All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test

@Dan54 said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

i still don't understand how he wasn't penalised for in the side

He actually didn't come in from side, that icture is rubbish, as that's where he ended up. I must be old, butFFS if that a card it's time to pack game in, it was and even in picture clearly shoulder on shoulder contact, and if you can't do that you can't clear out at ruck/maul.
And why would you do it, the same reason as you hit most rucks scrums etc etc etc, even when other team has it, to make tha ball as messy as possible. I not being rude, but thank f*** you fellas never played in teams with me or teams I coached, if you think going passive when opposition got ball!!

I thought the point was more 'if you're going to do something, do it properly/well'. I think most of us increasingly aging posters on here once played in the days of rucking, so I doubt there are many strangers to aggressive play posting.

And in reciprocity, I suspect in the days that you played and coached, there weren't 20-odd cameras at the ground, tough rules around head contact, nor a feral and parochial social media highlighting every last event and non-event. The intent I get, but it was pretty low percentage execution.

@Dan54 i very much disagree, here are the 2 frames before, pretty clear to me he's not coming through the middle and i would say he was offside in general, should be back on the line

@Dan54 said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

i still don't understand how he wasn't penalised for in the side

He actually didn't come in from side, that icture is rubbish, as that's where he ended up. I must be old, butFFS if that a card it's time to pack game in, it was and even in picture clearly shoulder on shoulder contact, and if you can't do that you can't clear out at ruck/maul.
And why would you do it, the same reason as you hit most rucks scrums etc etc etc, even when other team has it, to make tha ball as messy as possible. I not being rude, but thank f*** you fellas never played in teams with me or teams I coached, if you think going passive when opposition got ball!!

oh shut up Dan

I've just watched it, he absolutely came in the side. You old fuck, learn about the gate.

"going passive" jesus christ really? why didn't he just ruck a few dudes too. You know, that used to be totally okay 30 years ago as well

i'll go a step further, if he was anywhere near clearing out legally he'd be clearing the irish 7!

actually you know the worst bit about it? We are right on our line, Scotty Boy sets himself as the pillar defender, and then abandons it to dive in the side of the ruck. It did not cost us, but that is a bit hole inside Ta'avao now

It was mainly a timing issue, the Irish player reaches down to pick up the ball and SB starts going in the win the collision, but his timing was a tad early and he was not behind the hindmost feet. The Irish players seeing SB coming does not pick up the ball, hesitates and is hit by SB. If SB had simply waited another second or so for the Irish player to pick the ball and hit him hard it would have been fine.

The players are trying to win the collisions and SB just got the timing completely wrong and had committed to using his body to stop the opposition player scoring a try. These types of collisions happen multiple times a game when defending the line. We only pick out this one because SB got the timing wrong, and the Irish player used some intelligence to see what was happening.

I'd need to watch the replay again but I thought the ref very clearly called that he saw a shoulder to shoulder contact but played advantage for coming around too early.
Ireland 6 marginal on a dummy from the base (NZ free kick) which is what triggered Barrett to come at him. He made to pick up the ball then left it there. He isn't/wasn't bound to the ruck so if he had lifted the ball Barrett was full entitled to do what he did (except for the very high risk contact)

In breaking news, Cane’s injury from earlier this season has flared up and he’s been ruled out, Whitelock has caught COVID, Ardie has symptoms - Scott Barrett has been named AB captain

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

In breaking news, Cane’s injury from earlier this season has flared up and he’s been ruled out, Whitelock has caught COVID, Ardie has symptoms - Scott Barrett has been named AB captain

shit im scared this is serious

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

i still don't understand how he wasn't penalised for in the side

He actually didn't come in from side, that icture is rubbish, as that's where he ended up. I must be old, butFFS if that a card it's time to pack game in, it was and even in picture clearly shoulder on shoulder contact, and if you can't do that you can't clear out at ruck/maul.
And why would you do it, the same reason as you hit most rucks scrums etc etc etc, even when other team has it, to make tha ball as messy as possible. I not being rude, but thank f*** you fellas never played in teams with me or teams I coached, if you think going passive when opposition got ball!!

oh shut up Dan

I've just watched it, he absolutely came in the side. You old fuck, learn about the gate.

