@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@cgrant said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Attisogbe is a gun. Better than Penaud IMO. Best winger in France behind LBB.
I agree. I think he's fantastic. I wish we had someone like him.
I'm sure he is immensely talented, but that highlights video didn't exactly make me think he's something we don't already have. One of the highlights was him head-highing someone.
@WoodysRFC said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@cgrant said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Attisogbe is a gun. Better than Penaud IMO. Best winger in France behind LBB.
I agree. I think he's fantastic. I wish we had someone like him.
I'm sure he is immensely talented, but that highlights video didn't exactly make me think he's something we don't already have. One of the highlights was him head-highing someone.
This is not a good video. He has been outstanding during the Top 14 and and the few games he played in blue. He is class and has speed to burn, more speed than the 2024 AB wingers.
A forgotten name for the All Blacks midfield below...
Players to achieve at least 50% carry dominance from at least 150 carries into contact:
Josua Tuisova (62% from 172)
Beka Gorgadze (56% from 183)
Leicester Fianga’anuku (53% from 186)
Elia Canakaivata (51% from 152)
@Wurzel I haven't forgotten Big Leicester.
I haven't seen that he's re-signed with the Mako yet (or any other bunch of poaching NPC feckers)?
That doesn't mean he hasn't - someone who watches these things more closely may be able to tell me - but, to be eligible for the ABs this year I think he has to be signed up for NPC?
In any case they don't need to rush him into the midfield - if he were to appear immediately, I reckon there's more opportunity as a wing. But, no need to rush him in there either.
In any case, I'd be amazed if Razor hasn't been watching him closely on the telly.
Here's my guess vs the OP. I reckon there will be a couple of bolters, but I'm not going to try to pick them.
@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
PROPS:
Tamaiti Williams (Crusaders)
Ethan de Groot (Highlanders)
George Bower (Crusaders)Ollie Norris (Chiefs)
Tyrel Lomax (Hurricanes)
Fletcher Newell (Crusaders)
Pasilio Tosi (Hurricanes)HOOKERS:
Codie Taylor (Crusaders)
Samisoni Taukei'aho (Chiefs)
George Bell (Crusaders) (Aumua if fit, but if not - Bell)LOCKS:
Scott Barrett (c) (Crusaders)
Tupou Vaa'i (Chiefs)
Patrick Tuipulotu (Blues)
Fabian Holland (Highlanders)LOOSE FORWARDS:
Ethan Blackadder (Crusaders)
Samipeni Finau (Chiefs)
Ardie Savea (Moana Pasifika)
Peter Lakai (Hurricanes)
Dalton Papalii (Blues)
Wallace Sititi (Chiefs)
Christian Lio-Willie (Crusaders)Luke Jacobson (Chiefs)HALFBACKS:
Cameron Roigard (Hurricanes)
Cortez Ratima (Chiefs)
Noah Hotham (Crusaders)FIRST FIVES:
Damian McKenzie (Chiefs)
Beauden Barrett (Blues)MIDFIELDERS:
Jordie Barrett (Hurricanes)
Quinn Tupaea (Chiefs)
Rieko Ioane (Blues)
Billy Proctor (Hurricanes)
David Havili (Crusaders)OUTSIDE BACKS:
Caleb Clarke (Blues)
AJ Lam (Blues)
Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens (Highlanders)Leroy Carter (Chiefs)
Sevu Reece (Crusaders)
Will Jordan (Crusaders)
Ruben Love (Hurricanes)Unavailable due to injury: Asafo Aumua (Hurricanes), Simon Parker (Chiefs), Anton Lienert-Brown (Chiefs), Caleb Tangitau (Highlanders)
I think they'll pick the younger Norris as opposed to the known quantity Bower.
Far from beyond the realms of possibility that CLW gets picked - he's been playing well, but I think there's enough No. 8s already - and Jacobson's utility value and experience probably gets him in.
As per last year, I think Dave Havili is a nice to have, but not a must have. They need Tupaea to effectively cover both midfield positions (Lam can do the same if QT were to be injured) and ALB and Big Leicester likely to enter the frame later in the season.
Picking AJ gives an opportunity to make the bolder, but probably more risky pick of Carter over Narawa - but, that could easily go the other way.
@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Wurzel I haven't forgotten Big Leicester.
I haven't seen that he's re-signed with the Mako yet (or any other bunch of poaching NPC feckers)?
That doesn't mean he hasn't - someone who watches these things more closely may be able to tell me - but, to be eligible for the ABs this year I think he has to be signed up for NPC?
In any case they don't need to rush him into the midfield - if he were to appear immediately, I reckon there's more opportunity as a wing. But, no need to rush him in there either.
In any case, I'd be amazed if Razor hasn't been watching him closely on the telly.
Yes Leicester has signed with Ta$man .
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Turns out Fihaki has missed the most tackles this season of any back from the NZ teams squads who played in the semis
So theoretically his work on both sides of the ball won’t be good enough…
Will Jordie usurp the NZ based midfielders or will playing in SR be counted in the favour of the rest. By chance.
