RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1)

@Richie8-7 said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

We get Nigel Owens. Great news...I can live with him not being card happy, even though it saved Ireland several times.

On balance, this is good news. The English are familar with Nigel Owens but so are the All Blacks. We gave away too many penalties on Saturday, the ABs will have to look at the tape and see how they can manage Owens' interpretations better.

Two gains though. With Owens you get more patrolling of the offisde line than some refs, England were in front of the back foot at almost every ruck with Garces before the Aussie had the ball out last week. Also, Nigel is as experienced as they come, so no chance of him freezing on the big occasion.

@rotated Agree, I thought he came across pretty well, and I'm far from his biggest fan. He actually considered the qns, which is my biggest gripe, the flippant pre-prepared fob-off answer

@sparky said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Richie8-7 said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

We get Nigel Owens. Great news...I can live with him not being card happy, even though it saved Ireland several times.

On balance, this is good news. The English are familar with Nigel Owens but so are the All Blacks. We gave away too many penalties on Saturday, the ABs will have to look at the tape and see how they can manage Owens' interpretations better.

Two gains though. With Owens you get more patrolling of the offisde line than some refs, England were in front of the back foot at almost every ruck with Garces before the Aussie had the ball out last week. Also, Nigel is as experienced as they come, so no chance of him freezing on the big occasion.

The other positive of having Nige as our ref is that he's less likely to let the English chirping affect his decision-making, at least in their favour (see his telling off of Murray on the weekend).

Was the combined "dream team" posted? Manu Vunipola was a surprise.

@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

Was the combined "dream team" posted? Manu Vunipola was a surprise.

View embedded content

I almost clicked on the link until I saw

"highly respected British rugby writer Stuart Barnes"

@Bones it remains to be seen if he is correct. I suspect the ABs have quietly undergone a revolution in terms of how they play the game, and these so called experts like Barnes and O'Sullivan have not yet fully cottoned on. Our boys are the only ones who can get in the way of an AB win. A lack of physicality or handling will allow England to feed off our mistakes. But I'm quietly confident that we will win comfortably and that we will run England off the park

@Catogrande only the arrogant English could select someone who's never even featured in international rugby in a combined team.

@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

Was the combined "dream team" posted? Manu Vunipola was a surprise.

View embedded content

Hmmm... so the AB front-row,midfield and wings suck compared to England.
And Hansen is playing B.Barrett out of position.

This can't end well.

@Billy-Webb to be fair only half the wings, for some reason I can't stand May but his form is pretty irresistible and he's fairly similar to Bridge.

Plus, someone's got to be responsible for letting such an average Irish team score so many points.

@Billy-Webb

I suspect Eddie understands what game we are playing....

@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Catogrande only the arrogant English could select someone who's never even featured in international rugby in a combined team.

Look. I'm not going to click on it so you will just have to tell me who that is.

@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Bones said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Catogrande only the arrogant English could select someone who's never even featured in international rugby in a combined team.

Look. I'm not going to click on it so you will just have to tell me who that is.

Sigh. Manu Vunipola...

@Bones See, now I thought you were being serious and that Barnes had sprung a REAL left field one.

Edit: Which would not altogether surprise me.

@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Bones See, now I thought you were being serious and that Barnes had sprung a REAL left field one.

Edit: Which would not altogether surprise me.

Well I've never heard of him. But if he's from England then he's probably a supreme tight forward.

@canefan said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Bones it remains to be seen if he is correct. I suspect the ABs have quietly undergone a revolution in terms of how they play the game, and these so called experts like Barnes and O'Sullivan have not yet fully cottoned on. Our boys are the only ones who can get in the way of an AB win. A lack of physicality or handling will allow England to feed off our mistakes. But I'm quietly confident that we will win comfortably and that we will run England off the park

Yes I am with. It’s interesting that someone like Barnes who has a secret Hard on for the ABs still does not get that Barrett was struggling at 10 despite the World Player of the year awards. It’s been clear as day to us that Mounga is better in that role and Barrett relishes the space at the back. The Irish pundits did not get it at all but hilarious to see their post mortems now. It is a hard road that the ABs have to take to win this but like last game I feel good. The ABs having this much time together is more meaningful than any other team. They have form, fitness and chemistry on their side, they know exactly what’s coming , ABs by at least 10.

