England v All Blacks

@KiwiMurph

And, to tie it all together, we don't have a clear system of play.

I believe it all started going downhill once the control of play was handed over to players who rely on seeing 'pictures' and 'opportunities'. There is a lot of fake-looking space on a rugby field, especially against a rush defense, and these guys can't get themselves out of the shit once they get in it because they don't have systems to fall back on.

I'm reminded of how military battles have been won by careful planning where all parties know what to do and when to do it - NCOs and soldiers themselves are entrusted to make decisions, but everyone is aligned on strategy and tactics. The ABs haven't really played with a strong strategic hand for quite some time - although it did improve once Schmidt joined and nearly helped us steal the WC.

I wonder whether we need a modern AB rugby version of Major General Sir Leslie Morshead - an absolute pain in the ass who drilled his men relentlessly in a strategic pattern until they could respond automatically and win using their individual skills without his of officer's instruction.

Who in Razor's team has that role? If everyone is turning responsibility to the players, that only works if they are prepared enough and there is sufficient clarity.

@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:

The obvious hard calls are:
BB retires,
Taylor becomes captain,
Roigard vice captain,
Jordan goes to wing,
I'd put JB at 15
QT, LF mid field,
DMac 10 and kicks

Ardie goes to bench.

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:

Who does everyone want to see start at 10 next week for Beau-Done Barrett?

I think it’s time to give Ruben some love. We don’t learn anything starting DMac.

I don't want Love exposed to starting. DMac to start, Reuben to get at least 30 minutes at either 10 or as a 15 double pivot. The boy needs to play, and 15 should be just as up for grabs as 10. WJ can move to wing and be effective

Worried about exposed to starting? Against Wales? Has conservative Razor infiltrated your account?

Hahaha. He's barely had any rugby, he's shown promise for the Canes at 10.

No shit, Razor hasn’t selected him.

@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:

Who does everyone want to see start at 10 next week for Beau-Done Barrett?

I think it’s time to give Ruben some love. We don’t learn anything starting DMac.

I don't want Love exposed to starting. DMac to start, Reuben to get at least 30 minutes at either 10 or as a 15 double pivot. The boy needs to play, and 15 should be just as up for grabs as 10. WJ can move to wing and be effective

Worried about exposed to starting? Against Wales? Has conservative Razor infiltrated your account?

Fozzie used to do stuff like that. Put a reserve on to start with a bunch of other reserves, and watch them fail

@gt12 said in England Vs All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph

And, to tie it all together, we don't have a clear system of play.

I believe it all started going downhill once the control of play was handed over to players who rely on seeing 'pictures' and 'opportunities'. There is a lot of fake-looking space on a rugby field, especially against a rush defense, and these guys can't get themselves out of the shit once they get in it because they don't have systems to fall back on.

I'm reminded of how military battles have been won by careful planning where all parties know what to do and when to do it - NCOs and soldiers themselves are entrusted to make decisions, but everyone is aligned on strategy and tactics. The ABs haven't really played with a strong strategic hand for quite some time - although it did improve once Schmidt joined and nearly helped us steal the WC.

I wonder whether we need a modern AB rugby version of Major General Sir Leslie Morshead - an absolute pain in the ass who drilled his men relentlessly in a strategic pattern until they could respond automatically and win using their individual skills without his of officer's instruction.

Who in Razor's team has that role? If everyone is turning responsibility to the players, that only works if they are prepared enough and there is sufficient clarity.

And yet, sometimes we seem to be very rigid, failing to see and take advantage of opportunities that arise during open play. It's all very puzzling

The absolute state of this presser.

Body language and messaging is abysmal.

Insipid. The pair of them.

LF for me has been very much hit and miss. He does make things happen but he is also a very slopply player in defence, in his handling, and in his discipline. He's arguably the most inaccurate back in the squad. I think whether good outweighs the bad is up for debate.

Knew the result, read the thread, then watched the game. Blimey. Never seen a more apathetic AB team. England dominated the entire game. Won nearly every contact, ABs constantly beaten in the tackle and at the breakdown. Wow. ABs don’t look fit enough - lazy off the ball, can’t remember ever saying that before.