@Gunner said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Turns out Fihaki has missed the most tackles this season of any back from the NZ teams squads who played in the semis
So theoretically his work on both sides of the ball won’t be good enough…
Or just his work either side of ball isn't good enough.
I like the idea of Leicester into the squad at some point this year. What will be of interest to me is who makes way for him.
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I like the idea of Leicester into the squad at some point this year. What will be of interest to me is who makes way for him.
Impact off the bench at wing or 13 I imagine
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I like the idea of Leicester into the squad at some point this year. What will be of interest to me is who makes way for him.
I love ALB but I would move off him for Leicester (assuming he comes back and looks good). LF is a midfield / wing which is the main role we get from ALB.
I'm wondering whether Tupaea is going to get a go - a specialist 2nd five in squad is hard unless he is the starter.
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I like the idea of Leicester into the squad at some point this year. What will be of interest to me is who makes way for him.
I love ALB but I would move off him for Leicester (assuming he comes back and looks good). LF is a midfield / wing which is the main role we get from ALB.
I'm wondering whether Tupaea is going to get a go - a specialist 2nd five in squad is hard unless he is the starter.
ALB would drop out for me
Main difference with Fainga'anuku is his defensive accuracy. When he was at the Crusaders it was between 55% - 75%. He's bumped that up to 75.6% at Toulon this year. It's an improvement.
But if you look at the other midfield contenders he'd be near the bottom in Super Rugby:
Midfield Players by Tackle Success
93.3% Anton Lienert-Brown
91.3% Billy Proctor
91.3% Braydon Ennor
89.1% AJ Lam
88.7% Xavi Taele
88.4% Quinn Tupaea
86.1% Riley Higgins
85.9% Peter Umaga-Jensen
84.7% Levi Aumua
83.1% David Havili
83.0% Bailyn Sullivan
80.6% Rieko Ioane
80.0% Daniel Rona
80.0% Gideon Wrampling
79.7% Tanielu Tele'a
78.8% Lalomilo Lalomilo
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Main difference with Fainga'anuku is his defensive accuracy. When he was at the Crusaders it was between 55% - 75%. He's bumped that up to 75.6% at Toulon this year. It's an improvement.
But if you look at the other midfield contenders he'd be near the bottom in Super Rugby:
Midfield Players by Tackle Success
93.3% Anton Lienert-Brown
91.3% Billy Proctor
91.3% Braydon Ennor
89.1% AJ Lam
88.7% Xavi Taele
88.4% Quinn Tupaea
86.1% Riley Higgins
85.9% Peter Umaga-Jensen
84.7% Levi Aumua
83.1% David Havili
83.0% Bailyn Sullivan
80.6% Rieko Ioane
80.0% Daniel Rona
80.0% Gideon Wrampling
79.7% Tanielu Tele'a
78.8% Lalomilo Lalomilo
I thought Rieko's tackle success would be higher.
I took his defense to be one of his strengths.
@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Tackles success not always the best way to measure how good a defender someone is.
It's not the only way but when you're at the bottom it's not good no matter what way you spin it.
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Tackles success not always the best way to measure how good a defender someone is.
It's not the only way but when you're at the bottom it's not good no matter what way you spin it.
Fainga'anuku will be in the squad as soon as possible Razor got him back for a reason and he was involved in getting Leicester back.
@Kiwiwomble said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@brodean do you have the stats for Tavatavanawai?
Yes. I'd filtered him out by mistake because his association was listed with Fiji.
93.3% Anton Lienert-Brown
91.3% Billy Proctor
91.3% Braydon Ennor
89.1% AJ Lam
88.7% Xavi Taele
88.4% Quinn Tupaea
87.0% Timoci Tavatavanawai
86.1% Riley Higgins
85.9% Peter Umaga-Jensen
84.7% Levi Aumua
83.1% David Havili
83.0% Bailyn Sullivan
80.6% Rieko Ioane
80.0% Daniel Rona
80.0% Gideon Wrampling
79.7% Tanielu Tele'a
78.8% Lalomilo Lalomilo
66.7% Corey Evans
65.7% Sam Gilbert
@Chris said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Tackles success not always the best way to measure how good a defender someone is.
It's not the only way but when you're at the bottom it's not good no matter what way you spin it.
Fainga'anuku will be in the squad as soon as possible Razor got him back for a reason and he was involved in getting Leicester back.
Yup I'm not debating that. That's obvious. I'm doubtful it will be in the midfield though. There is a reason why Razor preferred him on the wing and I believe part of it is his defence.
Someone said they would move ALB out for Fainga'anuku. While Fainga'anuku is an exceptional attacker, ALB is an exceptional defender. I'm not sure what it is this year but last year ALB had the highest amount of try assists of any NZ midfielder in SRP.
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Chris said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Tackles success not always the best way to measure how good a defender someone is.
It's not the only way but when you're at the bottom it's not good no matter what way you spin it.
Fainga'anuku will be in the squad as soon as possible Razor got him back for a reason and he was involved in getting Leicester back.
Yup I'm not debating that. That's obvious. I'm doubtful it will be in the midfield though. There is a reason why Razor preferred him on the wing and I believe part of it is his defence.
