NC: All Blacks v Ireland

@canefan said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

I am absolutely in favour of Moorby starting this week - I also don’t really see him as anything other than a stop gap.

But if he is a stop gap who wins us a Boks Tour then he will go down in ABs folklore

why is he a stop gap? Looks pretty useful to me.

Because I think Moorby is just the hot hand right now - probably not in a dissimilar mode to George Bridge a few years ago.

There is nothing wrong with that either, but also given his age, it is hard to see him being of use past 2027.

Moorby showed in his debut that he has potential to be explosive, something I can't recall Bridge being

You don't remember Bridge's early games for the ABs?

@nostrildamus only a year younger than Ben Smith in 2013. That worked out terribly

@jimmyb said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus only a year younger than Ben Smith in 2013. That worked out terribly

If Moorby could have half as long a fine career as Ben Smith did I'd be very satisfied!

@Frank said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Don't agree with the assessments on Moorby.
Low error rate, excellent option taker, good under the high ball, links well, can play fullback and wing.
Ideal for test footy.

Yep, just like Kahui (except the fullback part).

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Whether it is Jordie or Tupaea, Love or B Barrett, Parker or Segner, I wouldn’t expect the overall gameplan to shift that much.

I respectfully disagree on this point. I think the game plan would change a lot

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

I am absolutely in favour of Moorby starting this week - I also don’t really see him as anything other than a stop gap.

But if he is a stop gap who wins us a Boks Tour then he will go down in ABs folklore

why is he a stop gap? Looks pretty useful to me.

Because I think Moorby is just the hot hand right now - probably not in a dissimilar mode to George Bridge a few years ago.

Hard disagree.

Go back and watch his tries when he was near the try scoring record for Super and got selected. They were bog average- typically gettin gthe ball in space a few yards out from the line iwth no defenders. If you think I'm exaggerating, I think in 12-14 tries he beat maybe 3-4 defenders. Classic example of statistics being misleading.

For the ABs his ability to beat a man was unrivalled - but in the wrong direction. He just ran into ocntact over and over. It was pitiful.

@nzzp said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

I am absolutely in favour of Moorby starting this week - I also don’t really see him as anything other than a stop gap.

But if he is a stop gap who wins us a Boks Tour then he will go down in ABs folklore

why is he a stop gap? Looks pretty useful to me.

Because I think Moorby is just the hot hand right now - probably not in a dissimilar mode to George Bridge a few years ago.

Hard disagree.

Go back and watch his tries when he was near the try scoring record for Super and got selected. They were bog average- typically gettin gthe ball in space a few yards out from the line iwth no defenders. If you think I'm exaggerating, I think in 12-14 tries he beat maybe 3-4 defenders. Classic example of statistics being misleading.

For the ABs his ability to beat a man was unrivalled - but in the wrong direction. He just ran into ocntact over and over. It was pitiful.

There's a great team try highlight that pops up on the All Blacks' social media every now and then. It features everything you want to see: flowing rugby, offloads, accurate passing, players running into space and plenty of involvement from across the team. Except when the ball reaches Bridge, who stops in his tracks and goes to ground almost before the defender even touches him.

@nzzp said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

I am absolutely in favour of Moorby starting this week - I also don’t really see him as anything other than a stop gap.

But if he is a stop gap who wins us a Boks Tour then he will go down in ABs folklore

why is he a stop gap? Looks pretty useful to me.

Because I think Moorby is just the hot hand right now - probably not in a dissimilar mode to George Bridge a few years ago.

Hard disagree.

Go back and watch his tries when he was near the try scoring record for Super and got selected. They were bog average- typically gettin gthe ball in space a few yards out from the line iwth no defenders. If you think I'm exaggerating, I think in 12-14 tries he beat maybe 3-4 defenders. Classic example of statistics being misleading.

For the ABs his ability to beat a man was unrivalled - but in the wrong direction. He just ran into ocntact over and over. It was pitiful.

You could be talking about Doug Howlett.

@canefan just an opinion.I've been hearing since the French test that Vaai would play 6. If he does start 6 what's happening to Parker will he even make the African tour .

