@Frank said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
I think they should be playing Tupaea or Proctor as much as possible until they either prove they're up to the task or it becomes obvious they aren't.
Proctor has already had two seasons.
One of the luckiest players in New Zealand to be starting in the ABs I'd say.
As well as 14 other players.
@george33 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Jordie gone for scans on his hamstring apparently. Doesn't sound that good.
Wouldn't risk him myself if not 100.
Luckily we have the Super Rugby player of the year to step in if he's injured
Backline:
9 - Roigard
10 - Love
11 - Clarke
12 - Tupaea
13 - Proctor
14 - Jordan
15 - McKenzie
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Backline:
9 - Roigard
10 - Love
11 - Clarke
12 - Tupaea
13 - Proctor
14 - Jordan
15 - McKenzie
Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...
@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Backline:
9 - Roigard
10 - Love
11 - Clarke
12 - Tupaea
13 - Proctor
14 - Jordan
15 - McKenzie
Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...
me too but i think @antipodean is probably correct
hoping QT's defensive issues are just because he was at 13...
@george33 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Jordie gone for scans on his hamstring apparently. Doesn't sound that good.
Wouldn't risk him myself if not 100.
Jordie was named to start so that will mean there will be a change from what was named yesterday. I’m assuming they won’t risk it and he will be out. No point risking with SA around the corner.
@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Backline:
9 - Roigard
10 - Love
11 - Clarke
12 - Tupaea
13 - Proctor
14 - Jordan
15 - McKenzie
Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...
I'd prefer Moorby too given his performance last week and Clarke's been carrying a niggle. If Clarke is 100% though, I'd like a power winger back in the side - he's been good at looking for work around rucks previously.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Beauden start at fullback either. He'd be one of the last backs not to get any time on the field prior to them assembling for South Africa.
@brodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Just interested in what are the criteria to 'come of age'?
when you start giving the opposition something to think about
@Kiwiwomble said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Backline:
9 - Roigard
10 - Love
11 - Clarke
12 - Tupaea
13 - Proctor
14 - Jordan
15 - McKenzie
Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...
me too but i think @antipodean is probably correct
hoping QT's defensive issues are just because he was at 13...
QT is a far better defender at 12. It's his natural role and he's in form. JB playing the house down and being in the leadership group is the only reason QT isn't starting every week.
I'd also agree on Moorby. I like Clarke but he needs to show he can adapt to the new style.
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Backline:
9 - Roigard
10 - Love
11 - Clarke
12 - Tupaea
13 - Proctor
14 - Jordan
15 - McKenzie
Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...
I'd prefer Moorby too given his performance last week and Clarke's been carrying a niggle. If Clarke is 100% though, I'd like a power winger back in the side - he's been good at looking for work around rucks previously.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Beauden start at fullback either. He'd be one of the last backs not to get any time on the field prior to them assembling for South Africa.
I can see BB getting a run at 15, we need to look at being able to change things a bit.
@Dan54 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Backline:
9 - Roigard
10 - Love
11 - Clarke
12 - Tupaea
13 - Proctor
14 - Jordan
15 - McKenzie
Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...
I'd prefer Moorby too given his performance last week and Clarke's been carrying a niggle. If Clarke is 100% though, I'd like a power winger back in the side - he's been good at looking for work around rucks previously.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Beauden start at fullback either. He'd be one of the last backs not to get any time on the field prior to them assembling for South Africa.
I can see BB getting a run at 15, we need to look at being able to change things a bit.
By change things, do you mean kick the ball away aimlessly?
@Landers92 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Dan54 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Backline:
9 - Roigard
10 - Love
11 - Clarke
12 - Tupaea
13 - Proctor
14 - Jordan
15 - McKenzie
Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...
I'd prefer Moorby too given his performance last week and Clarke's been carrying a niggle. If Clarke is 100% though, I'd like a power winger back in the side - he's been good at looking for work around rucks previously.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Beauden start at fullback either. He'd be one of the last backs not to get any time on the field prior to them assembling for South Africa.