"going passive" jesus christ really? why didn't he just ruck a few dudes too. You know, that used to be totally okay 30 years ago as well

Yep fair enough, I just went back on a video and he came from side, but, I repeat if we going to card people for that we in the shit with the game.
No it's not about rucking people, but you don't just stand there because other team has ball in ruck, or do you not want counterrucking where you blow teams back over the ball. That's my main point, is rugby is a game of contest, and if we ever get to the point where we say, ok they have got ball, I will wander off and stand elsewhere, we might as well watch League.

@chimoaus I disagree. Live at the ground it looked dodgy as hell, it really wasn't just a rugby incident or timing.

There was another ruck about the same time, I'll check it as well... It also looked dodgy

@Crucial It was clear as Crucial, and that was my point, there is no way it was a card,!

@chimoaus that's very generous

@Dan54 said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

i still don't understand how he wasn't penalised for in the side

He actually didn't come in from side, that icture is rubbish, as that's where he ended up. I must be old, butFFS if that a card it's time to pack game in, it was and even in picture clearly shoulder on shoulder contact, and if you can't do that you can't clear out at ruck/maul.
And why would you do it, the same reason as you hit most rucks scrums etc etc etc, even when other team has it, to make tha ball as messy as possible. I not being rude, but thank f*** you fellas never played in teams with me or teams I coached, if you think going passive when opposition got ball!!

oh shut up Dan

I've just watched it, he absolutely came in the side. You old fuck, learn about the gate.

"going passive" jesus christ really? why didn't he just ruck a few dudes too. You know, that used to be totally okay 30 years ago as well

Yep fair enough, I just went back on a video and he came from side, but, I repeat if we going to card people for that we in the shit with the game.
No it's not about rucking people, but you don't just stand there because other team has ball in ruck, or do you not want counterrucking where you blow teams back over the ball. That's my main point, is rugby is a game of contest, and if we ever get to the point where we say, ok they have got ball, I will wander off and stand elsewhere, we might as well watch League.

i never said it was a red, but that's opening up for one with a high degree of risk, for no reward.

And it wasn't a counter-ruck, because as noted, then he hits the 7. I've done that heaps, especially because the 7s ribs are open and you can really hurt him

It was dumb because the ref is looking right at him, and he put himself in the refs hands, in 2022, with a reputation. And without a massive ref brainfart, that particular move will lever win us the ball.

But I'm most angry about him abandoning pillar right on the line

@Dan54 im sure there are others but you really are the first person ive "met" that would have been surprised if a card was given for that based on similar rulings

this is what is so frustrating, this is just a penalty but we see cards given for things like knock downs

@nzzp said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@chimoaus I disagree. Live at the ground it looked dodgy as hell, it really wasn't just a rugby incident or timing.

There was another ruck about the same time, I'll check it as well... It also looked dodgy

With all due respect NZZP, I really think live at ground the ref who was right there would of seen if it dodgy etc, and even TMO etc never seemed to call for replay.
I think almost every counter ruck is similar, and if we can't have shoulder to shoulder contact in rugby , we can't compete!

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Dan54 im sure there are others but you really are the first person ive "met" that would have been surprised if a card was given for that based on similar rulings

this is what is so frustrating, this is just a penalty but we see cards given for things like knock downs

I've never seen a card for a knock down, now you're just making stuff up!

@Dan54 said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial It was clear as Crucial, and that was my point, there is no way it was a card,!

I wouldn't say 'clear as'. The trouble here is the ref interpretation (or law ignoring) that judges a finger on the ruck constitutes binding. SB is touching the ruck so doesn't need to come from behind last players. Ireland 6 is touching the ruck so is deemed part of it and the ball not out.
Timing is out from SB because of the ball wasn't picked up. That's what he was pinged for (as an advantage)

@Machpants ive 100% seen a card for "deliberate knock down/on"...and it it wasn't even down, NPC game a couple of years ago, the Otago player reaches and pops the ball up...flys well out of his reach...runs and dives to regather but misses, yellow card, didn't have realistic chance of successfully intercepting

@Crucial said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Crucial It was clear as Crucial, and that was my point, there is no way it was a card,!

