Sunday morning rugby conversations starting with: “Well, how about those Black Ferns, eh?”
Razor:
"Look, you just get extremely disappointed because you put so much work ethic into the team, culturally, and you set yourselves up around being able to dig in and show grit. And then that happens," Robertson said.
Maybe a little less trying to get guys up to represent their country and a little more coaching them to actually perform?
Source:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
So far we've had the 2nd worst defence in the comp.
The defensive workrate of our primary 7 leads a lot to be desired.
Completed Tackles per 80 Minutes
17.26 Parker
14.31 Lio Willie
13.55 Kirifi
12.88 Finau
11.05 Sititi
10.43 Vaa'i
10.2 SaveaLowest defensive workrate of the loose forwards.
Also Tupou Vaa'i's tackle success this season is 77% which is shocking for a loose forward/lock even at NPC level.
I dont understand why Lio Willie wasn't fully selected in the squad to start with and when he did play well vs France why he didnt make the squad for The Rugby Championship. Instead foodbill Jacobson takes up a spot whilst Razor rotates 8 between Savea, Parker and Sititi
I understand he's a tad small in an ideal world but in terms of what we have I thought he got shafted.
I didn't watch yesterday, so knowing the score and reading the thread I actually expected much worse.
I thought at half time both coaches would have been very happy. We were by far the better team, imposed ourselves and were in front. They had been outplayed but were close.
Huge turning point in that first half was we have an attacking lineout off that awesome BB kick, they have backs down all over the place. Who ever our retard of a lineout caller is, calls an overly complicated lineout, the ref lets thrm close the gap an upset our pod, turnover followed by THAT DMac chip kick. Chance to establish a big lead gone in like 30 seconds.
2nd half again we were actually really good for 29 minutes. Bok try was brilliant off that scrum, but we're in touch. Then two things happen at the same time. We sub a midfielder on our line, and once again our lineout call is idiotic. Try.
The next 4 minutes is an absolute horror show. 2 will Jordan errors, a shocker of a BB kick. Just low IQ rugby. And it never recovers.
South Africa though, wow. That 2nd half was perfect. Fast, accurate and brutal. What should concern everyone in NZ is i do not believe this AB team has that level of rugby in them. Maybe only France do TBH.
Absolute horror show last quarter for us. Absolutely sublime for South Africa. Well done to them I'm very fucking impressed.
@game_film Not sure Sotutu is the answer
Player wise.
I thought DMac was really good except for that one fucking kick.
Will Jordan had a horror show. His only notable moments were awful errors
Carter did what he is supposed to.
Proctor has been given a real shot at centre but is not improving. Get rid.
Jordie was pretty good.
BB wasn't the problem today. But his errors were really fucking bad.
Christie is too slow.
Wallace Sititi got heaps of shit but watching it he was literally the only loose forward doing anything. When he went off we had no one cleaning anything up.
Savea? Not a 7. Two steals don't make up for 80 minutes of shit. And that chip kick. And that lineout transition to no one.
Did Parker even play?
Vaai some good, lots bad, no physical presence when we needed it.
Barrett was shit.
Front row got worked.
Off the bench QT did nothing good. Love a horror show. Kirifi is useless. Holland good except for the snyman miss. Oooof the hooker. Williams exposed.on D.
Huse changes needed so watch a winger get dropped (and it will be the wrong one)
On watching the replay we ran a complete different game plan this week, we limited box kicks and up n unders, something we haven't played much at this year.
We went side to side which worked until the 60th minute, we failed to execute twice in the 22 where we could have scored.
Our kicks we're from our 22, long range. The offensive kicks we're grubbers, chips, crossfield etc, this is 50/50, didn't work at all when tried.
We didn't defuse the Springbok kicking game, they owned it and it worked this week.
The last 20 mins, When Taukei'aho went off, the line out collapsed on attack, Springboks captalized several times. We subbed Parker, Sititi and the replacements weren't covering where they were.
We need our injured players back, as after that we are not up to standard.
We also need the fringe squad playing to keep up there game, bring the AB XV to the same country and have those 10 or so extras start for them nearby somewhere.
If we are going to play the same team roughly 6 out of 7 games, and not rotate to build depth, they need to be playing proper rugby.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Player wise.
Proctor has been given a real shot at centre but is not improving. Get rid.