12-0 down but still felt like we were the better side. Ben Earl was immense, Pepper was great. But it wasn’t about individuals, they won every aspect of the game, contact after contact.

As for England, they still don’t look great structure wise but bugger me they smashed the ABs all over the park.

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

Knew the result, read the thread, then watched the game. Blimey. Never seen a more apathetic AB team. England dominated the entire game. Won nearly every contact, ABs constantly beaten in the tackle and at the breakdown. Wow. ABs don’t look fit enough - lazy off the ball, can’t remember ever saying that before.

12-0 down but still felt like we were the better side. Ben Earl was immense, Pepper was great. But it wasn’t about individuals, they won every aspect of the game, contact after contact.

As for England, they still don’t look great structure wise but bugger me they smashed the ABs all over the park.

Enjoy the win mate, your boys deserved it

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

Knew the result, read the thread, then watched the game. Blimey. Never seen a more apathetic AB team. England dominated the entire game. Won nearly every contact, ABs constantly beaten in the tackle and at the breakdown. Wow. ABs don’t look fit enough - lazy off the ball, can’t remember ever saying that before.

12-0 down but still felt like we were the better side. Ben Earl was immense, Pepper was great. But it wasn’t about individuals, they won every aspect of the game, contact after contact.

While I take your point generally, Englands lineout was woeful and any half decent team could have won the game on their lineout failure alone.

Lineout was the only area we got smashed, but every time it didn’t seem to result in much as we made metres in defence and attack one out. It’s genuinely weird, I’m not celebrating it, just gobsmacked

Scott Barrett on the yellow card "I think its fair".

Razor on the yellow card "its cynical isnt it".

You pair of absolute fucking twats.

I am feeling quite disillusioned with the game right now.

Every time there is a highly anticipated test between Tier 1 sides, I am paranoid that it will be marred by cards that change the course of the game. And more often than not, that is what is happening these days, and it makes for a terrible product.

When you send a player from the field in a game like rugby, arguably the most physically demanding sport in the world, you fundamentally change the trajectory of the match. And for at least 95% of those matches, you change it in favour of the team that ends up with the numerical advantage, which is just self evident.

For this match, my point is not that the ABs would have won if it wasn't for that completely insane YC to Taylor, lord knows this current AB side have well documented (on here at least) issues with coaching, selection and poor periods of play. It's that the ref fundamentally changed the course of the game with that decision, so we simply don't know what the outcome would have been if it had been left to the players to decide. I'm sorry but that's a horseshit product to watch.

The first half was wonderful; England came out of the blocks at a million miles per hour, we weathered the storm then went bang bang in typical AB fashion to take the lead. Then some silly mistakes from the ABs allowed England the opportunity to get back into the match, which they took in superb English fashion with some beautifully executed drop goals to get back within a point. That was a great half of footy to watch and I couldn't wait for half time to be over to see how it played out in the 2nd 40.

Then what happens? The ref and TMO completely ruin the game by sending Codie off the field, making us play a man down for 10 minutes. That's a BIG deal in a game like rugby at the top level, and England made us pay for that by scoring 14 unanswered points and taking all of the momentum (which is hugely important in a dynamic game like rugby).

If they are going to continue to use cards in this way, then it has to be an absolute last resort. Genuine thuggish behaviour, constant cheating at every ruck (far more than what England got a YC for), but really, there just has to be a better way doesn't there? Could they not look at how other sports do it? Administering appropriate punishment to thuggish behaviour or constant cheating without completely ruining the spectacle?

As soon as that YC was given I actually just switched it off in disgust. Yet another fucking game ruined by card obsessed officials. Then I decided to watch to the end just to see if England would choke or not, and to their credit they played very well in the 2nd 40 to close the match out despite their own YC. England are my second team so I am not upset to see them do well, but the game became pretty meaningless to me post the YC as the ref had completely changed the course of the match, again.

I got up at 4am to watch a ref fuck up what was a wonderful game of rugby. I can obviously live with refs making mistakes, that's part and parcel of being human refereeing a fast paced game. But when those mistakes include sending a player from the field, it ruins the game.

