RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1)

@NTA said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Duluth said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Rapido

Impressive tackling stats from their pack (Most of the misses came from the backs, particularly 10/12/13)

Player	Tackles	Missed Tackles
M Vunipola	20	0
George	18	0
Sinckler	10	1
Itoje	15	0
Lawes	15	0
Curry	17	1
Underhill	20	2
B Vunipola	16	0

Also fairly straightforward when the modus operandii of the opposition is one-out running straight at a defender.

The Poms are big, strong lads. They play that style in their Premiership every week. Lapped it up.

Yeah, the English may have have had to defend for most of the game, but the Aussies didn't make doing so very difficult.

@canefan said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Kirwan said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@canefan not really, he was watching it on the big screen and thought he saw Reese touch the ball. The TMO had a screen a few inches away and corrected him, they worked together to make the right call.

I remember hearing the exchange, nigel asked if the black player touched the ball during the tackle, the TMO said more than once that he had only to finally correct himself. I dont think he ever thought Reece had touched it but his language was poor. Right decision in the end

Re the BB try I'm pretty certain the law was you're not offside if the ball rebounded off a player that was not playing at the ball.

Reece was attempting a tackle and it initially appeared that the ball may have bounced forward off his head. (Obviously it didn't it as he hit Sex Toy's elbow and the ball went backward off green.)

My query, which is now a moot point but I'm still interested, is if it had hit Reece's head would Mo'unga be offside as Reece did not play at the ball.

My understanding is he would not have been offside. But my understanding may be either out if date, mistaken or both.

Maybe I should ask @Damo.

@kiwiinmelb said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

Saying read has a tight calf , didn’t train , spent the morning on the bike in the gym

Harden up. Not like your foot is broken in three places ...

.... Nooooo ....

@booboo pretty sure that's league (not playing at the ball). Otherwise there'd be no such thing as accidental offside.

@Bones and that was what NO was getting clarification for, so have to assume it was relevant.

@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@booboo pretty sure that's league (not playing at the ball). Otherwise there'd be no such thing as accidental offside.

Was certainly a law in proper rugby back in the day.

Just like you could mark a knock on... back when I knew the law book backwards.

And disagree about accidental offside. That's when a player plays at the ball, knocks it forward (for example) and it rebounds into a player in front accidentally.

@booboo said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@booboo pretty sure that's league (not playing at the ball). Otherwise there'd be no such thing as accidental offside.

Was certainly a law in proper rugby back in the day.

Just like you could mark a knock on... back when I knew the law book backwards.

And disagree about accidental offside. That's when a player plays at the ball, knocks it forward (for example) and it rebounds into a player in front accidentally.

Or when the ball comes off a player accidentally into a player in front without the player in front playing at it. For example.

@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@booboo said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@booboo pretty sure that's league (not playing at the ball). Otherwise there'd be no such thing as accidental offside.

Was certainly a law in proper rugby back in the day.

Just like you could mark a knock on... back when I knew the law book backwards.

And disagree about accidental offside. That's when a player plays at the ball, knocks it forward (for example) and it rebounds into a player in front accidentally.

Or when the ball comes off a player accidentally into a player in front without the player in front playing at it. For example.

See, in booboo world that's play on because the player behind didn't play at it.

I really should just go read the law book myself ...

@Gunner said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

I get sick of seeing these bloody columns....

Read something yesterday which talked of "the inexperienced Anton Lienart-Brown"....

He's got 40-ish caps and been in tha ABs for 3 years FFS.

@Crucial said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

Here's an idea. Start with Crotty as you know he won't last long before breaking anyway, then instruct him to run head first at Farrell's shoulder.
The ultimate sacrifice.

I think you've just thought up a fresh conspiracy theory for the English rugby media.

@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Gunner said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

I get sick of seeing these bloody columns....

Read something yesterday which talked of "the inexperienced Anton Lienart-Brown"....

He's got 40-ish caps and been in tha ABs for 3 years FFS.

There's been a bit in the press about how relatively inexperienced the current NZ backline is, Bridge, Reece, Goodhue and Mo'unga but yeah, putting ALB in there is something of a stretch. Maybe they're referencing his age. He's quite young to be a 40 cap veteran? Odd though still.