Someone said they would move ALB out for Fainga'anuku. While Fainga'anuku is an exceptional attacker, ALB is an exceptional defender. I'm not sure what it is this year but last year ALB had the highest amount of try assists of any midfielder.
I don't think ALB will be moved out he is highly rated by the coaching group.
Leicester maybe Telea's replacement which may mean Telea will be selected for the French series.
@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@brodean Potentially misleading statistic if someone defends a massively wide channel.
It can potentially be misleading but he's at the bottom and he was at the bottom every year in NZ too.
Obviously a single stat doesn't paint a whole picture, but you have to start somewhere, as @sparky says there might be a reason...but its a starting point. 12's wouldnt have to cover the same width as a 13 normally so Gilbert couldnt use the same excuse as Reiko ...so when judging Gilbert we're a step closer to "not the best defender"
@Frank said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Main difference with Fainga'anuku is his defensive accuracy. When he was at the Crusaders it was between 55% - 75%. He's bumped that up to 75.6% at Toulon this year. It's an improvement.
But if you look at the other midfield contenders he'd be near the bottom in Super Rugby:
Midfield Players by Tackle Success
93.3% Anton Lienert-Brown
91.3% Billy Proctor
91.3% Braydon Ennor
89.1% AJ Lam
88.7% Xavi Taele
88.4% Quinn Tupaea
86.1% Riley Higgins
85.9% Peter Umaga-Jensen
84.7% Levi Aumua
83.1% David Havili
83.0% Bailyn Sullivan
80.6% Rieko Ioane
80.0% Daniel Rona
80.0% Gideon Wrampling
79.7% Tanielu Tele'a
78.8% Lalomilo LalomiloI thought Rieko's tackle success would be higher.
I took his defense to be one of his strengths.
Rieko's numbers would be down given the ground he makes to even attempt covering tackles. While laughably those stats suggest Proctor is a better defender and we all know that's not true.
@antipodean A sort of "Glenn Phillips Effect"?
Glenn drops quite a few catches because he gets his hands to chances other people don't.
@antipodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
we all know that's not true.
Im not sure we do...
@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@antipodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
we all know that's not true.
Im not sure we do...
In the kingdom of the blind
@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@antipodean A sort of "Glenn Phillips Effect"?
Glenn drops quite a few catches because he gets his hands to chances other people don't.
GP also drops a bizarre number of sitters despite being one of the most athletic fielders to step onto a cricket field
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Tackles success not always the best way to measure how good a defender someone is.
It's not the only way but when you're at the bottom it's not good no matter what way you spin it.
Not necessarily. Need to also consider how many tackles are being attempted, and how bad these missed tackles are. You also need to factor in, that if you don't attempt a tackle, you don't miss one either - so there is no stat which tells you a guy makes shit defensive reads.
Ioane attempted 108 tackles, 7.4% of which were dominant (which I would say is relevant for a midfielder).
Lienert-Brown has only attempted 30, 3.3% of which were dominant.
Proctor has only attempted 67 and is actually tackling at 86.6%, but is high for dominant tackles at 14.9% - but again, Proctor only played a handful of games, with only 2/7 being derbies (including one against the Highlanders)
Ennor 38 attempts, with high dominant tackles
Lam, Taelea, Tupaea, Higgins, Umaga-Jensen & Havili are all second-fives, so in theory are defending less space - shouldn't be comparing them on pure tackle success rate.
I think the biggest praise you could pay to Rieko, is the Blues conceded the least tries of anyone - that doesn't happen if your centre can't defend.
Midfield Players including overseas:
Tackle Success
93.3% Anton Lienert-Brown
91.3% Billy Proctor
91.3% Braydon Ennor
90.0% Jordie Barrett
89.1% AJ Lam
88.7% Xavi Taele
88.4% Quinn Tupaea
87.0% Timoci Tavatavanawai
86.1% Riley Higgins
85.9% Peter Umaga-Jensen
84.7% Levi Aumua
83.1% David Havili
83.0% Bailyn Sullivan
80.6% Rieko Ioane
80.0% Daniel Rona
80.0% Gideon Wrampling
79.7% Tanielu Tele'a
78.8% Lalomilo Lalomilo
75.6% Leicester Fainga'anuku
69.2% Tamati Tua
Tackles Per 80 Minutes
18.82 David Havili
13.02 Xavi Taele
12.45 Lalomilo Lalomilo
11.85 Quinn Tupaea
11.4 Levi Aumua
10.65 Gideon Wrampling
10.31 Billy Proctor
10.0 Jordie Barrett
9.93 Riley Higgins
9.65 Timoci Tavatavanawai
9.41 AJ Lam
9.04 Peter Umaga-Jensen
8.91 Bailyn Sullivan
8.12 Tanielu Tele'a
8.03 Daniel Rona
7.26 Rieko Ioane
7.19 Anton Lienert-Brown
7.16 Tamati Tua
6.89 Braydon Ennor
5.7 Leicester Fainga'anuku
And often a missed tackle can be that someone else mis-read the line or missed thier tackle and you are wrong footed trying to cover thier miss.
Stats are great, but there are always variables.