FIFA World Cup

There's going defensive, and then there's that. All England did was try and clog up the penalty area. No point having a back 6 when a lot of the threats ended up coming from the middle of the park where England were sacrificing space and players there whoch MacAllister and Fernandez took with both hands. Height kept getting mentioned with England, but it got taken out of the equation with Argentina's small men getting infront of the big English defenders with Messi putting his crosses lower (apart from the last goal).

None of these English defenders would have ever played in a 6 man backline, which would have led to a lot of confusion out there amonst the players. Maybe a 5 man, which is rare enough in itself, but more often than not, there's protection infront of them (defensive midfielders).

It's a real shame that England's best chance of winning was abandoned just when they needed it most.

The Mexico match will be remembered when the dust settles but if they'd worked on their first outing we could easily have seen England outplay and outscore Argentina last night.

Like late era McCaw, Montana, Brady or so many Australian Cricket captains, where the incredible advantage of a 39 year old Leo Messi is the clarity of his decision-making at the end of a match when everyone's exhausted.

Losing is one thing. Losing like that is quite another. Better to go down swinging

@canefan said in FIFA World Cup:

Losing is one thing. Losing like that is quite another. Better to go down swinging

The stats will show England were 10 mins or so from going to the WC final

The reality is it could easily have been 4-1 (2 shots against the post) and arguably 6-1 (two open goals missed).

The better, better coached, smarter team won.

@canefan said in FIFA World Cup:

I have no problem with England being defensive. But they went way too far back, and failed to mount any sort of press. Argentina were able to work it around with almost no fear of being turned over and attacked on the counter

yep
the strategy was right but tuchel fucked up by changing the teams basic structure
that reduced the counter attack opportunities
(and the ability to go for a winner, if they conceded)
if he felt the need to make changes (fatigue) then it should have been like for like

you have to say that was a bit of a mental fade (panic) by tuchel
the status quo was fine (scoreboard and team structure)), he didn't really have to change anything

argentina on the other hand had to change everything, and did so
so not putting it all on tuchel
scaloni fed more and more attacking players into the game
which actually became a problem for him after they took the lead
argentina then sat back on D themselves for the last ten minutes, with hardly any defending type players on the pitch

but by then both teams were organisationally a bit of a shambles
tuchel brought tony and rashford on, but it was too late

england outdone in the mental game by argentina
not unexpected
classic game of soccer really

Well I caved in and decided to watch the game, then caved in again 5 minutes after we scored and went to bed. It was atypical England strategy: cede the midfield, defend far too deep and don't pressure the opposition. When will we learn that this rarely works at this level? Never is my guess. Manager after manager has reverted to mean over the years and this is part of the reason I find watching England play footie so boring and frustrating.

@mohikamo said in FIFA World Cup:

@canefan said in FIFA World Cup:

I have no problem with England being defensive. But they went way too far back, and failed to mount any sort of press. Argentina were able to work it around with almost no fear of being turned over and attacked on the counter

yep
the strategy was right but tuchel fucked up by changing the teams basic structure
that reduced the counter attack opportunities
(and the ability to go for a winner, if they conceded)
if he felt the need to make changes (fatigue) then it should have been like for like

you have to say that was a bit of a mental fade (panic) by tuchel
the status quo was fine (scoreboard and team structure)), he didn't really have to change anything

argentina on the other hand had to change everything, and did so
so not putting it all on tuchel
scaloni fed more and more attacking players into the game
which actually became a problem for him after they took the lead
argentina then sat back on D themselves for the last ten minutes, with hardly any defending type players on the pitch

but by then both teams were organisationally a bit of a shambles
tuchel brought tony and rashford on, but it was too late

england outdone in the mental game by argentina
not unexpected
classic game of soccer really

Tuchel was dumb in how he subbed. Not just in the profile of player he did (or did not) bring on but also in his timing.

Scaloni had made his 5th substitute before Tuchel had made his second. Tuchel made his fourth and fifth after falling behind 2-1. Classic case of a reactive rather than proactive approach to substituting.

He essentially asked his starting 11 to do too much work.

By my calculations Argentina got about 90 minutes of game time from their subs, England got less than half of that.

@nonpartizan said in FIFA World Cup:

Classic case of a reactive rather than proactive approach to substituting.

yep
was guna put the reactive bit in there
tuchel kinda went into panic mode
scaloni was cool calm and calculating
and ratcheted up the pressure

@Catogrande said in FIFA World Cup:

Well I caved in and decided to watch the game, then caved in again 5 minutes after we scored and went to bed. It was atypical England strategy: cede the midfield, defend far too deep and don't pressure the opposition. When will we learn that this rarely works at this level? Never is my guess. Manager after manager has reverted to mean over the years and this is part of the reason I find watching England play footie so boring and frustrating.

I don't think the media hype around the England football team helps them at all. So much bluster and bollocks.

Best way forwards for them would be to learn from Clive Woodward's manta and to Think Correctly Under Pressure.

@Catogrande said in FIFA World Cup:

Well I caved in and decided to watch the game, then caved in again 5 minutes after we scored and went to bed. It was atypical England strategy: cede the midfield, defend far too deep and don't pressure the opposition. When will we learn that this rarely works at this level? Never is my guess. Manager after manager has reverted to mean over the years and this is part of the reason I find watching England play footie so boring and frustrating.

You went to bed with 30 minutes left in a WC Semi with your team leading 1-0?

