All Blacks XV 2024

NZ XV (29)
Props
Numia
Bower
Ross
Dyer
Ma’u

Hookers
Riccitelli
McAllister
J Taylor

Locks
Lord
Walker-Leawere
Ah Kuoi

Loose Forwards
Haig
Withy
Lio-Willie
Sotutu
Suafoa

Halfbacks
Fakatava
Hotham
Christie

First Five
Jacomb

Midfielder
Lam
Higgins
McLeod
Tupaea

Outside Backs
Perofeta
Fihaki
Tele’a
Springer
Nanai-Seturo

Have heard there is an expectation that Withy will be named, which to me suggests Lakai in the top squad and there is no Cane, because I can't really see which other loose forward they would omit... maybe Suafoa?

Have also heard J Taylor is in... keeping in mind ST is injured, and this is also a development side, to have him in there I don't think is ridiculous. Slater & Eklund probably ahead on ability, but neither of those are ever going to be ABs.

@frugby is this a wish list or inside information?

@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@frugby is this a wish list or inside information?

It's a guess... and in fairness, I am not sure I would tweak much other than the outside backs where I would have Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens in the mix for Fihaki.

With a team like this there always going to be unlucky omissions, because naturally at a lower level, there are more players of a similar standing, particularly in the loose forwards, midfield and outsides.

@frugby

I watched Withy and he had a pretty good season but I'm not convinced he deserves to be there over the likes of Kirifi or Segner.

I still wonder if Xavier Roe's kicking game and tactical awareness merits a look. Scrag tackler though.

Looking at the dates of the games there is the opportunity to give the third AB halfback (i.e., Hotham) a game against Georgia. That could also apply to other AB squad players. It's not possible for the Munster game as that is the same day as the English test.

@pakman said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@pakman said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV 2024:

Surely they take 5 props. Rakete-Stones was chosen last year as someone who could cover both sides.

You may be right, but only taking 29, so I assume Ofa and Tosi will be available if required.

If they are using this team for development there is no point selecting Harmon.

True, but not sure who is the form NPC 7 and Kirifi not my kettle of fish.

Which squad does Perofeta make?

He's in ABs.

Gallagher as a lock.

Too small for international level. We need another 6' 5" big body who can play 6. If not Zach, maybe Simon Parker?

You should have stuck with B Sullivan.

They can always leave out Tuapea.

None of the Highlanders forwards mentioned are listed.

Haig fits the size model. Who are you thinking of?

Bear in mind I've only seen Super rugby this year and a few NPC highlights!

Gallagher is 6ft 6 and 115 kg not small for an international lock .

Marginal. Seen him listed at 6' 5", but can't trust what you read!

Nah he’s 6ft 6

@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV 2024:

If they are using this team for development there is no point selecting Harmon.

Yup agreed, especially considering Harmon is leaving. I’ll add Riccitelli to that, the lads about to be 30. Everyone likes him and he had a great super season but if he’s doesn’t fit the bill of an upcoming/developmental player is there much point? I guess it comes down to how much of the drop of from him to the next group of hookers the coaches think there is.

@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@frugby is this a wish list or inside information?

It's a guess...

You’ve just said you have heard and now you’re saying it’s a guess. I’m slightly confused. You’re full squad is a guess or those Highlander names you’re saying you’ve heard are actually a guess?

If the All Blacks XV were being selected with an eye to the future, as opposed to just the current 'next best' squad, then I think we'd see something along the lines of:

Hookers (2): Brodie McAlister, Jack Taylor
Props (5): George Bower, Xavier Numia, Kauvaka Kauivelata, Marcel Renata, Saula Ma'u
Locks (3): Josh Lord, Fabian Holland, Zach Gallagher
Loose forwards (7): Oliver Haig, Malachi Wrampling, Cameron Suafoa, Peter Lakai, Sean Withy, Hoskins Sotutu, Simon Parker
Halfbacks (2): Noah Hotham, Folau Fakatava
First fives (1): Josh Jacomb
Centres (4): AJ Lam, Quinn Tupaea, Dallas McLeod, Gideon Wrampling
Wings (3): Kini Naholo, Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens, Emoni Narawa
Fullbacks (2): Ruben Love, Zarn Sullivan, Chay Fihaki

A couple of slightly more experienced guys in there but largely forward-thinking.

