NC: All Blacks v Ireland

@Landers92 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Dan54 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Backline:

9 - Roigard

10 - Love

11 - Clarke

12 - Tupaea

13 - Proctor

14 - Jordan

15 - McKenzie

Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...

I'd prefer Moorby too given his performance last week and Clarke's been carrying a niggle. If Clarke is 100% though, I'd like a power winger back in the side - he's been good at looking for work around rucks previously.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Beauden start at fullback either. He'd be one of the last backs not to get any time on the field prior to them assembling for South Africa.

I can see BB getting a run at 15, we need to look at being able to change things a bit.

By change things, do you mean kick the ball away aimlessly?

I sincerely doubt Rennie would let that tactic fly, at least it wouldn't happen again after the first, we've moved on from the Cotter/Robertson gameplans.

One hopes so anyway. I think by the end of SA he'll know who can adapt to the new world and who needs to be told not to come Monday.

@Kiwiwomble let's give the slippery french backs a little bit of credit - yeah it wasn't pretty but I think 3 times he completely lost his footing going in for a tackle. Maybe just nerves, but it can be corrected anyway.

Beauden Barrett doesn’t have to play. Love needs as much time as possible at first five and there are other options there, McKenzie and Jordan are apparently the best two fullbacks in the world, Barrett’s two positions are covered by the starters so there’s no point having him on the bench and it’s not a primary school team where everyone has to get a go so they don’t get their feelings hurt.

@Bones said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Kiwiwomble let's give the slippery french backs a little bit of credit - yeah it wasn't pretty but I think 3 times he completely lost his footing going in for a tackle. Maybe just nerves, but it can be corrected anyway.

i dont think i was particularly harsh on him and previously had said i would have given him another run to try and settle, if anythign i was alluding to the idea he should be much more comfortable

With BB it's not just the aimless chip kicks, it's exits in general - when was the last time you saw him send a ball from his 22 anywhere close to halfway? I don't want him at 15 any more than I want him at 10 - OK, that's not true, I'd be a little happier at 15...

But either way, I think DMac is a significantly better 15 than BB, and with Love and Jordan (I know, I know) there when the chosen one comes back, I really don't see a role for BB going forward.

Wonderful AB, but time beats everyone eventually. He can go to SA and play the . midweek games as his swansong

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Beauden Barrett doesn’t have to play. Love needs as much time as possible at first five and there are other options there, McKenzie and Jordan are apparently the best two fullbacks in the world, Barrett’s two positions are covered by the starters so there’s no point having him on the bench and it’s not a primary school team where everyone has to get a go so they don’t get their feelings hurt.

Also, in the interests of building depth for the RWC he is a waste of an opportunity to look at someone else like Josh Moorby

9- Preston
10- DMac
11- Clarke
12- ALB
13- Ioane
14- Moorby
15- Barrett

Roigard, Love, Jordan

@ACT-Crusader Now I feel sick.

Roigard Love Jordan? Roigard might have made some passes but Jordan's not sharing with anybody.

@Landers92 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Dan54 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Backline:

9 - Roigard

10 - Love

11 - Clarke

12 - Tupaea

13 - Proctor

14 - Jordan

15 - McKenzie

Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...

I'd prefer Moorby too given his performance last week and Clarke's been carrying a niggle. If Clarke is 100% though, I'd like a power winger back in the side - he's been good at looking for work around rucks previously.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Beauden start at fullback either. He'd be one of the last backs not to get any time on the field prior to them assembling for South Africa.

I can see BB getting a run at 15, we need to look at being able to change things a bit.

By change things, do you mean kick the ball away aimlessly?

I not saying he should be in team or anything ( or even I would pick him), but wouldn't surprise me hugely if he did play is all.
I would actually be interested to see what would happen if he did, with a coaching group advocating the style these fellas seem to be.
I don't pretend to be expert enough to know what or how the coaching team is thinking.

@Dan54 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Landers92 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Dan54 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Backline:

9 - Roigard

10 - Love

11 - Clarke

12 - Tupaea

13 - Proctor

14 - Jordan

15 - McKenzie

Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...

I'd prefer Moorby too given his performance last week and Clarke's been carrying a niggle. If Clarke is 100% though, I'd like a power winger back in the side - he's been good at looking for work around rucks previously.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Beauden start at fullback either. He'd be one of the last backs not to get any time on the field prior to them assembling for South Africa.

I can see BB getting a run at 15, we need to look at being able to change things a bit.

By change things, do you mean kick the ball away aimlessly?

I don't pretend to be expert enough to know what or how the coaching team is thinking.