I wouldn't say 'clear as'. The trouble here is the ref interpretation (or law ignoring) that judges a finger on the ruck constitutes binding. SB is touching the ruck so doesn't need to come from behind last players. Ireland 6 is touching the ruck so is deemed part of it and the ball not out.
Timing is out from SB because of the ball wasn't picked up. That's what he was pinged for (as an advantage)

I saying it clear it wasn't a card for dangerous play, as ref said it was shoulder on shoulder contact, and that is clearly not a card, if someone wants to say it should of been for something else, well that up to them' Also Ta'avo seems in offside position to me .

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

In breaking news, Cane’s injury from earlier this season has flared up and he’s been ruled out, Whitelock has caught COVID, Ardie has symptoms - Scott Barrett has been named AB captain

Fuck I hope this is not true, reported anywhere?

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Machpants ive 100% seen a card for "deliberate knock down/on"...and it it wasn't even down, NPC game a couple of years ago, the Otago player reaches and pops the ball up...flys well out of his reach...runs and dives to regather but misses, yellow card, didn't have realistic chance of successfully intercepting

I was taking the piss, no such thing as a knock down (unless you are talking about an opponent), only knock on.

@chimoaus said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

In breaking news, Cane’s injury from earlier this season has flared up and he’s been ruled out, Whitelock has caught COVID, Ardie has symptoms - Scott Barrett has been named AB captain

Fuck I hope this is not true, reported anywhere?

@Machpants said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Machpants ive 100% seen a card for "deliberate knock down/on"...and it it wasn't even down, NPC game a couple of years ago, the Otago player reaches and pops the ball up...flys well out of his reach...runs and dives to regather but misses, yellow card, didn't have realistic chance of successfully intercepting

I was taking the piss, no such thing as a knock down (unless you are talking about an opponent), only knock on.

fuck you, i just wasted 5 minutes searching to find the video :cat_face_with_tears_of_joy: ...2017 otago v Ta$man if anyone cares

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Machpants said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Machpants ive 100% seen a card for "deliberate knock down/on"...and it it wasn't even down, NPC game a couple of years ago, the Otago player reaches and pops the ball up...flys well out of his reach...runs and dives to regather but misses, yellow card, didn't have realistic chance of successfully intercepting

I was taking the piss, no such thing as a knock down (unless you are talking about an opponent), only knock on.

fuck you, i just wasted 5 minutes searching to find the video :cat_face_with_tears_of_joy: ...2017 otago v Ta$man if anyone cares

Haha, well it's in the laws twice, but nothing to do with the ball!

Law 9: Foul play

A player must not charge or knock down an opponent carrying the ball without attempting to grasp that player.

Law application guidelines

Charging into the ruck

Dangerous charging. A player must not charge or knock down an opponent carrying the ball without trying to grasp that player.

@Machpants i think its clear i was talking about knock on, i just used the term "down" because, knocking it up can be argued there is a chance to intercept but where it cant really if its knocked straight down

should have known someone would be a pedant and point out "the laws say knock ON"

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Machpants i think its clear i was talking about knock on, i just used the term "down" because, knocking it up can be argued there is a chance to intercept but where it cant really if its knocked straight down

should have known someone would be a pedant and point out "the laws say knock ON"

Totally, any chance to be a pain in the arse, I'll take it! But there are certain posters on here that take that term as a personal affront!

Last thing from me on the Scott Barrett non offence. The Ref saw it as Shoulder on Shoulder so no card,the judiciary didn't see it as a citing offence.
So the debate about an incident that was deemed Ok by the people who really matter is a complete waste of time.No one can change the facts it was not a penalty,But the offside by SB was.

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

Last thing from me on the Scott Barrett non offence. The Ref saw it as Shoulder on Shoulder so no card,the judiciary didn't see it as a citing offence.
So the debate about an incident that was deemed Ok by the people who really matter is a complete waste of time.No one can change the facts it was not a penalty,But the offside by SB was.

holy shit uncircle the wagons cantabs

absolutely no one here is saying it was a fucking red card. no one.

plenty of reasons it was dumb. and it was a penalty. So there's your first proof it was dumb.

