom, I feel a little guilty because I still get a thrill thinking back to screaming myself hoarse in a tiny pub inmiddleofblerrienowherefontein as Jarpie manhandled Jonah over the touchline or how good it felt watching Fransie nail that 55 yarder on a cold night in Paris so the engraver could get to work and basically all of the the last seven years.

But I think it’s natural to sometimes forget that our victories are, by inviolable natural law, illegitimate. Of course, in each specific case we cannot know why at the time. Call it Schrödingers’ All Blacks - the magnitude and reasons for the forces of darkness’ loss cannot be measured at the same time.

It’s only much, much later when their coaches and players have had some time to come up with their best reasons that we can turn to the fern’s collective analysis, conclusions and insight and truly understand how hollow our triumphs and how foolish our deep satisfaction, joy and pride in the boks’ performance.

Indeed @smuts. That we should be so arrogant to think that there might be some good players, coaches and refs that have come out of South Africa.

Those kiwis are so fucking naïve!
How many World Championships have they fucked up by runnin out onto the field and thinking they just have to play some actual rugby.
You’d think they’d have learnt by now.
I mean those ferners are chattering about who the wingers should be FFS.

The saffers know they just need 8 forwards, plus 8 more on the bench to go out and bash the crap out of the fuckers.
None of that actual play rugby nonsense.
Less of that the better.
So long as Rassie doesn't have any thoughts of coming up with anything more sophisticated, the saffers will be A-OK.

@mohikamo said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Those kiwis are so fucking naïve!
How many World Championships have they fucked up by runnin out onto the field and thinking they just have to play some actual rugby.
You’d think they’d have learnt by now.
I mean those ferners are chattering about who the wingers should be FFS.

The saffers know they just need 8 forwards, plus 8 more on the bench to go out and bash the crap out of the fuckers.
None of that actual play rugby nonsense.
Less of that the better.
So long as Rassie doesn't have any thoughts of coming up with anything more sophisticated, the saffers will be A-OK.

What the saffers do is rugby.

@Smuts we are spoiled , Boet spoiled. I am old school and have big respect for the All Blacks. Beating them in NZ dont come often and is very special. Smashing them in NZ is a cherry.