Don't stress Dan, we have you covered on this

@voodoo liberal use of the term ‘we’ there bro

@ACT-Crusader said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

9- Preston
10- DMac
11- Clarke
12- ALB
13- Ioane
14- Moorby
15- Barrett

Roigard, Love, Jordan

Could be worse

9 Ratima
10 BB
11 Clarke
12 ALB
13 Ioane
14 Jordan
15 DMac

Not that it really matters after 13 because there's 4 handbrakes before the wings and fullback.

@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

With BB it's not just the aimless chip kicks, it's exits in general - when was the last time you saw him send a ball from his 22 anywhere close to halfway? I don't want him at 15 any more than I want him at 10 - OK, that's not true, I'd be a little happier at 15...

This is a decent part of the reason our results are so much worse when BB plays without Roigard - if he has to do all the clearances we suffer (it's also a factor in Love's success to be fair).
The other part being that if neither the 9 or 10 are holding the defence, nobody else is getting any space. This is why even young Kemara would be a better 10 option for me.

At 15 it's a bit of a different story - his kicking is good enough (as long as he can be dissuaded from the chips and slightly-too-far uncontested bombs), his passing is fast enough, he is less contact-shy when he has more space, and he is still reasonably quick. Basically all of his problems at 10 are less important in that role. He's still well down the list for me, but I wouldn't have a problem with him getting a run there in case of injury.

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Parker an interesting one. They clearly feel they need the archetype, but don't feel he is ready to go just yet. I wouldn't be surprised if he is again unused this week - but to me it makes it highly likely they want to get Frizell back involved.

The loose forwards remain the area I'm least sure about and they also seem to be the area the coaches are least sure about. What's the best combination? Are all the jobs being covered? Who plays where? How will a smaller trio fare against South Africa? And if Jacobson is out, we'll see yet another combination this weekend. That could give Parker an opportunity, either as a starter or off the bench.

I don't think we have the balance right as yet in our loose forward mix. I'm far from convinced by Ardie as captain - and player for that matter. LJ and Segner were far more effective hitting rucks, moving bodies and turning ball over...Ardie is planly in the twilight of his career, sure no-one doubts his commitment, but there are other more effective players and ball carriers.
Segner has been a revelation this season winning and contessting LOs, carrying strongly and turning over ball. I would like to see him at 7, LJ (If fit) at 6 and Lakai at 8..

I reckon Segner gets a start this weekend. Probably 6, LJ 7 and Ardie at 8. Lakai on bench.

If I were selecting my pack would be:

EDG/Taylor/Lomax/Darry/Vaa'i/LukeJ/Parker/RD

Bench: Numia/Aumua/Tosi/Patty T/Lakai

@Jailbreak7 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Parker an interesting one. They clearly feel they need the archetype, but don't feel he is ready to go just yet. I wouldn't be surprised if he is again unused this week - but to me it makes it highly likely they want to get Frizell back involved.

The loose forwards remain the area I'm least sure about and they also seem to be the area the coaches are least sure about. What's the best combination? Are all the jobs being covered? Who plays where? How will a smaller trio fare against South Africa? And if Jacobson is out, we'll see yet another combination this weekend. That could give Parker an opportunity, either as a starter or off the bench.

I don't think we have the balance right as yet in our loose forward mix. I'm far from convinced by Ardie as captain - and player for that matter. LJ and Segner were far more effective hitting rucks, moving bodies and turning ball over...Ardie is planly in the twilight of his career, sure no-one doubts his commitment, but there are other more effective players and ball carriers.
Segner has been a revelation this season winning and contessting LOs, carrying strongly and turning over ball. I would like to see him at 7, LJ (If fit) at 6 and Lakai at 8..

I think Ardie hit close to 50 rucks against the French. It was a key part of the reason we got such quick ball.

He also made the most carries that game.

Even though he came off early against Italy he was top 4 for both carries and tackles.

To do that while clearly needing a rest and after an jnjury early in the game shows he's still a vital component of the team.

@pakman said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

If I were selecting my pack would be:

EDG/Taylor/Lomax/Darry/Vaa'i/LukeJ/Parker/RD

Bench: Numia/Aumua/Tosi/Patty T/Lakai

Parker would have to be the worst openside of all the loosies and not sure we're ready for Numia at hooker or Aumua at prop.

@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Dan54 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Landers92 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Dan54 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@voodoo said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Backline:

9 - Roigard

10 - Love

11 - Clarke

12 - Tupaea

13 - Proctor

14 - Jordan

15 - McKenzie

Looks good but I'd give Moorby another go - reward the performance, and put Clarke on notice that it's better to draw and pass than to clatter into ther last defender...

I'd prefer Moorby too given his performance last week and Clarke's been carrying a niggle. If Clarke is 100% though, I'd like a power winger back in the side - he's been good at looking for work around rucks previously.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Beauden start at fullback either. He'd be one of the last backs not to get any time on the field prior to them assembling for South Africa.