@DMX Interesting your view on the Barret v Mo'unga discussion. I've never felt that Barrett was a fantastic fly half - and I realise that this may lead to me being virtual lynched on here, but to me he does not seem to fit too well for some of the key duties of a 10. His kicking game is a bit off, his game management is not up there with the likes of say Carter, BUT he is without doubt a fantastic, almost freakish, rugby player and has to play. I can see the argument for having him at 10 as he is so good that you want to get the ball to him as often and as quickly as possible, but I think I agree with you that the extra space he gets at 15 is perhaps more suited and allied to that, you have a bloody good 10 in Mo'unga to bring a little more control to the game.

A very nice problem to have.

Off to dig a trench and search for my tin hat...

@Catogrande think you're safe with Rancid no longer lurking.

@gt12 said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

I was fascinated to see Owens and Schmidt having a long talk before the game last week (with Schmidt clearly trying to get something across, including gestures about tackling or clean outs). I wondered whether, in any way, that then influenced what he looked for at penalty time.

Hansen didn't bother approaching Owens, although might have said hi.

Hansen and Schmidt had a massive talk too. They look like they are pretty friendly.

Owens has a reputation in Ireland for spectating rather than reffing.

@chimoaus said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

I have to take my hat off to Shag and his team, this time last year I never thought, Franks, Bender and Ioane would not be in the 23 come semi final time. I would also not have thought Ardie would be at 6, Mounga at 10 and Bridge and Reece on the wings.

It shows that Shag and co realised they needed to change it up to be successful at RWC, unlike Ireland who stuck with the same aging players and game plan.

I don't think they were always this way, J Savea, NMS, Franks and a few others were kept past their prime based on experience and past achievements.

Perhaps they had the game plan to beat the rush defence and just set about getting the best players to match.

Maybe the losses to the Irish and some other poor performances were the catalyst to change.

Even if we don't win the WC, I take my hat off to Shag and co for evolving and trusting their process.

Interesting that in June Joe Schmidt told me he thought ABs might go with Ardie at 6 and Beau'unga, not that he used that name for it.

Can Poms boss ABs in forwards? No bigger than Boks who didn't manage it. Doubt they'll get any scrum momentum. They will look to disrupt our lineout albeit the back row vs Oz won't help there. Key for them is Vunipola bros, whose footwork in contact often unlocks defences. In backs without Ford not much flair, but St. Owen is good at manipulating space IF he gets front foot ball. Expect their kick chase to be highly organised, so running from own half needs to be approached with caution. If ABs get fast ball it will be a long night for Eddie.

@pakman to be fair in the whole I’d say the Boks forwards did get the better of ours / especially first 20. They just forgot to score points.

Will be interesting to see if Eddie thinks at all of team changes. I could see Kruis starting, which opens up some options for them at 6. Seems Ford is not trusted at highest level, which for me is too timid, as I think they need to take some risks.

@MajorRage said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@pakman to be fair in the whole I’d say the Boks forwards did get the better of ours / especially first 20. They just forgot to score points.

They were getting territory, but for me they never made decent breaks. And they ran out of steam in second. In Japan, rope a dope seems quite a wise strategy.

And there's BBBR, whom Shag labels a juggernaut!

@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@DMX Interesting your view on the Barret v Mo'unga discussion. I've never felt that Barrett was a fantastic fly half - and I realise that this may lead to me being virtual lynched on here, but to me he does not seem to fit too well for some of the key duties of a 10. His kicking game is a bit off, his game management is not up there with the likes of say Carter, BUT he is without doubt a fantastic, almost freakish, rugby player and has to play. I can see the argument for having him at 10 as he is so good that you want to get the ball to him as often and as quickly as possible, but I think I agree with you that the extra space he gets at 15 is perhaps more suited and allied to that, you have a bloody good 10 in Mo'unga to bring a little more control to the game.

A very nice problem to have.

Off to dig a trench and search for my tin hat...

What you have said is what a lot of kiwis have been saying anyway ,

Many have felt he is better suited to 15, But we had a damm good Fullback in Ben smith as well ,

The emergence of Mounga with the ageing of Ben Smith may be perfect timing

This game will be a battle of tempo. We saw that in the QF against Ireland where the Irish wanted to slow the game down and go through their phases, but more so in the Japan-SA QF where the tactics of each team couldn't have been anymore different. While England play at a higher tempo than either Ireland or SA they won't want the game to get too unstructured as that negates their defensive line speed. Aust created opportunities on attack but errors let them down and I expect the ABs to be more pragmatic on exit plays.

@Bovidae they will have to control posession for prolonged periods, and find a way to create breakdown situations when we have the ball. We will be trying to avoid rucks and push the tempo. Execution, as always, will be critical

@Catogrande yeah most would agree with you, he is a prodigious talent, and when BFA was still at the top of his game, BB had to play, and as such, it was at 10. Now we have a world class 10, BFA is no longer at the top, BB can play 15.

