Foster's Firsts.

@dogmeat 16. Samisoni Taukei’aho (25)

17. Ofa Tu’ungafasi (53)

18. Fletcher Newell (8)

19. Tupou Vaa’i (22)

20. Luke Jacobson (15)

21. Finlay Christie (17)

22. David Havili (25)

23. Leicester Fainga’anuku (3)

Bench vs France: hardly screams run them off their feet in the final 15 minutes. Too much a bob each way selecting. If that is genuinely the plan, then it should be something like Roigard, Taylor or Coles, Leicester, Tamaiti, McKenzie etc.

@dogmeat said in Foster's Firsts.:

I also don't think Razor is going to be the messiah next year.

He doesn't need to be the messiah, he just needs to not be a naughty naughty boy coach.

First AB (Ethan De Groot) to be sent off at the RWC.

@sparky

@sparky ordinarily I'd say you can't attribute that to the coaching, but there is certainly some issues with our discipline which does come back to coaching

@taniwharugby said in Foster's Firsts.:

@sparky ordinarily I'd say you can't attribute that to the coaching, but there is certainly some issues with our discipline which does come back to coaching

If it’s the coaching things may not get better next year. The Saders get pinged a hell of a lot.

@Crazy-Horse but they didn't get alot of cards do they, and usually a bit more calculated?

@taniwharugby said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Crazy-Horse but they didn't get alot of cards do they, and usually a bit more calculated?

I haven't see any stats but it seems to me they got carded a fair bit too. Or maybe it seemed that way to me because I support them.

@Crazy-Horse I know there is always lenty of chat in match threads about how.much they get away with or deserve cards....

@taniwharugby said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Crazy-Horse I know there is always lenty of chat in match threads about how.much they get away with or deserve cards....

Yeah but I think on here the Saders would be called evil
cheats for helping old ladies across the road.

@Crazy-Horse

Penalties not too bad, YCs they ranked 8th this year. 1st (meaning fewest YCs) was the Chiefs

Foz could be first AB coach to have win ratio below 70% ? Might have to fact check that one

@Nevorian said in Foster's Firsts.:

Foz could be first AB coach to have win ratio below 70% ? Might have to fact check that one

Nah nowhere near (from 2022)

lol Wayne Smith was shit!

@Machpants well he is teetering on the edge there if you take out those that were obviously sacked early in their tenures and if he manages to lose another one or two…..

I think this is accurate: Foster 2020-2023

Wins: 28 (68.3%)
Losses: 11 (26.8%)
Draws: 2 (4.9%)

So if we bomb out in the QF

Wins: 30 (68.2%)
Losses: 12 (27.3%)
Draws: 2 (4.5%)

Lucky Australia didn't have a purple patch during that time otherwise.......

Here is a stat. Against SA, France, and Ireland since 2020, the ABs winning statistic is 33%. That is 8 losses, 4 wins.

I note that almost all those coaches with poorer results got the chop before 4 years. As should have Foster (because at that point his results were even worse).

Some of those guys only had one losing tour, and then were axed. The series loss to Ireland would have been the end of a coach in previous times.

@Machpants said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Nevorian said in Foster's Firsts.:

Foz could be first AB coach to have win ratio below 70% ? Might have to fact check that one

Nah nowhere near (from 2022)
View image

Fred Allen is missing and had a 100% record from 14 Tests. Never lost a game IIRC and had one draw.

There's some names there like Ivan Vodanovich & JJ Stewart I really don't want to ever see again.... And we think the last few years have been a bit shit.

@Chester-Draws said in Foster's Firsts.:

I note that almost all those coaches with poorer results got the chop before 4 years. As should have Foster (because at that point his results were even worse).

Some of those guys only had one losing tour, and then were axed.
The series loss to Ireland would have been the end of a coach in previous times.

Different era. Coaches were appointed according to the touring schedule and being coach for more than a couple of years was very unusual. Coaching GOAT Fred Allen (won all 14 Tests) was only in the job for 2 years and JJ Stewart coached for 3 more years after losing a series at home to England in '73.

The closest parallel to today is Vodanovich who was replaced by the 1970's Coaching Jesus Bob Duff.

@Chester-Draws said in Foster's Firsts.:

I note that almost all those coaches with poorer results got the chop before 4 years. As should have Foster (because at that point his results were even worse).

Some of those guys only had one losing tour, and then were axed. The series loss to Ireland would have been the end of a coach in previous times.

Different times for sure.

They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.

Worth pointing out a very good Scots team that had just won a Grand Slam and contained all timers like David Sole, John Jeffrey, Finlay Calder, Gary Armstrong and the Hastings bros.