Wallace Sititi got heaps of shit but watching it he was literally the only loose forward doing anything. When he went off we had no one cleaning anything up.
Vaai some good, lots bad, no physical presence when we needed it.
Barrett was shit.
My random thoughts (all of which I qualify with "but alcohol may have affected my judgement and memory"):
- Thought Proctor had his best game in black. Not a massively high bar, but saw the glimmerings of promise.
- Thought Sititi was pretty good myself.
- Also thought Vaa'i was OK
- He's got to find the courage to drop Barrett
I agree with your comment about that attacking lineout just before half time.
That was begging for a standard throw to 2 or 4 and a maul.
I didn't notice the backs down, but maybe ABs did which tempted them in to the high risk option.
Sad but we're a paper tiger now. Interesting that our own decline mirrors (at least in my view) the decline of the game as any type of spectacle that's worth watching.
@SammyC said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Also Tupou Vaa'i's tackle success this season is 77% which is shocking for a loose forward/lock even at NPC level.
All that laughing and clapping looks pretty dumb when you top the missed tackles stat 3 matches in a row
That guy is an idiot. Must be someone better
Our scrum only improved when Fabian Holland came on. Same as what happened in Eden Park. The referee was very focused on ruling on what was presented to him and he constantly saw our scrum going backwards in for the majority of 2 tests so he was going to reward this. Vaai and Barret not a powerful enough pairing in the engine room.
Just like not picking Caleb Clarke on the wing when we got massacred in the air was stupid so was not picking our most powerful lock when they had worked over our scrum.
@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Our scrum only improved when Fabian Holland came on. Same as what happened in Eden Park. The referee was very focused on ruling on what was presented to him and he constantly saw our scrum going backwards in for the majority of 2 tests so he was going to reward this. Vaai and Barret not a powerful enough pairing in the engine room.
Just like not picking Caleb Clarke on the wing when we got massacred in the air was stupid so was not picking our most powerful lock when they had worked over our scrum.
@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Our scrum only improved when Fabian Holland came on. Same as what happened in Eden Park. The referee was very focused on ruling on what was presented to him and he constantly saw our scrum going backwards in for the majority of 2 tests so he was going to reward this. Vaai and Barret not a powerful enough pairing in the engine room.
Just like not picking Caleb Clarke on the wing when we got massacred in the air was stupid so was not picking our most powerful lock when they had worked over our scrum.
@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Our scrum only improved when Fabian Holland came on. Same as what happened in Eden Park. The referee was very focused on ruling on what was presented to him and he constantly saw our scrum going backwards in for the majority of 2 tests so he was going to reward this. Vaai and Barret not a powerful enough pairing in the engine room.
Just like not picking Caleb Clarke on the wing when we got massacred in the air was stupid so was not picking our most powerful lock when they had worked over our scrum.
holland at least one scrum packed at blindside
@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Are their any wingers or fullbacks in NZ who are good under the high ball other than Caleb Clarke? We used to have Corey Jane, Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, Richard Kahui.
We also used to have backs who could consistently kick well......
@mariner4life Excellent analysis.
@kidcalder said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@game_film Not sure Sotutu is the answer
One player isn't the answer. Our inability to clinically perform fundamentals such as kick receptions, line outs and scrums seems to be increasingly apparent as games go on. Sometimes we scrape home, this time we got pumped. Fault lies with the everyone from the coaches to the players. There are some fundamental problems in how we are approaching the game at the moment. And we have a coach who is impeding the progress of the whole group because of his selections
I find ruck arrival to be the most useless stat.
But it does seem to tie to the eye test on Parker.
@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Are their any wingers or fullbacks in NZ who are good under the high ball other than Caleb Clarke? We used to have Corey Jane, Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, Richard Kahui.
He wasn’t even a winger which makes the current guys efforts look even worse
Extremely low running metres from the back three. They have the advantage of returning kicks so pick up easy metres normally
I know this has been brought up with loosies in the past but Parker was parked out wide near or on the wing (no pun intended) - presumably by design whereas last week he was playing in the middle of the field.
We gave their back 3 yards after the catch, a luxury ours were not afforded.
Considering the width we played with, those numbers are testament to the excellent SA scramble to ot allow the break outs
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I know this has been brought up with loosies in the past but Parker was parked out wide near or on the wing (no pun intended) - presumably by design whereas last week he was playing in the middle of the field.