I will not be getting up for the Welsh test, and in fact I think I am going to take some time out from watching and commenting on rugby. Nice timing for me with the cricket season starting, but I am just about done with this game until they sort out this absolute mess with cards.

@brodean said in England Vs All Blacks:

LF for me has been very much hit and miss. He does make things happen but he is also a very slopply player in defence, in his handling, and in his discipline. He's arguably the most inaccurate back in the squad. I think whether good outweighs the bad is up for debate.

Because of how Razor has picked the squad - the alternatives dont offer much. Reece, Rieko and ALB are all past it. Which begs the question why they are in the squad at all.

@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:

I am feeling quite disillusioned with the game right now.

Every time there is a highly anticipated test between Tier 1 sides, I am paranoid that it will be marred by cards that change the course of the game. And more often than not, that is what is happening these days, and it makes for a terrible product.

When you send a player from the field in a game like rugby, arguably the most physically demanding sport in the world, you fundamentally change the trajectory of the match. And for at least 95% of those matches, you change it in favour of the team that ends up with the numerical advantage, which is just self evident.

For this match, my point is not that the ABs would have won if it wasn't for that completely insane YC to Taylor, lord knows this current AB side have well documented (on here at least) issues with coaching, selection and poor periods of play. It's that the ref fundamentally changed the course of the game with that decision, so we simply don't know what the outcome would have been if it had been left to the players to decide. I'm sorry but that's a horseshit product to watch.

The first half was wonderful; England came out of the blocks at a million miles per hour, we weathered the storm then went bang bang in typical AB fashion to take the lead. Then some silly mistakes from the ABs allowed England the opportunity to get back into the match, which they took in superb English fashion with some beautifully executed drop goals to get back within a point. That was a great half of footy to watch and I couldn't wait for half time to be over to see how it played out in the 2nd 40.

Then what happens? The ref and TMO completely ruin the game by sending Codie off the field, making us play a man down for 10 minutes. That's a BIG deal in a game like rugby at the top level, and England made us pay for that by scoring 14 unanswered points and taking all of the momentum (which is hugely important in a dynamic game like rugby).

If they are going to continue to use cards in this way, then it has to be an absolute last resort. Genuine thuggish behaviour, constant cheating at every ruck (far more than what England got a YC for), but really, there just has to be a better way doesn't there? Could they not look at how other sports do it? Administering appropriate punishment to thuggish behaviour or constant cheating without completely ruining the spectacle?

As soon as that YC was given I actually just switched it off in disgust. Yet another fucking game ruined by card obsessed officials. Then I decided to watch to the end just to see if England would choke or not, and to their credit they played very well in the 2nd 40 to close the match out despite their own YC. England are my second team so I am not upset to see them do well, but the game became pretty meaningless to me post the YC as the ref had completely changed the course of the match, again.

I got up at 4am to watch a ref fuck up what was a wonderful game of rugby. I can obviously live with refs making mistakes, that's part and parcel of being human refereeing a fast paced game. But when those mistakes include sending a player from the field, it ruins the game.

I will not be getting up for the Welsh test, and in fact I think I am going to take some time out from watching and commenting on rugby. Nice timing for me with the cricket season starting, but I am just about done with this game until they sort out this absolute mess with cards.

Well said.

It's a double whammy, or maybe correlation is causation, but the Allblacks decline has coincided with the Sport regressing into this current shit show.

It's borderline unwatchable (when I hear "check check" I grit my teeth), and the RWC final had me punching walls.

Im absolutely sick of it.

@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:

I am feeling quite disillusioned with the game right now.

Every time there is a highly anticipated test between Tier 1 sides, I am paranoid that it will be marred by cards that change the course of the game. And more often than not, that is what is happening these days, and it makes for a terrible product.

When you send a player from the field in a game like rugby, arguably the most physically demanding sport in the world, you fundamentally change the trajectory of the match. And for at least 95% of those matches, you change it in favour of the team that ends up with the numerical advantage, which is just self evident.