@mr-fish said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nzzp said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

I am absolutely in favour of Moorby starting this week - I also don’t really see him as anything other than a stop gap.

But if he is a stop gap who wins us a Boks Tour then he will go down in ABs folklore

why is he a stop gap? Looks pretty useful to me.

Because I think Moorby is just the hot hand right now - probably not in a dissimilar mode to George Bridge a few years ago.

Hard disagree.

Go back and watch his tries when he was near the try scoring record for Super and got selected. They were bog average- typically gettin gthe ball in space a few yards out from the line iwth no defenders. If you think I'm exaggerating, I think in 12-14 tries he beat maybe 3-4 defenders. Classic example of statistics being misleading.

For the ABs his ability to beat a man was unrivalled - but in the wrong direction. He just ran into ocntact over and over. It was pitiful.

You could be talking about Doug Howlett.

Rubbish. Howlett could beat and a man and scored trys against more teams than Japan.

@george33 said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@canefan just an opinion.I've been hearing since the French test that Vaai would play 6. If he does start 6 what's happening to Parker will he even make the African tour .

I see 3 options.

• Others outshine him at training/on the field.
• He isn't fit enough.
• He is carrying a niggle.

I suspect it isn't the first as we still don't see someone clearly holding in to that 6 position.

@jimmyb said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus only a year younger than Ben Smith in 2013. That worked out terribly

Smith debuted at 23.

Irish team named.

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@jimmyb said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus only a year younger than Ben Smith in 2013. That worked out terribly

If Moorby could have half as long a fine career as Ben Smith did I'd be very satisfied!

To have half as long a career he'd still be playing in our outside backs at 33, which would be pretty unusual...

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@jimmyb said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus only a year younger than Ben Smith in 2013. That worked out terribly

If Moorby could have half as long a fine career as Ben Smith did I'd be very satisfied!

To have half as long a career he'd still be playing in our outside backs at 33, which would be pretty unusual...

Much like Ben Smith then.

@Kirwan said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@mr-fish said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nzzp said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

I am absolutely in favour of Moorby starting this week - I also don’t really see him as anything other than a stop gap.

But if he is a stop gap who wins us a Boks Tour then he will go down in ABs folklore

why is he a stop gap? Looks pretty useful to me.

Because I think Moorby is just the hot hand right now - probably not in a dissimilar mode to George Bridge a few years ago.

Hard disagree.

Go back and watch his tries when he was near the try scoring record for Super and got selected. They were bog average- typically gettin gthe ball in space a few yards out from the line iwth no defenders. If you think I'm exaggerating, I think in 12-14 tries he beat maybe 3-4 defenders. Classic example of statistics being misleading.

For the ABs his ability to beat a man was unrivalled - but in the wrong direction. He just ran into ocntact over and over. It was pitiful.

You could be talking about Doug Howlett.

Rubbish. Howlett could beat and a man and scored trys against more teams than Japan.

Like Bridge's tries against Australia, South Africa and Ireland, you mean?

Howlett had great speed but go back and watch his try-scoring highlights - there are only half a dozen or so amongst them that someone like Bridge couldn't also finish.

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@jimmyb said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus only a year younger than Ben Smith in 2013. That worked out terribly

If Moorby could have half as long a fine career as Ben Smith did I'd be very satisfied!

To have half as long a career he'd still be playing in our outside backs at 33, which would be pretty unusual...

Much like Ben Smith then.

Yes, it would be. Care for a friendly wager?

15 - Hugo Keenan (UCD/Leinster)(47)
14 - Robert Baloucoune (Enniskillen/Ulster)(8)
13 - Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)(75)
12 - Stuart McCloskey (Bangor/Ulster)(30)
11 - Jimmy O’Brien (Naas/Leinster)(13)
10 - Sam Prendergast (Lansdowne/Leinster)(16)
9 - Jamison Gibson-Park (Leinster)(52)

1 - Tom O’Toole (Ballynahinch/Ulster)(23)
2 - Dan Sheehan (Lansdowne/Leinster)(40)(captain)
3 - Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)(87)
4 - Joe McCarthy (Dublin University/Leinster)(25)
5 - James Ryan (UCD/Leinster)(82)
6 - Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Munster)(72)
7 - Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)(80)
8 - Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)(61)

