@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV 2024:
If they are using this team for development there is no point selecting Harmon.
Yup agreed, especially considering Harmon is leaving. I’ll add Riccitelli to that, the lads about to be 30. Everyone likes him and he had a great super season but if he’s doesn’t fit the bill of an upcoming/developmental player is there much point? I guess it comes down to how much of the drop of from him to the next group of hookers the coaches think there is.
@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@frugby is this a wish list or inside information?
It's a guess...
You’ve just said you have heard and now you’re saying it’s a guess. I’m slightly confused. You’re full squad is a guess or those Highlander names you’re saying you’ve heard are actually a guess?
If the All Blacks XV were being selected with an eye to the future, as opposed to just the current 'next best' squad, then I think we'd see something along the lines of:
Hookers (2): Brodie McAlister, Jack Taylor
Props (5): George Bower, Xavier Numia, Kauvaka Kauivelata, Marcel Renata, Saula Ma'u
Locks (3): Josh Lord, Fabian Holland, Zach Gallagher
Loose forwards (7): Oliver Haig, Malachi Wrampling, Cameron Suafoa, Peter Lakai, Sean Withy, Hoskins Sotutu, Simon Parker
Halfbacks (2): Noah Hotham, Folau Fakatava
First fives (1): Josh Jacomb
Centres (4): AJ Lam, Quinn Tupaea, Dallas McLeod, Gideon Wrampling
Wings (3): Kini Naholo, Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens, Emoni Narawa
Fullbacks (2): Ruben Love, Zarn Sullivan, Chay Fihaki
A couple of slightly more experienced guys in there but largely forward-thinking.
But suspect there'll be some names like Cullen Grace in there.
@Bones Front row we're lacking older guys and already have some very inexperienced options in the All Blacks, plus they're roles where age is often a blessing, so kept some older heads in (in Bower, McAlister and Renata).
I also don't think there are any obvious young options running about that could make the step up yet (because young hookers and props seem to get such few opportunities in Super compared to players in other positions). Pretty much everyone else in this squad I'd be fairly comfortable if they were given a run for the All Blacks at this stage, so tried to do a blend of old and new in the front row.
I think everyone else is 26 (Suafoa, Sotutu, Lam) or under.
Why does Brodie McAlister get rated so highly? He's never been a regular starter at SR level and is always injured. What is it, 40 games in 6 seasons and is 27?
For all the criticism Ricci Riccitelli gets, at least he's a regular at SR level and was arguably the best performing SR hooker this year (with Aumua).
I'm not Riccitelli's biggest fan over the years by any stretch, but he deserves to be ahead of McAlister that's for sure.
One of the most debated topics on here recently, if Riccitelli wore a red and black jersey, would that help his chances?
@African-Monkey Riccitelli should be with the ABs, and Bell should be playing these games. One is ready to play if injury strikes, and one is developing. Why they keep getting this backwards I don't know.
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@African-Monkey Riccitelli should be with the ABs, and Bell should be playing these games. One is ready to play if injury strikes, and one is developing. Why they keep getting this backwards I don't know.
Because the coaches think the AB team is a development squad and part of the Crusaders jobs for the boys club 
Goes back a long way, Toeava for example. I find it really frustrating because it's such an obvious solution to just change the budget so you can bring young players in to train with the squad without naming them as ABs.
It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.
It means if there is an injury in the squad you aren't forced to play someone who isn't ready.
You are still able to assess the young guys coming through.
@Landers92 said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@frugby is this a wish list or inside information?
It's a guess...
You’ve just said you have heard and now you’re saying it’s a guess. I’m slightly confused. You’re full squad is a guess or those Highlander names you’re saying you’ve heard are actually a guess?
Overall squad has heard is a guess. However, as I mention in the post, have heard that the Highlanders are expected Taylor, Haig and Withy to be named (not an exclusive list so doesn't exclude Ma'u etc.)