For this match, my point is not that the ABs would have won if it wasn't for that completely insane YC to Taylor, lord knows this current AB side have well documented (on here at least) issues with coaching, selection and poor periods of play. It's that the ref fundamentally changed the course of the game with that decision, so we simply don't know what the outcome would have been if it had been left to the players to decide. I'm sorry but that's a horseshit product to watch.

The first half was wonderful; England came out of the blocks at a million miles per hour, we weathered the storm then went bang bang in typical AB fashion to take the lead. Then some silly mistakes from the ABs allowed England the opportunity to get back into the match, which they took in superb English fashion with some beautifully executed drop goals to get back within a point. That was a great half of footy to watch and I couldn't wait for half time to be over to see how it played out in the 2nd 40.

Then what happens? The ref and TMO completely ruin the game by sending Codie off the field, making us play a man down for 10 minutes. That's a BIG deal in a game like rugby at the top level, and England made us pay for that by scoring 14 unanswered points and taking all of the momentum (which is hugely important in a dynamic game like rugby).

If they are going to continue to use cards in this way, then it has to be an absolute last resort. Genuine thuggish behaviour, constant cheating at every ruck (far more than what England got a YC for), but really, there just has to be a better way doesn't there? Could they not look at how other sports do it? Administering appropriate punishment to thuggish behaviour or constant cheating without completely ruining the spectacle?

As soon as that YC was given I actually just switched it off in disgust. Yet another fucking game ruined by card obsessed officials. Then I decided to watch to the end just to see if England would choke or not, and to their credit they played very well in the 2nd 40 to close the match out despite their own YC. England are my second team so I am not upset to see them do well, but the game became pretty meaningless to me post the YC as the ref had completely changed the course of the match, again.

I got up at 4am to watch a ref fuck up what was a wonderful game of rugby. I can obviously live with refs making mistakes, that's part and parcel of being human refereeing a fast paced game. But when those mistakes include sending a player from the field, it ruins the game.

I will not be getting up for the Welsh test, and in fact I think I am going to take some time out from watching and commenting on rugby. Nice timing for me with the cricket season starting, but I am just about done with this game until they sort out this absolute mess with cards.

The yellow was dubious, but it wasn’t definitive. Refereeing was a bit all over the place, as it always will be, but it’s very very clear watching this game that you weren’t the better side.

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:

I am feeling quite disillusioned with the game right now.

Every time there is a highly anticipated test between Tier 1 sides, I am paranoid that it will be marred by cards that change the course of the game. And more often than not, that is what is happening these days, and it makes for a terrible product.

When you send a player from the field in a game like rugby, arguably the most physically demanding sport in the world, you fundamentally change the trajectory of the match. And for at least 95% of those matches, you change it in favour of the team that ends up with the numerical advantage, which is just self evident.

For this match, my point is not that the ABs would have won if it wasn't for that completely insane YC to Taylor, lord knows this current AB side have well documented (on here at least) issues with coaching, selection and poor periods of play. It's that the ref fundamentally changed the course of the game with that decision, so we simply don't know what the outcome would have been if it had been left to the players to decide. I'm sorry but that's a horseshit product to watch.

The first half was wonderful; England came out of the blocks at a million miles per hour, we weathered the storm then went bang bang in typical AB fashion to take the lead. Then some silly mistakes from the ABs allowed England the opportunity to get back into the match, which they took in superb English fashion with some beautifully executed drop goals to get back within a point. That was a great half of footy to watch and I couldn't wait for half time to be over to see how it played out in the 2nd 40.

Then what happens? The ref and TMO completely ruin the game by sending Codie off the field, making us play a man down for 10 minutes. That's a BIG deal in a game like rugby at the top level, and England made us pay for that by scoring 14 unanswered points and taking all of the momentum (which is hugely important in a dynamic game like rugby).

If they are going to continue to use cards in this way, then it has to be an absolute last resort. Genuine thuggish behaviour, constant cheating at every ruck (far more than what England got a YC for), but really, there just has to be a better way doesn't there? Could they not look at how other sports do it? Administering appropriate punishment to thuggish behaviour or constant cheating without completely ruining the spectacle?