@Catogrande I assume they're ignoring the bench then? Sorry Eddie..."finishers".

@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

Read something yesterday which talked of "the inexperienced Anton Lienart-Brown"....

He's got 40-ish caps and been in tha ABs for 3 years FFS.

Take out Smith and Beauden has more caps than the rest of the backline including ALB, combined. Players accumulate test caps very quickly nowadays.

@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Catogrande I assume they're ignoring the bench then? Sorry Eddie..."finishers".

That's our underrated little secret. Best bench in the tourney

@Bones Safe to assume that. No story otherwise

Eddie really does have a disposition and confidence that gives you pause supporting the opposition.

Almost had me worried the ABs might be in trouble this week until about the 6:55 mark.

Eddie can spout off as much as he likes. The All Blacks will be make their statement on Saturday evening.

@rotated Prepare well, focus on own strengths, play well for each other.

Bang! Just like that Mitch zooms England to favourites.

@Richie8-7 said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

We get Nigel Owens. Great news...I can live with him not being card happy, even though it saved Ireland several times.

On balance, this is good news. The English are familar with Nigel Owens but so are the All Blacks. We gave away too many penalties on Saturday, the ABs will have to look at the tape and see how they can manage Owens' interpretations better.

Two gains though. With Owens you get more patrolling of the offisde line than some refs, England were in front of the back foot at almost every ruck with Garces before the Aussie had the ball out last week. Also, Nigel is as experienced as they come, so no chance of him freezing on the big occasion.

@rotated Agree, I thought he came across pretty well, and I'm far from his biggest fan. He actually considered the qns, which is my biggest gripe, the flippant pre-prepared fob-off answer

@sparky said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Richie8-7 said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

We get Nigel Owens. Great news...I can live with him not being card happy, even though it saved Ireland several times.

On balance, this is good news. The English are familar with Nigel Owens but so are the All Blacks. We gave away too many penalties on Saturday, the ABs will have to look at the tape and see how they can manage Owens' interpretations better.

Two gains though. With Owens you get more patrolling of the offisde line than some refs, England were in front of the back foot at almost every ruck with Garces before the Aussie had the ball out last week. Also, Nigel is as experienced as they come, so no chance of him freezing on the big occasion.

The other positive of having Nige as our ref is that he's less likely to let the English chirping affect his decision-making, at least in their favour (see his telling off of Murray on the weekend).

Was the combined "dream team" posted? Manu Vunipola was a surprise.

@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

Was the combined "dream team" posted? Manu Vunipola was a surprise.

View embedded content

I almost clicked on the link until I saw

"highly respected British rugby writer Stuart Barnes"

@Bones it remains to be seen if he is correct. I suspect the ABs have quietly undergone a revolution in terms of how they play the game, and these so called experts like Barnes and O'Sullivan have not yet fully cottoned on. Our boys are the only ones who can get in the way of an AB win. A lack of physicality or handling will allow England to feed off our mistakes. But I'm quietly confident that we will win comfortably and that we will run England off the park

@Catogrande only the arrogant English could select someone who's never even featured in international rugby in a combined team.

@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

Was the combined "dream team" posted? Manu Vunipola was a surprise.

View embedded content

Hmmm... so the AB front-row,midfield and wings suck compared to England.
And Hansen is playing B.Barrett out of position.

This can't end well.

@Billy-Webb to be fair only half the wings, for some reason I can't stand May but his form is pretty irresistible and he's fairly similar to Bridge.

Plus, someone's got to be responsible for letting such an average Irish team score so many points.

@Billy-Webb

I suspect Eddie understands what game we are playing....

@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Catogrande only the arrogant English could select someone who's never even featured in international rugby in a combined team.

Look. I'm not going to click on it so you will just have to tell me who that is.

@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Catogrande only the arrogant English could select someone who's never even featured in international rugby in a combined team.

Look. I'm not going to click on it so you will just have to tell me who that is.

Sigh. Manu Vunipola...