I can see BB getting a run at 15, we need to look at being able to change things a bit.

By change things, do you mean kick the ball away aimlessly?

I don't pretend to be expert enough to know what or how the coaching team is thinking.

Don't stress Dan, we have you covered on this

Thank god mate!!

Paul Cully is predicting that Vaa'i will be named at 6.

@Bovidae said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Paul Cully is predicting that Vaa'i will be named at 6.

That would be three quite different players in three consecutive tests. Either they're searching for the best loose forward balance, or they genuinely believe all those players can perform the same role.

Hopefully something just clicks, because there isn't much time to give three players (or even four if Parker gets a go too) significant game time before South Africa.

@shaquilleoatmeal there's still the three fixtures before the first Test.

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@shaquilleoatmealthere's still the three fixtures before the first Test.

Is that enough time to find the best blindside option - two games max each?

@shaquilleoatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@shaquilleoatmealthere's still the three fixtures before the first Test.

Is that enough time to find the best blindside option - two games max each?

I think six fixtures is sufficient time to determine your best loose forward trio and bench - training and game data should give you enough to go on.

I mean if not by then, when?

I wonder if vaai training at 6 was to keep him ready to cover again so they can bring on a lock?
Maybe inject paddy (amusing fit) to muscle out last 20min.
I still have a feeling parker starts at 6

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@shaquilleoatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@shaquilleoatmealthere's still the three fixtures before the first Test.

Is that enough time to find the best blindside option - two games max each?

I think six fixtures is sufficient time to determine your best loose forward trio and bench - training and game data should give you enough to go on.

I mean if not by then, when?

I think it would be if you already had a rough idea of your best trio - and Rennie might - but whether Lakai, Sititi, Vaa’i or Parker is the right option at blindside could take some time to work out if they’re starting with a clean slate. There could be an obvious standout before the first South Africa test though. They might already be able to rule out Sititi.

@Jnr said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Jailbreak7 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Parker an interesting one. They clearly feel they need the archetype, but don't feel he is ready to go just yet. I wouldn't be surprised if he is again unused this week - but to me it makes it highly likely they want to get Frizell back involved.

The loose forwards remain the area I'm least sure about and they also seem to be the area the coaches are least sure about. What's the best combination? Are all the jobs being covered? Who plays where? How will a smaller trio fare against South Africa? And if Jacobson is out, we'll see yet another combination this weekend. That could give Parker an opportunity, either as a starter or off the bench.

I don't think we have the balance right as yet in our loose forward mix. I'm far from convinced by Ardie as captain - and player for that matter. LJ and Segner were far more effective hitting rucks, moving bodies and turning ball over...Ardie is planly in the twilight of his career, sure no-one doubts his commitment, but there are other more effective players and ball carriers.
Segner has been a revelation this season winning and contessting LOs, carrying strongly and turning over ball. I would like to see him at 7, LJ (If fit) at 6 and Lakai at 8..

I think Ardie hit close to 50 rucks against the French. It was a key part of the reason we got such quick ball.

He also made the most carries that game.

Even though he came off early against Italy he was top 4 for both carries and tackles.

To do that while clearly needing a rest and after an jnjury early in the game shows he's still a vital component of the team.

Did he really? That would be great if so - but it is a hell of a lot more rucks than usual, he averaged about 15 per 80 minutes for Moana.
Against Italy he was 4th for carries per minute and 7th for tackles per minute. Wallace Sititi - who had the worst game in the history of the known universe - was 3rd and 5th (without the advantage of playing for a shorter period).

He was 9th and 12th vs France when playing 80 (which illustrates the per minute advantage of guys who play part-games).

I'm not particularly down on him, but those carry and tackles per minute vs France are about the same as what he did for Moana, so I'd be very surprised if he kept that workload the same but hit 3 times the amount of rucks.

The loose forward balance, and even what they're aiming for, remains a bit of a mystery to me.

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Did he really? That would be great if so - but it is a hell of a lot more rucks than usual, he averaged about 15 per 80 minutes for Moana.

It would mean he attended a third of attacking rucks (deduced from carries). I find that difficult to believe, especially the "hit" bit.

yeah "rucks attended" is the dumbest stat

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@shaquilleoatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@antipodean said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@shaquilleoatmealthere's still the three fixtures before the first Test.

Is that enough time to find the best blindside option - two games max each?

I think six fixtures is sufficient time to determine your best loose forward trio and bench - training and game data should give you enough to go on.

I mean if not by then, when?