As soon as that YC was given I actually just switched it off in disgust. Yet another fucking game ruined by card obsessed officials. Then I decided to watch to the end just to see if England would choke or not, and to their credit they played very well in the 2nd 40 to close the match out despite their own YC. England are my second team so I am not upset to see them do well, but the game became pretty meaningless to me post the YC as the ref had completely changed the course of the match, again.

I got up at 4am to watch a ref fuck up what was a wonderful game of rugby. I can obviously live with refs making mistakes, that's part and parcel of being human refereeing a fast paced game. But when those mistakes include sending a player from the field, it ruins the game.

I will not be getting up for the Welsh test, and in fact I think I am going to take some time out from watching and commenting on rugby. Nice timing for me with the cricket season starting, but I am just about done with this game until they sort out this absolute mess with cards.

The yellow was dubious, but it wasn’t definitive. Refereeing was a bit all over the place, as it always will be, but it’s very very clear watching this game that you weren’t the better side.

None of my post was about whether the ABs were the better side, or even deserved to win, so I'm not sure why you have commented on that. And I actually thought the ref did a great job overall.

The TLDR of my post is that if we use cards the way we do today, it leaves it open to the ref making a single mistake and ruining the game as a result. That's not even fair on the ref, let alone the players and paying fans. It's absurd.

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:

I am feeling quite disillusioned with the game right now.

Every time there is a highly anticipated test between Tier 1 sides, I am paranoid that it will be marred by cards that change the course of the game. And more often than not, that is what is happening these days, and it makes for a terrible product.

When you send a player from the field in a game like rugby, arguably the most physically demanding sport in the world, you fundamentally change the trajectory of the match. And for at least 95% of those matches, you change it in favour of the team that ends up with the numerical advantage, which is just self evident.

For this match, my point is not that the ABs would have won if it wasn't for that completely insane YC to Taylor, lord knows this current AB side have well documented (on here at least) issues with coaching, selection and poor periods of play. It's that the ref fundamentally changed the course of the game with that decision, so we simply don't know what the outcome would have been if it had been left to the players to decide. I'm sorry but that's a horseshit product to watch.

The first half was wonderful; England came out of the blocks at a million miles per hour, we weathered the storm then went bang bang in typical AB fashion to take the lead. Then some silly mistakes from the ABs allowed England the opportunity to get back into the match, which they took in superb English fashion with some beautifully executed drop goals to get back within a point. That was a great half of footy to watch and I couldn't wait for half time to be over to see how it played out in the 2nd 40.

Then what happens? The ref and TMO completely ruin the game by sending Codie off the field, making us play a man down for 10 minutes. That's a BIG deal in a game like rugby at the top level, and England made us pay for that by scoring 14 unanswered points and taking all of the momentum (which is hugely important in a dynamic game like rugby).

If they are going to continue to use cards in this way, then it has to be an absolute last resort. Genuine thuggish behaviour, constant cheating at every ruck (far more than what England got a YC for), but really, there just has to be a better way doesn't there? Could they not look at how other sports do it? Administering appropriate punishment to thuggish behaviour or constant cheating without completely ruining the spectacle?

As soon as that YC was given I actually just switched it off in disgust. Yet another fucking game ruined by card obsessed officials. Then I decided to watch to the end just to see if England would choke or not, and to their credit they played very well in the 2nd 40 to close the match out despite their own YC. England are my second team so I am not upset to see them do well, but the game became pretty meaningless to me post the YC as the ref had completely changed the course of the match, again.

I got up at 4am to watch a ref fuck up what was a wonderful game of rugby. I can obviously live with refs making mistakes, that's part and parcel of being human refereeing a fast paced game. But when those mistakes include sending a player from the field, it ruins the game.

I will not be getting up for the Welsh test, and in fact I think I am going to take some time out from watching and commenting on rugby. Nice timing for me with the cricket season starting, but I am just about done with this game until they sort out this absolute mess with cards.

The yellow was dubious, but it wasn’t definitive. Refereeing was a bit all over the place, as it always will be, but it’s very very clear watching this game that you weren’t the better side.