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

Last thing from me on the Scott Barrett non offence. The Ref saw it as Shoulder on Shoulder so no card,the judiciary didn't see it as a citing offence.
So the debate about an incident that was deemed Ok by the people who really matter is a complete waste of time. No one can change the facts it was not a penalty, But the offside by SB was.

The 2nd test is 5 days away, the team isn’t named until Thursday (I think it’s Thursday, can anyone confirm that?), so there is plenty of time to waste…

@Chris i can concede that if he'd come through the gate then i could be drawn to the shoulder to shoulder/ fair contest side of things....but i kind of figure when you're THAT offside then you're opening yourself up to every inch of criticism

i dont think its unfair to say the irish dude doesn't expect to get hit, he's looking up and seeing one of his guys in front of him, so it is quite different in my mid to the same hit in open play

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

Last thing from me on the Scott Barrett non offence. The Ref saw it as Shoulder on Shoulder so no card,the judiciary didn't see it as a citing offence.
So the debate about an incident that was deemed Ok by the people who really matter is a complete waste of time.No one can change the facts it was not a penalty,But the offside by SB was.

holy shit uncircle the wagons cantabs

absolutely no one here is saying it was a fucking red card. no one.

plenty of reasons it was dumb. and it was a penalty. So there's your first proof it was dumb.

Well we have a poster way up this thread saying SB should never be picked in the ABs again and should have been Red carded,massive over reaction so scroll through the whole thread.

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

Last thing from me on the Scott Barrett non offence. The Ref saw it as Shoulder on Shoulder so no card,the judiciary didn't see it as a citing offence.
So the debate about an incident that was deemed Ok by the people who really matter is a complete waste of time.No one can change the facts it was not a penalty,But the offside by SB was.

holy shit uncircle the wagons cantabs

absolutely no one here is saying it was a fucking red card. no one.

plenty of reasons it was dumb. and it was a penalty. So there's your first proof it was dumb.

Well we have a poster way up this thread saying SB should never be picked in the ABs again and should have been Red carded,massive over reaction so scroll through the whole thread.

quote it so we can have a laugh

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

Last thing from me on the Scott Barrett non offence. The Ref saw it as Shoulder on Shoulder so no card,the judiciary didn't see it as a citing offence.
So the debate about an incident that was deemed Ok by the people who really matter is a complete waste of time. No one can change the facts it was not a penalty, But the offside by SB was.

The 2nd test is 5 days away, the team isn’t named until Thursday (I think it’s Thursday, can anyone confirm that?), so there is plenty of time to waste…

Keep wasting your time talking about it, no problems its all hot air anyway.Highlander's will give you something to talk about over the next couple of weeks.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

Last thing from me on the Scott Barrett non offence. The Ref saw it as Shoulder on Shoulder so no card,the judiciary didn't see it as a citing offence.
So the debate about an incident that was deemed Ok by the people who really matter is a complete waste of time.No one can change the facts it was not a penalty,But the offside by SB was.

holy shit uncircle the wagons cantabs

absolutely no one here is saying it was a fucking red card. no one.

plenty of reasons it was dumb. and it was a penalty. So there's your first proof it was dumb.

Well we have a poster way up this thread saying SB should never be picked in the ABs again and should have been Red carded,massive over reaction so scroll through the whole thread.

quote it so we can have a laugh

Scroll through and see it, I had my say on it I don't want to call the dude out,Its not in my nature to squeal on people.

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

Last thing from me on the Scott Barrett non offence. The Ref saw it as Shoulder on Shoulder so no card,the judiciary didn't see it as a citing offence.
So the debate about an incident that was deemed Ok by the people who really matter is a complete waste of time.No one can change the facts it was not a penalty,But the offside by SB was.

holy shit uncircle the wagons cantabs

absolutely no one here is saying it was a fucking red card. no one.

plenty of reasons it was dumb. and it was a penalty. So there's your first proof it was dumb.