I think it would be if you already had a rough idea of your best trio - and Rennie might - but whether Lakai, Sititi, Vaa’i or Parker is the right option at blindside could take some time to work out if they’re starting with a clean slate. There could be an obvious standout before the first South Africa test though. They might already be able to rule out Sititi.

This is the thing, it looks kinda like they really don't know because those players are all pretty different.

Sititi is an okay lineout forward. A medium sized wide volume carrier and tackler. Not a ruck hitter.
Lakai is not really a lineout forward, a medium sized solid generalist, a bit of a jackal threat. A medium-low ruck hitter.
Parker is a good lineout target, a medium volume tackler, not a carrier. Is a ruck hitter.
Vaa'i is a very good lineout target, not a volume tackler or carrier, is a ruck hitter.
Segner is a decent lineout target, not a volume carrier or tackler. Accurate generalist, a bit of a jackal threat. A medium-low ruck hitter.

Rennie says he wants complementary skillsets, but then he's selected a squad without like-for-like replacements, and he's picked Jacobson and Savea to start then matched them with different skillsets. That makes it look like the skillset balance remains unknown. Maybe there are two separate horses-for-courses plans, one with Vaai/Parker, and one with Sititi/Lakai. But even Sititi and Lakai don't really play the same game.

It's also interesting that after Jacobson, the best ruck numbers - by quite a way - belong to Parker. That might point to Parker playing if Jacobson doesn't.

Landers mate.
Where's the team?

@Frank said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Landers mate.
Where's the team?

I had it locked and ready to go but the Jordie injury has thrown a spanner in the works.

I’ll post what it was going to be anyway, I’m sure it will spark some discussion.

9. Roigard
10. Love
11. Moorby
12. J. Barrett
13. Tupaea
14. Jordan
15. Dmac

Bench
21. Ratima
22. ALB
23. Clarke

All subject to change now due to the JB injury obviously.

@Landers92 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Frank said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Landers mate.
Where's the team?

I had it locked and ready to go but the Jordie injury has thrown a spanner in the works.

I’ll post what it was going to be anyway, I’m sure it will spark some discussion.

9. Roigard
10. Love
11. Moorby
12. J. Barrett
13. Tupaea
14. Jordan
15. Dmac

Bench
21. Ratima
22. ALB
23. Clarke

All subject to change now due to the JB injury obviously.

If Barrett is out, logic says we'll see a Tupaea/ALB midfield with Proctor on the bench.

But Rennie could throw a spanner in the works and keep Tupaea at 13 if he wants him to clock up more miles there. I'm not a fan of ALB at 12 so would rather this doesn't happen.

Or ALB could remain bench cover with Proctor coming in at 13.

And just want to say I'm very pleased that we've not seen Beauden Barrett at all during the series. Already a big tick for Rennie in my books.

It's a real bugger about that JB injury, I would have liked to see that backline.

One thing I would like to see tried if we are persisting with the 5-3 with a wing option on the bench, is using Clarke as a battering ram for the first 40, just get as many hard carries as he can at their inside backs.

@Landers92 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Frank said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Landers mate.
Where's the team?

I had it locked and ready to go but the Jordie injury has thrown a spanner in the works.

I’ll post what it was going to be anyway, I’m sure it will spark some discussion.

9. Roigard
10. Love
11. Moorby
12. J. Barrett
13. Tupaea
14. Jordan
15. Dmac

Bench
21. Ratima
22. ALB
23. Clarke

All subject to change now due to the JB injury obviously.

On the news last night it sounded like JB would be fine.

@Bovidae said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Paul Cully is predicting that Vaa'i will be named at 6.

Probably because a few other pundits have been talking it up. I’ve heard something quite different.

@ACT-Crusader said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Bovidae said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Paul Cully is predicting that Vaa'i will be named at 6.

Probably because a few other pundits have been talking it up. I’ve heard something quite different.

What have you heard?

@Landers92 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Frank said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Landers mate.
Where's the team?

I had it locked and ready to go but the Jordie injury has thrown a spanner in the works.

I’ll post what it was going to be anyway, I’m sure it will spark some discussion.

9. Roigard
10. Love
11. Moorby
12. J. Barrett
13. Tupaea
14. Jordan
15. Dmac

Bench
21. Ratima
22. ALB
23. Clarke

All subject to change now due to the JB injury obviously.

That lineup tells us two things: Tupaea is the clear favourite for the centre spot ahead of Proctor, although I’m not convinced about having Lienert-Brown there; and Beauden Barrett doesn’t appear likely to be part of the top 23 moving forward and may not make a regular-sized squad once Mo’unga returns. I’m fairly happy with both of those outcomes.

A back three, all with fullback credentials. The high ball really should be taken care of. Clark, who has made the high ball his forte, also in reserve to defuse opposition shenanigans. I like it.