I can see BB getting a run at 15, we need to look at being able to change things a bit.
By change things, do you mean kick the ball away aimlessly?
I sincerely doubt Rennie would let that tactic fly, at least it wouldn't happen again after the first, we've moved on from the Cotter/Robertson gameplans.
One hopes so anyway. I think by the end of SA he'll know who can adapt to the new world and who needs to be told not to come Monday.
@Kiwiwomble let's give the slippery french backs a little bit of credit - yeah it wasn't pretty but I think 3 times he completely lost his footing going in for a tackle. Maybe just nerves, but it can be corrected anyway.
Beauden Barrett doesn’t have to play. Love needs as much time as possible at first five and there are other options there, McKenzie and Jordan are apparently the best two fullbacks in the world, Barrett’s two positions are covered by the starters so there’s no point having him on the bench and it’s not a primary school team where everyone has to get a go so they don’t get their feelings hurt.
@Bones said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Kiwiwomble let's give the slippery french backs a little bit of credit - yeah it wasn't pretty but I think 3 times he completely lost his footing going in for a tackle. Maybe just nerves, but it can be corrected anyway.
i dont think i was particularly harsh on him and previously had said i would have given him another run to try and settle, if anythign i was alluding to the idea he should be much more comfortable
With BB it's not just the aimless chip kicks, it's exits in general - when was the last time you saw him send a ball from his 22 anywhere close to halfway? I don't want him at 15 any more than I want him at 10 - OK, that's not true, I'd be a little happier at 15...
But either way, I think DMac is a significantly better 15 than BB, and with Love and Jordan (I know, I know) there when the chosen one comes back, I really don't see a role for BB going forward.
Wonderful AB, but time beats everyone eventually. He can go to SA and play the . midweek games as his swansong
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Beauden Barrett doesn’t have to play. Love needs as much time as possible at first five and there are other options there, McKenzie and Jordan are apparently the best two fullbacks in the world, Barrett’s two positions are covered by the starters so there’s no point having him on the bench and it’s not a primary school team where everyone has to get a go so they don’t get their feelings hurt.
Also, in the interests of building depth for the RWC he is a waste of an opportunity to look at someone else like Josh Moorby
9- Preston
10- DMac
11- Clarke
12- ALB
13- Ioane
14- Moorby
15- Barrett
Roigard, Love, Jordan
@ACT-Crusader Now I feel sick.
Roigard Love Jordan? Roigard might have made some passes but Jordan's not sharing with anybody.
@Landers92 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Dan54 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Backline:
9 - Roigard
10 - Love
11 - Clarke
12 - Tupaea
13 - Proctor
14 - Jordan
15 - McKenzie
Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...
I'd prefer Moorby too given his performance last week and Clarke's been carrying a niggle. If Clarke is 100% though, I'd like a power winger back in the side - he's been good at looking for work around rucks previously.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Beauden start at fullback either. He'd be one of the last backs not to get any time on the field prior to them assembling for South Africa.
I can see BB getting a run at 15, we need to look at being able to change things a bit.
By change things, do you mean kick the ball away aimlessly?
I not saying he should be in team or anything ( or even I would pick him), but wouldn't surprise me hugely if he did play is all.
I would actually be interested to see what would happen if he did, with a coaching group advocating the style these fellas seem to be.
I don't pretend to be expert enough to know what or how the coaching team is thinking.
@Dan54 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Landers92 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Dan54 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Backline:
9 - Roigard
10 - Love
11 - Clarke
12 - Tupaea
13 - Proctor
14 - Jordan
15 - McKenzie
Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...
I'd prefer Moorby too given his performance last week and Clarke's been carrying a niggle. If Clarke is 100% though, I'd like a power winger back in the side - he's been good at looking for work around rucks previously.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Beauden start at fullback either. He'd be one of the last backs not to get any time on the field prior to them assembling for South Africa.
I can see BB getting a run at 15, we need to look at being able to change things a bit.
By change things, do you mean kick the ball away aimlessly?
I don't pretend to be expert enough to know what or how the coaching team is thinking.