The best teams dont always win. You can be on the ropes and get a plucky win.

What no quarter is saying is that the butterfly effect of these frivolous cards is changing the course of history and we will never really know.

It didn’t ruin the game is my point. Don’t do it. Sometimes the ref will ping you. (Same goes for Earl).

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

It didn’t ruin the game is my point. Don’t do it. Sometimes the ref will ping you. (Same goes for Earl).

Could not disagree more. Cards have been ruining games for years now and I am sick of it.

@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:

Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch

In BB's defence it was ONCE ... (once too many). Roigard fucked up the second one.

Which points fo the fact BB was injured, and should have been hooked.

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in England Vs All Blacks:

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:

Who does everyone want to see start at 10 next week for Beau-Done Barrett?

I think it’s time to give Ruben some love. We don’t learn anything starting DMac.

I don't want Love exposed to starting. DMac to start, Reuben to get at least 30 minutes at either 10 or as a 15 double pivot. The boy needs to play, and 15 should be just as up for grabs as 10. WJ can move to wing and be effective

Worried about exposed to starting? Against Wales? Has conservative Razor infiltrated your account?

Fozzie used to do stuff like that. Put a reserve on to start with a bunch of other reserves, and watch them fail

You are learning nothing with Love playing from the bench vs Wales

If you want to give him 30 minutes at 10 then either start him at 10 and shift him to 15 or visca versca

@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

It didn’t ruin the game is my point. Don’t do it. Sometimes the ref will ping you. (Same goes for Earl).

Could not disagree more. Cards have been ruining games for years now and I am sick of it.

Obviously you didn’t see Earl’s as you turned it off in disgust.

@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:

And why the fuck are we taking taps from penalties 40m out?

Because our hooker was off and we hadn't been able to replace him as there hadn't been a scrum.

Again, why we hadn't considered the possibility of this and taught Ardie or Lakai to throw to some sort of option is also on the coaching staff.

@Dodge can you please go and read my whole post before commenting

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

It didn’t ruin the game is my point. Don’t do it. Sometimes the ref will ping you. (Same goes for Earl).

He didnt do anything. Watch it in full speed. It wasn't even in our own 22.

If thats a yellow you may turn it into ice hockey and have a revolving door of sin bins.

We are not far off as it is.

@booboo said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:

And why the fuck are we taking taps from penalties 40m out?

Because our hooker was off and we hadn't been able to replace him as there hadn't been a scrum.

Again, why we hadn't considered the possibility of this and taught Ardie or Lakai to throw to some sort of option is also on the coaching staff.

Rassie had Kolbe upskilled to line out throw.

@booboo said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:

Beauden Barrett, not once but twice, fucking TWICE missing touch

In BB's defence it was ONCE ... (once too many). Roigard fucked up the second one.

Which points fo the fact BB was injured, and should have been hooked.

Beaudy did it twice no? Then Roigard did it too.

@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Dodge can you please go and read my whole post before commenting

I read the whole post. I don’t agree with you. Cards are an important part of stopping cheating pricks being cheating pricks. Just like every other decision they’re sometimes not right.

If you think the cards ruined this game then I might respectfully suggest that you’re just a bitter AB fan dreaming of the old days.

@booboo said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Gunner said in England Vs All Blacks:

And why the fuck are we taking taps from penalties 40m out?

Because our hooker was off and we hadn't been able to replace him as there hadn't been a scrum.

Again, why we hadn't considered the possibility of this and taught Ardie or Lakai to throw to some sort of option is also on the coaching staff.

They could have brought Samisoni on at the lineout - it just means he would have stayed on the rest of the game

Which begs the question why is Razor so afraid to bring Samisoni on early (and not that early - it was the second half after all)

Razor has a real history of playing certain players into the ground for both the Crusaders and the ABs.

They were trying to be too cute and paid the price.

I'll read through the thread soon but did mention previously that sooner or later the ABs would be too far behind for the impact players to have a positive effect on the outcome of the game. It worked against Ireland and then Scotland but that's no plan for success.