I don't know whether they know they are in, or quite what. Withy surprised me a little bit, because he is beating Segner effectively though then again we've seen this movie before where someone turned down Jason Ryan and got the cold shoulder (being cynical, though I do rate Withy, and think there is little between the two)
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@African-Monkey Riccitelli should be with the ABs, and Bell should be playing these games. One is ready to play if injury strikes, and one is developing. Why they keep getting this backwards I don't know.
I don't think the selectors think Riccitelli is up to the next level. Is his core game more rounded? Sure, but if RR played for the Crusaders and got picked, I can imagine people calling him another ordinary Crusader, one of Razor's boys etc.
@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:
I don't think the selectors think Riccitelli is up to the next level.
I'm not sure Taylor is either. Sure he is young but is just another under-sized hooker coming through the grades. Although I've never been a huge fan Slater does have some size to him, and is mobile.
@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@frugby is this a wish list or inside information?
It's a guess...
You’ve just said you have heard and now you’re saying it’s a guess. I’m slightly confused. You’re full squad is a guess or those Highlander names you’re saying you’ve heard are actually a guess?
Overall squad has heard is a guess. However, as I mention in the post, have heard that the Highlanders are expected Taylor, Haig and Withy to be named (not an exclusive list so doesn't exclude Ma'u etc.)
I don't know whether they know they are in, or quite what. Withy surprised me a little bit, because he is beating Segner effectively though then again we've seen this movie before where someone turned down Jason Ryan and got the cold shoulder (being cynical, though I do rate Withy, and think there is little between the two)
Ok, I will bite. Who is rumoured to have turned down Ryan now?
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@frugby is this a wish list or inside information?
It's a guess...
You’ve just said you have heard and now you’re saying it’s a guess. I’m slightly confused. You’re full squad is a guess or those Highlander names you’re saying you’ve heard are actually a guess?
Overall squad has heard is a guess. However, as I mention in the post, have heard that the Highlanders are expected Taylor, Haig and Withy to be named (not an exclusive list so doesn't exclude Ma'u etc.)
I don't know whether they know they are in, or quite what. Withy surprised me a little bit, because he is beating Segner effectively though then again we've seen this movie before where someone turned down Jason Ryan and got the cold shoulder (being cynical, though I do rate Withy, and think there is little between the two)
Ok, I will bite. Who is rumoured to have turned down Ryan now?
I've explained this before, but look at the initial reticence to Darry. Look at Sotutu. He's very much a trust-based guy. Let's be fair, Segner probably turned the Crusaders down to join the Blues just as Darry did.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:
I don't think the selectors think Riccitelli is up to the next level.
I'm not sure Taylor is either. Sure he is young but is just another under-sized hooker coming through the grades. Although I've never been a huge fan Slater does have some size to him, and is mobile.
I'm not sure Taylor is either, but they probably liken them to Dane Coles. Slater is someone who could have kicked on, but to do so really needed to be a nailed on starter. FWIW I think he could offer more than Riccitelli.
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.
Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.
Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.
The issue with Aki was Hansen selecting Francis Saili over him in 2013.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.
Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.
The issue with Aki was Hansen selecting Francis Saili over him in 2013.
That's appears to just be your personal preference, Aki didn't even start for the Chiefs in the finals games in 2013.
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.
Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.
Just a general point really: if you keep more guys in the AB frame, they are less likely to leave. Kids who are barely even deserving of a super starting spot yet are not likely to leave, and are not really of benefit to the AB squad. It's better to keep those guys, because you never know when the guys ahead of them are going to have a bad injury, form fall off a cliff, or go overseas themselves.
I don't think he was that far down though - who was ahead of him: Nonu, Francis, Malakai at most - and the latter 2 not very convincing?
@reprobate Obviously Andrew Horrell. 
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.
Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.
The issue with Aki was Hansen selecting Francis Saili over him in 2013.