Replacements

16 - Ronan Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster)(50)
17 - Jeremy Loughman (Garryowen/Munster)(9)
18 - Thomas Clarkson (Blackrock College/Leinster)(15)
19 - Nick Timoney (Queen’s University/Ulster)(13)
20 - Sean Jansen (Connacht)(1)
21 - Craig Casey (Shannon/Munster)(29)
22 - Ciaran Frawley (UCD/Leinster)(14)
23 - Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht)(71)

11 Leinster players in the starting lineup and a few on the bench.

Apart from JGP, I think our backline is much better. Our front row too.
Loosies remain our issue.

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@jimmyb said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus only a year younger than Ben Smith in 2013. That worked out terribly

If Moorby could have half as long a fine career as Ben Smith did I'd be very satisfied!

To have half as long a career he'd still be playing in our outside backs at 33, which would be pretty unusual...

Much like Ben Smith then.

Yes, it would be. Care for a friendly wager?

No, thanks. I don't see Moorby making it past the World Cup next year either.

@pakman said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Irish team named.

And it’s still Wednesday over there.

Innovation.

@nzzp said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

I am absolutely in favour of Moorby starting this week - I also don’t really see him as anything other than a stop gap.

But if he is a stop gap who wins us a Boks Tour then he will go down in ABs folklore

why is he a stop gap? Looks pretty useful to me.

Because I think Moorby is just the hot hand right now - probably not in a dissimilar mode to George Bridge a few years ago.

Hard disagree.

Go back and watch his tries when he was near the try scoring record for Super and got selected. They were bog average- typically gettin gthe ball in space a few yards out from the line iwth no defenders. If you think I'm exaggerating, I think in 12-14 tries he beat maybe 3-4 defenders. Classic example of statistics being misleading.

For the ABs his ability to beat a man was unrivalled - but in the wrong direction. He just ran into ocntact over and over. It was pitiful.

Bridge possibly not the best example, but what I am really trying to say is Josh Moorby has been nothing more than a good Super Rugby player across his career, and then at 27, as a winger, he all of a sudden becomes this good?

It isn't meant as a critique, but the chances of this being anything other than a massive purple patch feel really low to me - and there isn't anything wrong with that. I'd far rather them play the hot hand and win now, then opt for someone like Clarke, who at the moment seems to have very little threat with ball in hand, or a project player (say a Hutchinson).

@reprobate said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Apart from JGP, I think our backline is much better.

Stuart McCloskey is class though.

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nzzp said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

I am absolutely in favour of Moorby starting this week - I also don’t really see him as anything other than a stop gap.

But if he is a stop gap who wins us a Boks Tour then he will go down in ABs folklore

why is he a stop gap? Looks pretty useful to me.

Because I think Moorby is just the hot hand right now - probably not in a dissimilar mode to George Bridge a few years ago.

Hard disagree.

Go back and watch his tries when he was near the try scoring record for Super and got selected. They were bog average- typically gettin gthe ball in space a few yards out from the line iwth no defenders. If you think I'm exaggerating, I think in 12-14 tries he beat maybe 3-4 defenders. Classic example of statistics being misleading.

For the ABs his ability to beat a man was unrivalled - but in the wrong direction. He just ran into ocntact over and over. It was pitiful.

Bridge possibly not the best example, but what I am really trying to say is Josh Moorby has been nothing more than a good Super Rugby player across his career, and then at 27, as a winger, he all of a sudden becomes this good?

It isn't meant as a critique, but the chances of this being anything other than a massive purple patch feel really low to me - and there isn't anything wrong with that. I'd far rather them play the hot hand and win now, then opt for someone like Clarke, who at the moment seems to have very little threat with ball in hand, or a project player (say a Hutchinson).

Some guys develop late. Who knows if his french adventure helped in any tangible way or not. He strikes me as having the potential for a Cory Jane style career, as opposed to a NMS career or even someone who depends on outright gas. If we look back after 2028 and he's given us a couple of excellent years of service I would be very pleased for us and for him

Easy win for the AB's.