But suspect there'll be some names like Cullen Grace in there.

@Mr-Fish why select Bower if we're only looking to the future?

Not that I disagree, just swims in the face of not selecting someone like Riccitelli (I personally think guys like this are good in a dev XV - they still want to win).

@Bones Front row we're lacking older guys and already have some very inexperienced options in the All Blacks, plus they're roles where age is often a blessing, so kept some older heads in (in Bower, McAlister and Renata).

I also don't think there are any obvious young options running about that could make the step up yet (because young hookers and props seem to get such few opportunities in Super compared to players in other positions). Pretty much everyone else in this squad I'd be fairly comfortable if they were given a run for the All Blacks at this stage, so tried to do a blend of old and new in the front row.

I think everyone else is 26 (Suafoa, Sotutu, Lam) or under.

Why does Brodie McAlister get rated so highly? He's never been a regular starter at SR level and is always injured. What is it, 40 games in 6 seasons and is 27?

For all the criticism Ricci Riccitelli gets, at least he's a regular at SR level and was arguably the best performing SR hooker this year (with Aumua).

I'm not Riccitelli's biggest fan over the years by any stretch, but he deserves to be ahead of McAlister that's for sure.

One of the most debated topics on here recently, if Riccitelli wore a red and black jersey, would that help his chances?

@African-Monkey Riccitelli should be with the ABs, and Bell should be playing these games. One is ready to play if injury strikes, and one is developing. Why they keep getting this backwards I don't know.

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@African-Monkey Riccitelli should be with the ABs, and Bell should be playing these games. One is ready to play if injury strikes, and one is developing. Why they keep getting this backwards I don't know.

Because the coaches think the AB team is a development squad and part of the Crusaders jobs for the boys club

Goes back a long way, Toeava for example. I find it really frustrating because it's such an obvious solution to just change the budget so you can bring young players in to train with the squad without naming them as ABs.
It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.
It means if there is an injury in the squad you aren't forced to play someone who isn't ready.
You are still able to assess the young guys coming through.

@Landers92 said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@frugby is this a wish list or inside information?

It's a guess...

You’ve just said you have heard and now you’re saying it’s a guess. I’m slightly confused. You’re full squad is a guess or those Highlander names you’re saying you’ve heard are actually a guess?

Overall squad has heard is a guess. However, as I mention in the post, have heard that the Highlanders are expected Taylor, Haig and Withy to be named (not an exclusive list so doesn't exclude Ma'u etc.)

I don't know whether they know they are in, or quite what. Withy surprised me a little bit, because he is beating Segner effectively though then again we've seen this movie before where someone turned down Jason Ryan and got the cold shoulder (being cynical, though I do rate Withy, and think there is little between the two)

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@African-Monkey Riccitelli should be with the ABs, and Bell should be playing these games. One is ready to play if injury strikes, and one is developing. Why they keep getting this backwards I don't know.

I don't think the selectors think Riccitelli is up to the next level. Is his core game more rounded? Sure, but if RR played for the Crusaders and got picked, I can imagine people calling him another ordinary Crusader, one of Razor's boys etc.

@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:

I don't think the selectors think Riccitelli is up to the next level.

I'm not sure Taylor is either. Sure he is young but is just another under-sized hooker coming through the grades. Although I've never been a huge fan Slater does have some size to him, and is mobile.

@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Landers92 said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@frugby is this a wish list or inside information?

It's a guess...

You’ve just said you have heard and now you’re saying it’s a guess. I’m slightly confused. You’re full squad is a guess or those Highlander names you’re saying you’ve heard are actually a guess?

Overall squad has heard is a guess. However, as I mention in the post, have heard that the Highlanders are expected Taylor, Haig and Withy to be named (not an exclusive list so doesn't exclude Ma'u etc.)