@Bones See, now I thought you were being serious and that Barnes had sprung a REAL left field one.

Edit: Which would not altogether surprise me.

@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Bones See, now I thought you were being serious and that Barnes had sprung a REAL left field one.

Edit: Which would not altogether surprise me.

Well I've never heard of him. But if he's from England then he's probably a supreme tight forward.

@canefan said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Bones it remains to be seen if he is correct. I suspect the ABs have quietly undergone a revolution in terms of how they play the game, and these so called experts like Barnes and O'Sullivan have not yet fully cottoned on. Our boys are the only ones who can get in the way of an AB win. A lack of physicality or handling will allow England to feed off our mistakes. But I'm quietly confident that we will win comfortably and that we will run England off the park

Yes I am with. It’s interesting that someone like Barnes who has a secret Hard on for the ABs still does not get that Barrett was struggling at 10 despite the World Player of the year awards. It’s been clear as day to us that Mounga is better in that role and Barrett relishes the space at the back. The Irish pundits did not get it at all but hilarious to see their post mortems now. It is a hard road that the ABs have to take to win this but like last game I feel good. The ABs having this much time together is more meaningful than any other team. They have form, fitness and chemistry on their side, they know exactly what’s coming , ABs by at least 10.

@DMX Interesting your view on the Barret v Mo'unga discussion. I've never felt that Barrett was a fantastic fly half - and I realise that this may lead to me being virtual lynched on here, but to me he does not seem to fit too well for some of the key duties of a 10. His kicking game is a bit off, his game management is not up there with the likes of say Carter, BUT he is without doubt a fantastic, almost freakish, rugby player and has to play. I can see the argument for having him at 10 as he is so good that you want to get the ball to him as often and as quickly as possible, but I think I agree with you that the extra space he gets at 15 is perhaps more suited and allied to that, you have a bloody good 10 in Mo'unga to bring a little more control to the game.

A very nice problem to have.

Off to dig a trench and search for my tin hat...

@Catogrande think you're safe with Rancid no longer lurking.

@gt12 said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

I was fascinated to see Owens and Schmidt having a long talk before the game last week (with Schmidt clearly trying to get something across, including gestures about tackling or clean outs). I wondered whether, in any way, that then influenced what he looked for at penalty time.

Hansen didn't bother approaching Owens, although might have said hi.

Hansen and Schmidt had a massive talk too. They look like they are pretty friendly.

Owens has a reputation in Ireland for spectating rather than reffing.

@chimoaus said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

I have to take my hat off to Shag and his team, this time last year I never thought, Franks, Bender and Ioane would not be in the 23 come semi final time. I would also not have thought Ardie would be at 6, Mounga at 10 and Bridge and Reece on the wings.

It shows that Shag and co realised they needed to change it up to be successful at RWC, unlike Ireland who stuck with the same aging players and game plan.

I don't think they were always this way, J Savea, NMS, Franks and a few others were kept past their prime based on experience and past achievements.

Perhaps they had the game plan to beat the rush defence and just set about getting the best players to match.

Maybe the losses to the Irish and some other poor performances were the catalyst to change.

Even if we don't win the WC, I take my hat off to Shag and co for evolving and trusting their process.

Interesting that in June Joe Schmidt told me he thought ABs might go with Ardie at 6 and Beau'unga, not that he used that name for it.

Can Poms boss ABs in forwards? No bigger than Boks who didn't manage it. Doubt they'll get any scrum momentum. They will look to disrupt our lineout albeit the back row vs Oz won't help there. Key for them is Vunipola bros, whose footwork in contact often unlocks defences. In backs without Ford not much flair, but St. Owen is good at manipulating space IF he gets front foot ball. Expect their kick chase to be highly organised, so running from own half needs to be approached with caution. If ABs get fast ball it will be a long night for Eddie.

@pakman to be fair in the whole I’d say the Boks forwards did get the better of ours / especially first 20. They just forgot to score points.

Will be interesting to see if Eddie thinks at all of team changes. I could see Kruis starting, which opens up some options for them at 6. Seems Ford is not trusted at highest level, which for me is too timid, as I think they need to take some risks.