My gung-ho attitude has somewhat subsided.

I was certain we would be far too strong for Ireland but England have been simmering away this world cup, a bit unnoticed to me.

I definitely think we have the better side but if our scrum cartwheels backwards all day, we have a good chance of coming second.

@Hooroo We may give penalites on their ball, but we have not lost a scrum for the last 130 or so times, so I'm not fussed. We just need to hold our own in scrums, or even not give too many penalties, and we're fine. So few scrums nowadays

@Machpants said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Hooroo We may give penalites on their ball, but we have not lost a scrum for the last 130 or so times, so I'm not fussed.

I need this. This helps.

I think our backs can destroy them and in the loose I am happy, just a bit worried about the tight and the potential of having to defend mauls.

@Hooroo Our maul defence is the best in the world IMO, our mauls also OK. Our lineout isnot the best, tho our defence is good enough. Our own scrums we are the best at getting the ball out, record number of times without loss - by a huge amount. We may struggle on their ball, esp if they keep it in, but hard to win test matches that way - cos we have to knock it on for that to happen!

@Bovidae said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

This game will be a battle of tempo. We saw that in the QF against Ireland where the Irish wanted to slow the game down and go through their phases, but more so in the Japan-SA QF where the tactics of each team couldn't have been anymore different. While England play at a higher tempo than either Ireland or SA they won't want the game to get too unstructured as that negates their defensive line speed. Aust created opportunities on attack but errors let them down and I expect the ABs to be more pragmatic on exit plays.

The aussies played into their hands running it out from their own 22, the poms were licking their lips setting up their defence at that end of the ground .
I sensed they looked far more nervous at the other end of the ground

No wonder Rieko isn't getting picked, Hansen can't even remember his name.

Some milestones going into the game according to wiki.

Read will tie with Fitzy for 2nd most games as captain.
BB scores any points he overtakes fox to go third all time.
He is also on top ten try scorers of all time which in itself is crazy considering how much he played fly half.

@Magpie_in_aus said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

Some milestones going into the game according to wiki.

Read will tie with Fitzy for 2nd most games as captain.
BB scores any points he overtakes fox to go third all time.
He is also on top ten try scorers of all time which in itself is crazy considering how much he played fly half.

I'm sure BB made a pact with the devil at some point so that every bouncing rugby ball he chases jumps straight into his arms. It's uncanny .....

@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@DMX Interesting your view on the Barret v Mo'unga discussion. I've never felt that Barrett was a fantastic fly half - and I realise that this may lead to me being virtual lynched on here, but to me he does not seem to fit too well for some of the key duties of a 10. His kicking game is a bit off, his game management is not up there with the likes of say Carter, BUT he is without doubt a fantastic, almost freakish, rugby player and has to play. I can see the argument for having him at 10 as he is so good that you want to get the ball to him as often and as quickly as possible, but I think I agree with you that the extra space he gets at 15 is perhaps more suited and allied to that, you have a bloody good 10 in Mo'unga to bring a little more control to the game.

A very nice problem to have.

Off to dig a trench and search for my tin hat...

man, i am with you. I got lynched for saying Barrett was a poor 10 but a fantastic rugby player. The Hurricanes faithful are a little sensitive.

@Magpie_in_aus If AB stats are up-to-date, Kieran Read needs one more try to tie with Richie for the most tries and points by a forward.

And of our rookies...

Mo'unga already has 115 test points (from 8 test starts and 15 tests overall).

Jordie Barrett has 11 test tries and 73 points (also from 15 tests, 5 as a sub).

George Bridge has 9 tries (from 8 tests, 3 as a sub).

@Chris-B said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Magpie_in_aus If AB stats are up-to-date, Kieran Read needs one more try to tie with Richie for the most tries and points by a forward.

A big gap from Read (26) and McCaw (27) to the next forward, Zinny with 17 test tries.

@Bovidae said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Chris-B said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):

@Magpie_in_aus If AB stats are up-to-date, Kieran Read needs one more try to tie with Richie for the most tries and points by a forward.

A big gap from Read (26) and McCaw (27) to the next forward, Zinny with 17 test tries.

Be nice for posterity if Richie and Kieran end up with the same number, but right at this point I'm not averse to seeing Kieran pull ahead.

In fact, if he wants to pull a couple of Cornelson's to finish, he is more than welcome!