@ACT-Crusader crazy to see a guy that couldn’t even get into the Otago NPC team and was middling around for Green Ireland now start for Ireland against the ABs. Good on him

@The-Irishman said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Easy win for the AB's.

We will play an aging rake, don’t have any world class locks, can’t even decide who our best 6, 7 or 8 are, have a rookie 10, a revolving door at centre and left wing. Add to that a new game plan that barely got us over the line against a France D side. Plus the daunting unbeaten record since forever at Eden Park. Take all that into account and add that Ireland have NZs greatest ever non-AB halfback.

Ireland by 10

@ACT-Crusader said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@The-Irishman said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Easy win for the AB's.

We will play an aging rake, don’t have any world class locks, can’t even decide who our best 6, 7 or 8 are, have a rookie 10, a revolving door at centre and left wing. Add to that a new game plan that barely got us over the line against a France D side. Plus the daunting unbeaten record since forever at Eden Park. Take all that into account and add that Ireland have NZs greatest ever non-AB halfback.

Ireland by 10

Add that we can't defend up the middle or our wide, have a captain selected mostly for "the feels", and have a geriatric on the bench

Ireland by 18

The reverse jinx game is starting early 🤟

@Mr-Fish said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Kirwan said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@mr-fish said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nzzp said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

I am absolutely in favour of Moorby starting this week - I also don’t really see him as anything other than a stop gap.

But if he is a stop gap who wins us a Boks Tour then he will go down in ABs folklore

why is he a stop gap? Looks pretty useful to me.

Because I think Moorby is just the hot hand right now - probably not in a dissimilar mode to George Bridge a few years ago.

Hard disagree.

Go back and watch his tries when he was near the try scoring record for Super and got selected. They were bog average- typically gettin gthe ball in space a few yards out from the line iwth no defenders. If you think I'm exaggerating, I think in 12-14 tries he beat maybe 3-4 defenders. Classic example of statistics being misleading.

For the ABs his ability to beat a man was unrivalled - but in the wrong direction. He just ran into ocntact over and over. It was pitiful.

You could be talking about Doug Howlett.

Rubbish. Howlett could beat and a man and scored trys against more teams than Japan.

Like Bridge's tries against Australia, South Africa and Ireland, you mean?

Howlett had great speed but go back and watch his try-scoring highlights - there are only half a dozen or so amongst them that someone like Bridge couldn't also finish.

Lol what are you talking about, I have never seen Bridge skin players on the outside the way Howlett used too. His pace was a weapon, Bridge didn't have a single weapon in his arsenal on attack, he was nothing more than a solid Super player.

@No-Quarter said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Mr-Fish said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Kirwan said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@mr-fish said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nzzp said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

I am absolutely in favour of Moorby starting this week - I also don’t really see him as anything other than a stop gap.

But if he is a stop gap who wins us a Boks Tour then he will go down in ABs folklore

why is he a stop gap? Looks pretty useful to me.

Because I think Moorby is just the hot hand right now - probably not in a dissimilar mode to George Bridge a few years ago.

Hard disagree.

Go back and watch his tries when he was near the try scoring record for Super and got selected. They were bog average- typically gettin gthe ball in space a few yards out from the line iwth no defenders. If you think I'm exaggerating, I think in 12-14 tries he beat maybe 3-4 defenders. Classic example of statistics being misleading.

For the ABs his ability to beat a man was unrivalled - but in the wrong direction. He just ran into ocntact over and over. It was pitiful.

You could be talking about Doug Howlett.

Rubbish. Howlett could beat and a man and scored trys against more teams than Japan.

Like Bridge's tries against Australia, South Africa and Ireland, you mean?

Howlett had great speed but go back and watch his try-scoring highlights - there are only half a dozen or so amongst them that someone like Bridge couldn't also finish.

Lol what are you talking about, I have never seen Bridge skin players on the outside the way Howlett used too. His pace was a weapon, Bridge didn't have a single weapon in his arsenal on attack, he was nothing more than a solid Super player.