I don't know whether they know they are in, or quite what. Withy surprised me a little bit, because he is beating Segner effectively though then again we've seen this movie before where someone turned down Jason Ryan and got the cold shoulder (being cynical, though I do rate Withy, and think there is little between the two)

Ok, I will bite. Who is rumoured to have turned down Ryan now?

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Landers92 said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@frugby is this a wish list or inside information?

It's a guess...

You’ve just said you have heard and now you’re saying it’s a guess. I’m slightly confused. You’re full squad is a guess or those Highlander names you’re saying you’ve heard are actually a guess?

Overall squad has heard is a guess. However, as I mention in the post, have heard that the Highlanders are expected Taylor, Haig and Withy to be named (not an exclusive list so doesn't exclude Ma'u etc.)

I don't know whether they know they are in, or quite what. Withy surprised me a little bit, because he is beating Segner effectively though then again we've seen this movie before where someone turned down Jason Ryan and got the cold shoulder (being cynical, though I do rate Withy, and think there is little between the two)

Ok, I will bite. Who is rumoured to have turned down Ryan now?

I've explained this before, but look at the initial reticence to Darry. Look at Sotutu. He's very much a trust-based guy. Let's be fair, Segner probably turned the Crusaders down to join the Blues just as Darry did.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:

I don't think the selectors think Riccitelli is up to the next level.

I'm not sure Taylor is either. Sure he is young but is just another under-sized hooker coming through the grades. Although I've never been a huge fan Slater does have some size to him, and is mobile.

I'm not sure Taylor is either, but they probably liken them to Dane Coles. Slater is someone who could have kicked on, but to do so really needed to be a nailed on starter. FWIW I think he could offer more than Riccitelli.

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.

Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.

Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.

The issue with Aki was Hansen selecting Francis Saili over him in 2013.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.

Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.

The issue with Aki was Hansen selecting Francis Saili over him in 2013.

That's appears to just be your personal preference, Aki didn't even start for the Chiefs in the finals games in 2013.

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.

Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.

Just a general point really: if you keep more guys in the AB frame, they are less likely to leave. Kids who are barely even deserving of a super starting spot yet are not likely to leave, and are not really of benefit to the AB squad. It's better to keep those guys, because you never know when the guys ahead of them are going to have a bad injury, form fall off a cliff, or go overseas themselves.
I don't think he was that far down though - who was ahead of him: Nonu, Francis, Malakai at most - and the latter 2 not very convincing?

@reprobate Obviously Andrew Horrell.

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.

Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.

The issue with Aki was Hansen selecting Francis Saili over him in 2013.

That's appears to just be your personal preference, Aki didn't even start for the Chiefs in the finals games in 2013.

And Saili wasn't even starting for the Blues in 2013 when he got picked for the mid Super AB squad....

Lol, flying all that distance for just 2 games is such a waste of staff and resources... why would they not play more games? some players will be flying halfway around the world for grand total 20 mins of rugby off the bench, how is limited opportunities like this supposed to keep players in the country? Oh gee I'm not taking that overseas contract cause I get to play half a game for the All Blacks XV. Should probably be 4 games really.

@darylmitchell said in All Blacks XV 2024:

Lol, flying all that distance for just 2 games is such a waste of staff and resources... why would they not play more games? some players will be flying halfway around the world for grand total 20 mins of rugby off the bench, how is limited opportunities like this supposed to keep players in the country? Oh gee I'm not taking that overseas contract cause I get to play half a game for the All Blacks XV. Should probably be 4 games really.

Suppose part of it comes down to being able to find competitive games. Portugal could have been fun, but that said reckon we'd still smoke em.

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.

Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.

Just a general point really: if you keep more guys in the AB frame, they are less likely to leave. Kids who are barely even deserving of a super starting spot yet are not likely to leave, and are not really of benefit to the AB squad. It's better to keep those guys, because you never know when the guys ahead of them are going to have a bad injury, form fall off a cliff, or go overseas themselves.
I don't think he was that far down though - who was ahead of him: Nonu, Francis, Malakai at most - and the latter 2 not very convincing?