Well we have a poster way up this thread saying SB should never be picked in the ABs again and should have been Red carded,massive over reaction so scroll through the whole thread.

quote it so we can have a laugh

Scroll through and see it, I had my say on it I don't want to call the dude out,Its not in my nature to squeal on people.

i've read the whole thread and you are talking shit

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

Last thing from me on the Scott Barrett non offence. The Ref saw it as Shoulder on Shoulder so no card,the judiciary didn't see it as a citing offence.
So the debate about an incident that was deemed Ok by the people who really matter is a complete waste of time.No one can change the facts it was not a penalty,But the offside by SB was.

holy shit uncircle the wagons cantabs

absolutely no one here is saying it was a fucking red card. no one.

plenty of reasons it was dumb. and it was a penalty. So there's your first proof it was dumb.

Well we have a poster way up this thread saying SB should never be picked in the ABs again and should have been Red carded,massive over reaction so scroll through the whole thread.

quote it so we can have a laugh

Scroll through and see it, I had my say on it I don't want to call the dude out,Its not in my nature to squeal on people.

i've read the whole thread and you are talking shit

Read it again actually it was in the First test thread where all this started after the game.

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

Last thing from me on the Scott Barrett non offence. The Ref saw it as Shoulder on Shoulder so no card,the judiciary didn't see it as a citing offence.
So the debate about an incident that was deemed Ok by the people who really matter is a complete waste of time.No one can change the facts it was not a penalty,But the offside by SB was.

holy shit uncircle the wagons cantabs

absolutely no one here is saying it was a fucking red card. no one.

plenty of reasons it was dumb. and it was a penalty. So there's your first proof it was dumb.

Well we have a poster way up this thread saying SB should never be picked in the ABs again and should have been Red carded,massive over reaction so scroll through the whole thread.

quote it so we can have a laugh

Scroll through and see it, I had my say on it I don't want to call the dude out,Its not in my nature to squeal on people.

i've read the whole thread and you are talking shit

Read it again actually it was in the First test thread where all this started after the game.

so no this thread, talking shit, gotcha

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

Last thing from me on the Scott Barrett non offence. The Ref saw it as Shoulder on Shoulder so no card,the judiciary didn't see it as a citing offence.
So the debate about an incident that was deemed Ok by the people who really matter is a complete waste of time.No one can change the facts it was not a penalty,But the offside by SB was.

holy shit uncircle the wagons cantabs

absolutely no one here is saying it was a fucking red card. no one.

plenty of reasons it was dumb. and it was a penalty. So there's your first proof it was dumb.

Well we have a poster way up this thread saying SB should never be picked in the ABs again and should have been Red carded,massive over reaction so scroll through the whole thread.

quote it so we can have a laugh

Scroll through and see it, I had my say on it I don't want to call the dude out,Its not in my nature to squeal on people.

i've read the whole thread and you are talking shit

No, somebody did say it. A few beers in I would imagine.

I imagine the posters defending SB here would have a different option of it was Nepo being that stupid. Both have similar red card brain farts, and poor clean out technique.

As for the comment about going and watching League, a very real possibility of us playing with 13 if those two don't improve this area of their game.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Chris said in All Blacks Vs Ireland - 2nd Test:

Last thing from me on the Scott Barrett non offence. The Ref saw it as Shoulder on Shoulder so no card,the judiciary didn't see it as a citing offence.
So the debate about an incident that was deemed Ok by the people who really matter is a complete waste of time.No one can change the facts it was not a penalty,But the offside by SB was.

holy shit uncircle the wagons cantabs

absolutely no one here is saying it was a fucking red card. no one.

plenty of reasons it was dumb. and it was a penalty. So there's your first proof it was dumb.

Well we have a poster way up this thread saying SB should never be picked in the ABs again and should have been Red carded,massive over reaction so scroll through the whole thread.

quote it so we can have a laugh

Scroll through and see it, I had my say on it I don't want to call the dude out,Its not in my nature to squeal on people.

i've read the whole thread and you are talking shit

Read it again actually it was in the First test thread where all this started after the game.

so no this thread, talking shit, gotcha

Here you go champ
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:

I don't think Scott Barrett can play for the All Blacks again. He should have had another red card. He is just a bit of a dog. With no 20 minute red card he is just a liability.