@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Machpants said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Nevorian said in Foster's Firsts.:

Foz could be first AB coach to have win ratio below 70% ? Might have to fact check that one

Nah nowhere near (from 2022)
View image

Fred Allen is missing and had a 100% record from 14 Tests. Never lost a game IIRC and had one draw.

There's some names there like Ivan Vodanovich & JJ Stewart I really don't want to ever see again.... And we think the last few years have been a bit shit.

Yeah I only included the 70% and less which is relevant to the incorrect statement

@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:

They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.

IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.

Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.

Bryce Rope (1983 — 1984) 9 1 2 12 75
Bob Duff (1972 — 1973) 6 1 1 8 75
John Hart (1996 — 1999) 31 1 9 41 76
Jack Gleeson (1977 — 1978) 10 0 3 13 77
Brian Lochore (1985 — 1987) 14 1 3 18 78
Neil McPhail (1961, 1963 — 1965) 16 2 2 20 80
John Mitchell (2002 — 2003) 23 1 4 28 82
Peter Burke (1981 — 1982) 9 0 2 11 82
Graham Henry (2004 — 2011) 88 0 15 103 85
Alex Wyllie (1988 — 1991) 25 1 3 29 86
Steve Hansen (2012 — 2019) 93 4 10 107 87
Fred Allen (1966 — 1968) 14 0 0 14 100
Ron Bush (1962) 2 0 0 2 100
Dick Everest (1957) 2 0 0 2 100
Len Clode (1951) 3 0 0 3 100

@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:

@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:

They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.

IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.

Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.

Why was Buck the scapegoat?

Everyone knows all about “Bring back Buck” but why was it him and no one else ?

Henry and Hansen's records really stand out given the number of games. Absolutely incredible success during the professional era. Not saying we can't improve but we probably have to accept we are unlikely to see win percentages like that again over so many matches.

@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:

@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:

They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.

IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.

Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.

Why was Buck the scapegoat?

Everyone knows all about “Bring back Buck” but why was it him and no one else ?

Million Dollar Question

@MN5 because Gallagher, Ridge and Schuster had all signed for rugby league clubs and the Nzrfu feared Zinzan Brooke would be next. In order to keep Zinny they had to drop Buck who was getting on in age anyway

@No-Quarter said in Foster's Firsts.:

Henry and Hansen's records really stand out given the number of games. Absolutely incredible success during the professional era. Not saying we can't improve but we probably have to accept we are unlikely to see win percentages like that again over so many matches.

Yeah no way little old NZ is getting back to that dominance, but the way that work & excellence has been lost so fast with the weak NZR unable to move on beyond those two coaches and protégée is terrible

Much like Vodanovich following Allen...

@No-Quarter said in Foster's Firsts.:

Henry and Hansen's records really stand out given the number of games. Absolutely incredible success during the professional era. Not saying we can't improve but we probably have to accept we are unlikely to see win percentages like that again over so many matches.

Golden generation too. How many (in their positions) GOATs were there?

@Catogrande

If you look at the 2015 squad a couple nailed on and probably another 9 that would be in the conversation.

@dogmeat said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Catogrande

If you look at the 2015 squad a couple nailed on and probably another 9 that would be in the conversation.

The 12 and 8 went ok too

@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:

@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:

@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:

They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.

IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.

Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.

Why was Buck the scapegoat?

Everyone knows all about “Bring back Buck” but why was it him and no one else ?

There were rumblings about him getting the arse before that because Zinzan Brooke had more hype than even Ethan Blackadder at the time and Buck was getting long in the tooth.

@Machpants said in Foster's Firsts.:

Bryce Rope (1983 — 1984) 9 1 2 12 75
Bob Duff (1972 — 1973) 6 1 1 8 75
John Hart (1996 — 1999) 31 1 9 41 76
Jack Gleeson (1977 — 1978) 10 0 3 13 77
Brian Lochore (1985 — 1987) 14 1 3 18 78
Neil McPhail (1961, 1963 — 1965) 16 2 2 20 80
John Mitchell (2002 — 2003) 23 1 4 28 82
Peter Burke (1981 — 1982) 9 0 2 11 82
Graham Henry (2004 — 2011) 88 0 15 103 85
Alex Wyllie (1988 — 1991) 25 1 3 29 86
Steve Hansen (2012 — 2019) 93 4 10 107 87
Fred Allen (1966 — 1968) 14 0 0 14 100
Ron Bush (1962) 2 0 0 2 100
Dick Everest (1957) 2 0 0 2 100
Len Clode (1951) 3 0 0 3 100

Why so much hate for John Mitchell, I would take 82% WR at the moment.