Aki left because he wanted to, not because he wasn't apprenticing in the ABs, he was a second year Super player and he went solely for money. He didn't leave for international rugby because he could have immediately played for Samoa.

@frugby How can it be profitable to travel all that way for a 2-game tour?

They are taking a 10 person management team and 30 players, like at least play more games and make it a worthwhile trip for everyone involved?

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.

Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.

Just a general point really: if you keep more guys in the AB frame, they are less likely to leave. Kids who are barely even deserving of a super starting spot yet are not likely to leave, and are not really of benefit to the AB squad. It's better to keep those guys, because you never know when the guys ahead of them are going to have a bad injury, form fall off a cliff, or go overseas themselves.
I don't think he was that far down though - who was ahead of him: Nonu, Francis, Malakai at most - and the latter 2 not very convincing?

Aki left because he wanted to, not because he wasn't apprenticing in the ABs, he was a second year Super player and he went solely for money. He didn't leave for international rugby because he could have immediately played for Samoa.

he left for international, he was a project player, specifically signed with the intention of representing Ireland in the future. So money and internationally rugby

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.

Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.

The issue with Aki was Hansen selecting Francis Saili over him in 2013.

That's appears to just be your personal preference, Aki didn't even start for the Chiefs in the finals games in 2013.

And Saili wasn't even starting for the Blues in 2013 when he got picked for the mid Super AB squad....

Which doesn't make it the issue with Aki. It's just two players who weren't ready for the ABs only the one you don't like was selected.

@Machpants said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.

Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.

Just a general point really: if you keep more guys in the AB frame, they are less likely to leave. Kids who are barely even deserving of a super starting spot yet are not likely to leave, and are not really of benefit to the AB squad. It's better to keep those guys, because you never know when the guys ahead of them are going to have a bad injury, form fall off a cliff, or go overseas themselves.
I don't think he was that far down though - who was ahead of him: Nonu, Francis, Malakai at most - and the latter 2 not very convincing?

Aki left because he wanted to, not because he wasn't apprenticing in the ABs, he was a second year Super player and he went solely for money. He didn't leave for international rugby because he could have immediately played for Samoa.

he left for international, he was a project player, specifically signed with the intention of representing Ireland in the future. So money and internationally rugby

Regardless, it wasn't not being brought into train with the ABs in 2013 that "made" him go. He's a bad example of the point being made.

@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:

Suppose part of it comes down to being able to find competitive games. Portugal could have been fun, but that said reckon we'd still smoke em.

The fact that the Georgia game will be played in France (where a lot of their players play club rugby) suggests this is the situation. RugbyPass says that England A is playing Australia A on Nov 18 so maybe they could have played some A teams. Hard to organise at late notice though with the NH club situation.

In the hypothetical world where Aki stayed in NZ, he doesn't crack the ABs until at least 2016, because he would have remained behind Smith, Nonu, SBW (who returned from league) and Fekitoa (who had just guided the Highlanders to the SR title).

In this hypothetical world, I reckon he possibly goes to the Blues because SBW was coming back, and Nonu had just left to the Hurricanes... or Tamanivalu didn't end up at the Chiefs (who bolted into the ABs).

All things considered, Aki possibly makes the ABs that year, considering ALB and Tamanivalu bolted in, but they were centres. I doubt he gets in ahead of Crotty or SBW, so in short, he probably still ends up leaving anyway.

Riccitelli has a very well rounded game and has been part of the ABs XV before so I would be surprised if he isn't there.

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.

Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.

The issue with Aki was Hansen selecting Francis Saili over him in 2013.

That's appears to just be your personal preference, Aki didn't even start for the Chiefs in the finals games in 2013.

And Saili wasn't even starting for the Blues in 2013 when he got picked for the mid Super AB squad....

Which doesn't make it the issue with Aki. It's just two players who weren't ready for the ABs only the one you don't like was selected.

That's where we agree to disagree. I thought Aki had shown enough to be selected.