Don't stress Dan, we have you covered on this
@ACT-Crusader said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
9- Preston
10- DMac
11- Clarke
12- ALB
13- Ioane
14- Moorby
15- BarrettRoigard, Love, Jordan
Could be worse
9 Ratima
10 BB
11 Clarke
12 ALB
13 Ioane
14 Jordan
15 DMac
Not that it really matters after 13 because there's 4 handbrakes before the wings and fullback.
@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
With BB it's not just the aimless chip kicks, it's exits in general - when was the last time you saw him send a ball from his 22 anywhere close to halfway? I don't want him at 15 any more than I want him at 10 - OK, that's not true, I'd be a little happier at 15...
This is a decent part of the reason our results are so much worse when BB plays without Roigard - if he has to do all the clearances we suffer (it's also a factor in Love's success to be fair).
The other part being that if neither the 9 or 10 are holding the defence, nobody else is getting any space. This is why even young Kemara would be a better 10 option for me.
At 15 it's a bit of a different story - his kicking is good enough (as long as he can be dissuaded from the chips and slightly-too-far uncontested bombs), his passing is fast enough, he is less contact-shy when he has more space, and he is still reasonably quick. Basically all of his problems at 10 are less important in that role. He's still well down the list for me, but I wouldn't have a problem with him getting a run there in case of injury.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Parker an interesting one. They clearly feel they need the archetype, but don't feel he is ready to go just yet. I wouldn't be surprised if he is again unused this week - but to me it makes it highly likely they want to get Frizell back involved.
The loose forwards remain the area I'm least sure about and they also seem to be the area the coaches are least sure about. What's the best combination? Are all the jobs being covered? Who plays where? How will a smaller trio fare against South Africa? And if Jacobson is out, we'll see yet another combination this weekend. That could give Parker an opportunity, either as a starter or off the bench.
I don't think we have the balance right as yet in our loose forward mix. I'm far from convinced by Ardie as captain - and player for that matter. LJ and Segner were far more effective hitting rucks, moving bodies and turning ball over...Ardie is planly in the twilight of his career, sure no-one doubts his commitment, but there are other more effective players and ball carriers.
Segner has been a revelation this season winning and contessting LOs, carrying strongly and turning over ball. I would like to see him at 7, LJ (If fit) at 6 and Lakai at 8..
@Jailbreak7 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Parker an interesting one. They clearly feel they need the archetype, but don't feel he is ready to go just yet. I wouldn't be surprised if he is again unused this week - but to me it makes it highly likely they want to get Frizell back involved.
The loose forwards remain the area I'm least sure about and they also seem to be the area the coaches are least sure about. What's the best combination? Are all the jobs being covered? Who plays where? How will a smaller trio fare against South Africa? And if Jacobson is out, we'll see yet another combination this weekend. That could give Parker an opportunity, either as a starter or off the bench.
I don't think we have the balance right as yet in our loose forward mix. I'm far from convinced by Ardie as captain - and player for that matter. LJ and Segner were far more effective hitting rucks, moving bodies and turning ball over...Ardie is planly in the twilight of his career, sure no-one doubts his commitment, but there are other more effective players and ball carriers.
Segner has been a revelation this season winning and contessting LOs, carrying strongly and turning over ball. I would like to see him at 7, LJ (If fit) at 6 and Lakai at 8..
I think Ardie hit close to 50 rucks against the French. It was a key part of the reason we got such quick ball.
He also made the most carries that game.
Even though he came off early against Italy he was top 4 for both carries and tackles.
To do that while clearly needing a rest and after an jnjury early in the game shows he's still a vital component of the team.
@pakman said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
If I were selecting my pack would be:
EDG/Taylor/Lomax/Darry/Vaa'i/LukeJ/Parker/RD
Bench: Numia/Aumua/Tosi/Patty T/Lakai
Parker would have to be the worst openside of all the loosies and not sure we're ready for Numia at hooker or Aumua at prop.
@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Dan54 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Landers92 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Dan54 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Backline:
9 - Roigard
10 - Love
11 - Clarke
12 - Tupaea
13 - Proctor
14 - Jordan
15 - McKenzie
Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...