Extraordinary!

@canefan said in FIFA World Cup:

@mohikamo I have no problem with England being defensive. But they went way too far back, and failed to mount any sort of press. Argentina were able to work it around with almost no fear of being turned over and attacked on the counter

Even watching the highlights only, the amount of time they gave to Messi on the ball to get in those dangerous crosses was baffling.

@sparky said in FIFA World Cup:

@Catogrande said in FIFA World Cup:

Well I caved in and decided to watch the game, then caved in again 5 minutes after we scored and went to bed. It was atypical England strategy: cede the midfield, defend far too deep and don't pressure the opposition. When will we learn that this rarely works at this level? Never is my guess. Manager after manager has reverted to mean over the years and this is part of the reason I find watching England play footie so boring and frustrating.

I don't think the media hype around the England football team helps them at all. So much bluster and bollocks.

Best way forwards for them would be to learn from Clive Woodward's manta and to Think Correctly Under Pressure.

It comes with the extremely highly paid job.

The office consensus is one of acceptance as Argies were better and deserved it.

It’s always a good run supporting them until the inevitable!

@MiketheSnow said in FIFA World Cup:

View image

Something else I was thinking about was how no Man U or Liverpool players were in the England starting XI.

@voodoo said in FIFA World Cup:

@Catogrande said in FIFA World Cup:

Well I caved in and decided to watch the game, then caved in again 5 minutes after we scored and went to bed. It was atypical England strategy: cede the midfield, defend far too deep and don't pressure the opposition. When will we learn that this rarely works at this level? Never is my guess. Manager after manager has reverted to mean over the years and this is part of the reason I find watching England play footie so boring and frustrating.

You went to bed with 30 minutes left in a WC Semi with your team leading 1-0?

Extraordinary!

Yes that's the sad part about it but I didn't want to see the inevitable unfold. Again.

Anyone watching the worthless playoff for 3rd?
England doing a Germany v Brazil 2014 at the moment
Almost halftime and are up 4-0

England trashing France 4-0 in the world's most pointless game.

England look like men unburdened now they aren't playing with the weight of history of their shoulders. France look like they've been smoking fags and drinking vin rogue for four days.

@Virgil France look like they've downed the tools. I know neither team wants to play this game but you can't help but think how badly Tuchel set his team up all tournament. England have so many good attacking players yet they never really got the opportunity to show it.

Imagine Rashford replacing Gordon against Argentina? You could still put everyone behind the ball but at least you still have the outlet for quick transitions and an opportunity for goals.

@Fale009 Or Kane who was probably injured.

Perhaps England weren't that bad? And Argentina put perhaps one of the cleverest performances of all time to frustrate them?

@sparky I would still keep Kane on cause his range of passing is perfect for counter attack play. If he were injured then definitely.

@sparky said in FIFA World Cup:

Perhaps England weren't that bad? And Argentina put perhaps one of the cleverest performances of all time to frustrate them?

Both can be true?

France get 2 back in the first 10 minutes of the second half. England looking leggy already. 4-2.

Of course the meaningless game is the first time we've seen free flowing football since probably the round of 32. So good to watch

What did Didiers Deschamps give his players at half time? 4-3.

Hydration break. England look shot.

5-4 to England

What a match

Final has a lot to live up to

Now 6-4

Mental

Game of the Tournament by a country mile

Fabulous

Chapeau to France to make it a contest

@MiketheSnow said in FIFA World Cup:

Game of the Tournament by a country mile

Fabulous

Chapeau to France to make it a contest

A classic!

Somewhere Kevin Keegan is smiling and telling everyone "that's how football should be played."

The final will be now be a cagey 0-0 that ends up with penalties after 120 minutes.

If Tuchel is retained, he should look at this game as a blueprint for the Euros. Parking the bus is not in their DNA, they should play to their strengths, better to lose that way than die whimpering. Also, pays to rotate the squad wherever possible, to keep players fresh for the big games

@canefan said in FIFA World Cup:

Both can be true?

yep
bit of both

and i also blame the england players just as much as the coach for what happened
it was the england players who first decided to park it
pretty sure that wasn't the coaches plan
as the leaders, kane and bellingham have to take some responsibility for that
after the argentines compounded the problem with their play, tuchel then panicked
made the wrong changes and compounded the problem even more

very interesting how it played out . . . for a neutral

one thing you can be sure of tomorrow . . .
SPAIN ARE NOT GOING TO PARK IT IF THEY ARE UP BY ONE OR TWO

@Fale009 said in FIFA World Cup:

Of course the meaningless game is the first time we've seen free flowing football since probably the round of 32. So good to watch

saw hardly any leg slide tackles

Spain are far more sophisticated than England. If they get ahead they will have a far better chance to shut Argentina down

@canefan said in FIFA World Cup:

If Tuchel is retained, he should look at this game as a blueprint for the Euros. Parking the bus is not in their DNA, they should play to their strengths, better to lose that way than die whimpering. Also, pays to rotate the squad wherever possible, to keep players fresh for the big games

Definitely

First and last matches for England were a breath of fresh air

They might not win every match, but every opponent knows they have to score goals, and lots of them to beat an attack oriented England side.

And for the neutral it makes the matches exciting as fuck

Dull final so far.

Spain had an early chance but there's been very little else to remember from the first 23 minutes of this

Turgid

Synonym, shit