That's appears to just be your personal preference, Aki didn't even start for the Chiefs in the finals games in 2013.
And Saili wasn't even starting for the Blues in 2013 when he got picked for the mid Super AB squad....
Lol, flying all that distance for just 2 games is such a waste of staff and resources... why would they not play more games? some players will be flying halfway around the world for grand total 20 mins of rugby off the bench, how is limited opportunities like this supposed to keep players in the country? Oh gee I'm not taking that overseas contract cause I get to play half a game for the All Blacks XV. Should probably be 4 games really.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks XV 2024:
Lol, flying all that distance for just 2 games is such a waste of staff and resources... why would they not play more games? some players will be flying halfway around the world for grand total 20 mins of rugby off the bench, how is limited opportunities like this supposed to keep players in the country? Oh gee I'm not taking that overseas contract cause I get to play half a game for the All Blacks XV. Should probably be 4 games really.
Suppose part of it comes down to being able to find competitive games. Portugal could have been fun, but that said reckon we'd still smoke em.
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.
Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.
Just a general point really: if you keep more guys in the AB frame, they are less likely to leave. Kids who are barely even deserving of a super starting spot yet are not likely to leave, and are not really of benefit to the AB squad. It's better to keep those guys, because you never know when the guys ahead of them are going to have a bad injury, form fall off a cliff, or go overseas themselves.
I don't think he was that far down though - who was ahead of him: Nonu, Francis, Malakai at most - and the latter 2 not very convincing?
Aki left because he wanted to, not because he wasn't apprenticing in the ABs, he was a second year Super player and he went solely for money. He didn't leave for international rugby because he could have immediately played for Samoa.
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.
Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.
Just a general point really: if you keep more guys in the AB frame, they are less likely to leave. Kids who are barely even deserving of a super starting spot yet are not likely to leave, and are not really of benefit to the AB squad. It's better to keep those guys, because you never know when the guys ahead of them are going to have a bad injury, form fall off a cliff, or go overseas themselves.
I don't think he was that far down though - who was ahead of him: Nonu, Francis, Malakai at most - and the latter 2 not very convincing?Aki left because he wanted to, not because he wasn't apprenticing in the ABs, he was a second year Super player and he went solely for money. He didn't leave for international rugby because he could have immediately played for Samoa.
he left for international, he was a project player, specifically signed with the intention of representing Ireland in the future. So money and internationally rugby
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.
Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.
The issue with Aki was Hansen selecting Francis Saili over him in 2013.
That's appears to just be your personal preference, Aki didn't even start for the Chiefs in the finals games in 2013.
And Saili wasn't even starting for the Blues in 2013 when he got picked for the mid Super AB squad....
Which doesn't make it the issue with Aki. It's just two players who weren't ready for the ABs only the one you don't like was selected.
@Machpants said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.
Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.
Just a general point really: if you keep more guys in the AB frame, they are less likely to leave. Kids who are barely even deserving of a super starting spot yet are not likely to leave, and are not really of benefit to the AB squad. It's better to keep those guys, because you never know when the guys ahead of them are going to have a bad injury, form fall off a cliff, or go overseas themselves.
I don't think he was that far down though - who was ahead of him: Nonu, Francis, Malakai at most - and the latter 2 not very convincing?Aki left because he wanted to, not because he wasn't apprenticing in the ABs, he was a second year Super player and he went solely for money. He didn't leave for international rugby because he could have immediately played for Samoa.
he left for international, he was a project player, specifically signed with the intention of representing Ireland in the future. So money and internationally rugby
Regardless, it wasn't not being brought into train with the ABs in 2013 that "made" him go. He's a bad example of the point being made.
@frugby said in All Blacks XV 2024:
Suppose part of it comes down to being able to find competitive games. Portugal could have been fun, but that said reckon we'd still smoke em.