There are no excuses for Robertson to continue starting BB from here on. Again, injury might end up being the best selector, so let's see DMac at 10 and Love at 15 against Wales.

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Dodge can you please go and read my whole post before commenting

I read the whole post. I don’t agree with you. Cards are an important part of stopping cheating pricks being cheating pricks. Just like every other decision they’re sometimes not right.

If you think the cards ruined this game then I might respectfully suggest that you’re just a bitter AB fan dreaming of the old days.

Not responding to obvious bait. If you won't engage in a serious discussion then I won't either.

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

It didn’t ruin the game is my point. Don’t do it. Sometimes the ref will ping you. (Same goes for Earl).

He didnt do anything. Watch it in full speed. It wasn't even in our own 22.

If thats a yellow you may turn it into ice hockey and have a revolving door of sin bins.

We are not far off as it is.

I didn’t say it was yellow, I said the yellow wasn’t definitive and it didn’t ruin the game.

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

It didn’t ruin the game is my point. Don’t do it. Sometimes the ref will ping you. (Same goes for Earl).

Two things for me

1. The constant TMO intervention must be a pain for the refs, and picking through the minutiae of every piece of play isn't helping improve the game itself
2. We should be good enough to overcome a YC. The saffas are highly capable of this right now, but we don't appear to have the strong on field leadership required to shut it down for 10 minutes

@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:

It didn’t ruin the game is my point. Don’t do it. Sometimes the ref will ping you. (Same goes for Earl).

Two things for me

1. The constant TMO intervention must be a pain for the refs, and picking through the minutiae of every piece of play isn't helping improve the game itself
2. We should be good enough to overcome a YC. The saffas are highly capable of this right now, but we don't appear to have the strong on field leadership required to shut it down for 10 minutes

TMO is a more interesting question to me, as the offside at the lineout before George Ford’s try was picked up by the TMO but not on the field. Fair enough, but where do you start and stop. Ultimately I’m of the view that good decisions made badly are better than bad decisions made live but it’s a balance (and bad decisions will be made in either situation). Rugby fans will whinge either way, it’s not cricket

@Jet really? We missed 3?

I think it was a massive blow for us losing Fabian Holland in the build up to this test. As it was losing Patrick Tuipolotu before the tour when he was in career best form.

Our locks/engine room were really undersized again in this match as it was Vs SA in Wellington and their scrum and carrying game suffered as a result.

Our locks moving forward should be big men who can provide guaranteed go forward Holland, Darry and Tuipolotu. While Lord played alright he is a bit of a Jason Eaton, Dodie Weir bean pole, if selected it he should only be partnered with a really big man.

Imo Scott Barrett and Tupou Vaai need to have really strong Super rugby seasons at blind side in order to be picked to play internationally from now on.

In fact New Zealand rugby should put out a etiquette for NZ Super rugby sides that no one under 195 centimeters is allowed to play six in Super rugby anymore.

Josh Beehre and Cameron Christie should be 6 for the Blues
Tupoui Vaai and Naitoa Ah Kuoi. should be 6 for the Chiefs
Caleb Delaney and Tom Allen should be 6 for the Chiefs
Scott Barrett and Jamie Hannah should be 6 for the Crusaders
Tk Howdens, Will Stoddard or Oli Haig should be 6 for the Highlanders.

Watching back now.

Could the TMO fuck off?

@Steven-Harris said in England Vs All Blacks:

@BorderJB the one thing i will say about Ardie and did wonder about this during the Super season , how much petrol would he have in the tank come the back end of the season?
He looks absolutely shattered i personally think their were games that either Du Plessis Kirifi and or Peter Lakai could have started in the 7 jersey
Fair to say having Scooter injured did not help and that meant having Ardie pick up the captains role but if i have one issue with this coaching group , we select players but never play them Kirifi and Love are classic case in point

Du Plesis Kirifi and Leroy Carter are too small and not players who can succeed longterm in test match rugby with the physicality it demands. Both were poor selection for this tour especially Kirifi who was already found out in the Rugby Championship.

Also: if Codie Taylor deserves a yellow card there, you're going to empty the field pretty quickly...