Yeah, on attack we had Sititi on one side and savea/carter on the other, because thats where the ball was going, the middle was left to the tighties who we bypassed a lot anyway. EdG with no runs but a few passes.
Their kicks seemed much higher than ours, and positioned to allow their chasers ample chance to compete. By comparison, they seemed to be able to field our kicks under little to no pressure most of the time
Just because the second half was worse and we took a halftime lead doesn't mean the first half was very good.
The signs were all there in the first half
First half territory stats: Boks 75% ABs 25%
Boks had 2 first half tries that we escaped from - the halfback knock on and the Jordie try saver.
We were playing with fire in the first half.
Some of our wide play looked great. I don't really remember us taking the ball up the guts much?
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Our ten got to almost as many rucks as our blindside. Haha
What did they do when they got there? Who was playing halfback whilst others were securing/ disrupting ball?
@KiwiMurph we probably expected to run them off thier feet, unfortunately the opposite happened and we reverted to kick and hope.
We get into games of force back so often, and we lose so often, whether from metres to a lineout or they move us about enough after several kicks, they pick thier moment to run it they make big metres.
Our kicking game, either defensively or as an attacking platform (as so many do much better) is so poor at the moment, it is embarrassing really, we have learnt nothing in the past 5 or 6 years, in fact, as we hold aging players, it is getting worse.
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@game_film Not sure Sotutu is the answer
One player isn't the answer. Our inability to clinically perform fundamentals such as kick receptions, line outs and scrums seems to be increasingly apparent as games go on. Sometimes we scrape home, this time we got pumped. Fault lies with the everyone from the coaches to the players. There are some fundamental problems in how we are approaching the game at the moment. And we have a coach who is impeding the progress of the whole group because of his selections
I think we have seen the importance of having quality players across your whole 23. Or at the minimum players who can perform their core role and let others shine..
Seriously how does someone like Brodie McCallister get selected for the All Blacks with problematic lineout throwing? Why was this not noted after his debut or picked up at practice this week? It is like a time warp back to Anton Oliver where core roles are not a big deal if you are a good bloke and rugged team man.
@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Seriously how does someone like Brodie McCallister get selected for the All Blacks with problematic lineout throwing?
And George Bell. Both selections lie at the feet of Ryan.
@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Second half slumps continue. The days of the ABs running teams down in the last 20 are done. The supposedly “bigger” Boks have finished the last 2 matches (and the 2 last year in SA) with all the momentum.
ABs have no ability to wrest control when they lose it. They play fine when they have control. Saw it against Argentina and now against Boks. Overplaying, poor decision making - call it what you will. But test match pressure is crushing the AB leaders and decision makers. Mistake upon mistake compounds and the pressure rises. Rather than reset and going back to basics, they try for the next Hail Mary….with obvious consequences they don’t work.
This is the nadir of the last few years. Some really big decisions need to be made.
The greats like McCaw and Carter used to grind out a hard won 20 metres and do it again.
Dinks are a cop out.
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Anyway women up in our hotel room in Wellington, and I still pissed at what I saw. I actually said to Mrs, that could save us some money, as I feel I won't probably bother to coming to a test again. I can handle us losing, but not thinking an AB team pulled the plug with 15 minutes to go. If I see any press conference and Razor or anyone makes excuses, apart from pointing out how bad they seem to of been coached and played, I will kick the tv. And I can't afford a new one!
This is such a negative post by your standards Dan, a huge indictment on the team. They have failed us all
I know mate, as a matter of principle, I try to avoid being negative, in here ( or any forum), but like most of us I am hurting!
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@ACT-Crusader The new Clyde Rathbone?
Ethan Hooker. He attacked the line and competed in the air.
Have to admit when he had the ball I was getting confused by the commentary. I really am stupid.
The other thing, I noticed once we got close to halftime , and until end of game, if we did anything to look at getting a head of steam up, a Bok would go down injured. I know it's a piss off etc, but I never saw Scooter get in refs ear. I was sitting just in front a few touring Bok supporters who laughed and said it was there game. We weren't arguing etc, just agreeing, and the bottom line is if our captain etc are doing job, we should stay switched on anyway!
Was noticeable that they had a wterboy on sideling, conveying message non stop, he would use hand signals, and quite often just hold uo a number of fingers. Again why not us?