The fact that the Georgia game will be played in France (where a lot of their players play club rugby) suggests this is the situation. RugbyPass says that England A is playing Australia A on Nov 18 so maybe they could have played some A teams. Hard to organise at late notice though with the NH club situation.
In the hypothetical world where Aki stayed in NZ, he doesn't crack the ABs until at least 2016, because he would have remained behind Smith, Nonu, SBW (who returned from league) and Fekitoa (who had just guided the Highlanders to the SR title).
In this hypothetical world, I reckon he possibly goes to the Blues because SBW was coming back, and Nonu had just left to the Hurricanes... or Tamanivalu didn't end up at the Chiefs (who bolted into the ABs).
All things considered, Aki possibly makes the ABs that year, considering ALB and Tamanivalu bolted in, but they were centres. I doubt he gets in ahead of Crotty or SBW, so in short, he probably still ends up leaving anyway.
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:
It helps keep the third choice guys happy and in the country which helps our depth and the quality of super rugby - we might have kept e.g. Bundee Aki.
Aki left when he was well down the depth chart. He's a poor example to use of a player we might have kept.
The issue with Aki was Hansen selecting Francis Saili over him in 2013.
That's appears to just be your personal preference, Aki didn't even start for the Chiefs in the finals games in 2013.
And Saili wasn't even starting for the Blues in 2013 when he got picked for the mid Super AB squad....
Which doesn't make it the issue with Aki. It's just two players who weren't ready for the ABs only the one you don't like was selected.
That's where we agree to disagree. I thought Aki had shown enough to be selected.
Aki was nowhere near the All Blacks when he left. I don't think he would have ever made the team.
@African-Monkey Brodie McAlister was excellent fo the Crusaders in 2023, showed all the attributes needed to be an All Black (not to mention the physical size too). It's only since then that he's had injury issues.
Aki would have matured late, all the physical gifts there already and the subtleties would have come later AKA Nonu.
I’d take him in an absolute heartbeat over Jordie.
@MN5 said in All Blacks XV 2024:
Aki would have matured late, all the physical gifts there already and the subtleties would have come later AKA Nonu.
I’d take him in an absolute heartbeat over Jordie.
Nice 20:20 hindsight
@Machpants said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks XV 2024:
Aki would have matured late, all the physical gifts there already and the subtleties would have come later AKA Nonu.
I’d take him in an absolute heartbeat over Jordie.
Nice 20:20 hindsight
I woulda said the same in 2017
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks XV 2024:
If the All Blacks XV were being selected with an eye to the future, as opposed to just the current 'next best' squad, then I think we'd see something along the lines of:
Hookers (2): Brodie McAlister, Jack Taylor
Props (5): George Bower, Xavier Numia, Kauvaka Kauivelata, Marcel Renata, Saula Ma'u
Locks (3): Josh Lord, Fabian Holland, Zach Gallagher
Loose forwards (7): Oliver Haig, Malachi Wrampling, Cameron Suafoa, Peter Lakai, Sean Withy, Hoskins Sotutu, Simon Parker
Halfbacks (2): Noah Hotham, Folau Fakatava
First fives (1): Josh Jacomb
Centres (4): AJ Lam, Quinn Tupaea, Dallas McLeod, Gideon Wrampling
Wings (3): Kini Naholo, Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens, Emoni Narawa
Fullbacks (2): Ruben Love, Zarn Sullivan, Chay FihakiA couple of slightly more experienced guys in there but largely forward-thinking.
But suspect there'll be some names like Cullen Grace in there.
I think that depends entirely on how far into the future you're looking.
In my eyes the form players of SR who:
should be the ones selected. Even if the AB XV is considered a development squad, it requires guys with experience to mentor the younger guys and offer an incentive in case injury/ form strikes those selected before them.
We can't just keep throwing young guys in the deep end hoping that exposure is beneficial.
You need an experienced player to captain the team. There isn't even that many provincial captains amongst the players listed. Suafoa might not be guaranteed a start and Christie would be replaced.