I'd prefer Moorby too given his performance last week and Clarke's been carrying a niggle. If Clarke is 100% though, I'd like a power winger back in the side - he's been good at looking for work around rucks previously.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Beauden start at fullback either. He'd be one of the last backs not to get any time on the field prior to them assembling for South Africa.
I can see BB getting a run at 15, we need to look at being able to change things a bit.
By change things, do you mean kick the ball away aimlessly?
I don't pretend to be expert enough to know what or how the coaching team is thinking.
Don't stress Dan, we have you covered on this
Thank god mate!!
@Bovidae said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Paul Cully is predicting that Vaa'i will be named at 6.
That would be three quite different players in three consecutive tests. Either they're searching for the best loose forward balance, or they genuinely believe all those players can perform the same role.
Hopefully something just clicks, because there isn't much time to give three players (or even four if Parker gets a go too) significant game time before South Africa.
@shaquilleoatmeal there's still the three fixtures before the first Test.
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@shaquilleoatmealthere's still the three fixtures before the first Test.
Is that enough time to find the best blindside option - two games max each?
@shaquilleoatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@shaquilleoatmealthere's still the three fixtures before the first Test.
Is that enough time to find the best blindside option - two games max each?
I think six fixtures is sufficient time to determine your best loose forward trio and bench - training and game data should give you enough to go on.
I mean if not by then, when?
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@shaquilleoatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@shaquilleoatmealthere's still the three fixtures before the first Test.
Is that enough time to find the best blindside option - two games max each?
I think six fixtures is sufficient time to determine your best loose forward trio and bench - training and game data should give you enough to go on.
I mean if not by then, when?
I think it would be if you already had a rough idea of your best trio - and Rennie might - but whether Lakai, Sititi, Vaa’i or Parker is the right option at blindside could take some time to work out if they’re starting with a clean slate. There could be an obvious standout before the first South Africa test though. They might already be able to rule out Sititi.
@Jnr said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Jailbreak7 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:
Parker an interesting one. They clearly feel they need the archetype, but don't feel he is ready to go just yet. I wouldn't be surprised if he is again unused this week - but to me it makes it highly likely they want to get Frizell back involved.
The loose forwards remain the area I'm least sure about and they also seem to be the area the coaches are least sure about. What's the best combination? Are all the jobs being covered? Who plays where? How will a smaller trio fare against South Africa? And if Jacobson is out, we'll see yet another combination this weekend. That could give Parker an opportunity, either as a starter or off the bench.
I don't think we have the balance right as yet in our loose forward mix. I'm far from convinced by Ardie as captain - and player for that matter. LJ and Segner were far more effective hitting rucks, moving bodies and turning ball over...Ardie is planly in the twilight of his career, sure no-one doubts his commitment, but there are other more effective players and ball carriers.
Segner has been a revelation this season winning and contessting LOs, carrying strongly and turning over ball. I would like to see him at 7, LJ (If fit) at 6 and Lakai at 8..I think Ardie hit close to 50 rucks against the French. It was a key part of the reason we got such quick ball.
He also made the most carries that game.
Even though he came off early against Italy he was top 4 for both carries and tackles.
To do that while clearly needing a rest and after an jnjury early in the game shows he's still a vital component of the team.
Did he really? That would be great if so - but it is a hell of a lot more rucks than usual, he averaged about 15 per 80 minutes for Moana.
Against Italy he was 4th for carries per minute and 7th for tackles per minute. Wallace Sititi - who had the worst game in the history of the known universe - was 3rd and 5th (without the advantage of playing for a shorter period).
He was 9th and 12th vs France when playing 80 (which illustrates the per minute advantage of guys who play part-games).
I'm not particularly down on him, but those carry and tackles per minute vs France are about the same as what he did for Moana, so I'd be very surprised if he kept that workload the same but hit 3 times the amount of rucks.
The loose forward balance, and even what they're aiming for, remains a bit of a mystery to me.