Lots of players benefit from being in great teams. He was one of them

@ACT-Crusader said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@The-Irishman said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Easy win for the AB's.

We will play an aging rake, don’t have any world class locks, can’t even decide who our best 6, 7 or 8 are, have a rookie 10, a revolving door at centre and left wing. Add to that a new game plan that barely got us over the line against a France D side. Plus the daunting unbeaten record since forever at Eden Park. Take all that into account and add that Ireland have NZs greatest ever non-AB halfback.

Ireland by 10

@the-irishman

Add in a fullback prone to choking
A right-wing who should be fullback
Severe drop off to back up 9
Too many Crusaders
...

@No-Quarter said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Mr-Fish said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Kirwan said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@mr-fish said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nzzp said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@nostrildamus said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@frugby said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

I am absolutely in favour of Moorby starting this week - I also don’t really see him as anything other than a stop gap.

But if he is a stop gap who wins us a Boks Tour then he will go down in ABs folklore

why is he a stop gap? Looks pretty useful to me.

Because I think Moorby is just the hot hand right now - probably not in a dissimilar mode to George Bridge a few years ago.

Hard disagree.

Go back and watch his tries when he was near the try scoring record for Super and got selected. They were bog average- typically gettin gthe ball in space a few yards out from the line iwth no defenders. If you think I'm exaggerating, I think in 12-14 tries he beat maybe 3-4 defenders. Classic example of statistics being misleading.

For the ABs his ability to beat a man was unrivalled - but in the wrong direction. He just ran into ocntact over and over. It was pitiful.

You could be talking about Doug Howlett.

Rubbish. Howlett could beat and a man and scored trys against more teams than Japan.

Like Bridge's tries against Australia, South Africa and Ireland, you mean?

Howlett had great speed but go back and watch his try-scoring highlights - there are only half a dozen or so amongst them that someone like Bridge couldn't also finish.

Lol what are you talking about, I have never seen Bridge skin players on the outside the way Howlett used too. His pace was a weapon, Bridge didn't have a single weapon in his arsenal on attack, he was nothing more than a solid Super player.

That doesn't really counter what I said though?

While we wait on the team, any sppeculation on whether we will look too change our gameplan at all? Will we continue to look for quick ball and show patience in retention for multiple phases? Or will we look to play territory more, kick more (whether high balls or for corners)? One aspect that I thought was disappointing across both the first 2 tests was our mauling - we didn't seem to make a lot of ground in either game. With Ireland having arguably a better pack than both Italy and France F, it is hard to see that improving this week?

@voodoo personally i'd love to see both...at our decretion, take control, keep them homest woth fast ball and then take territory....back and forward, keep them guessing

@voodoo i don’t know about all that but I can almost guarantee that it will be a game of two halves with lots of credit to the boys.

@ACT-Crusader said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@voodoo i don’t know about all that but I can almost guarantee that it will be a game of two halves with lots of credit to the boys.

no mums in the kitchen putting on a feed afterwards?

All Blacks: 1. Ethan de Groot, 2. Codie Taylor, 3. Tyrel Lomax, 4. Josh Lord, 5. Patrick Tuipulotu, 6. Tupou Vaa'i, 7. Luke Jacobson, 8. Ardie Savea (c), 9. Cam Roigard, 10. Ruben Love, 11. Josh Moorby, 12. Jordie Barrett, 13. Quinn Tupaea, 14. Will Jordan, 15. Damian McKenzie.

Bench: 16. Asafo Aumua, 17. Xavier Numia, 18. Fletcher Newell, 19. Anton Segner, 20. Peter Lakai, 21. Cortez Ratima, 22. Anton Lienert-Brown, 23. Caleb Clarke.

Unavailable: Fehi Fineanganofo (shoulder), Leroy Carter (shoulder)

said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

@Frank said in NC: All Blacks v Ireland:

Landers mate.
Where's the team?

I had it locked and ready to go but the Jordie injury has thrown a spanner in the works.

I’ll post what it was going to be anyway, I’m sure it will spark some discussion.

9. Roigard
10. Love
11. Moorby
12. J. Barrett
13. Tupaea
14. Jordan
15. Dmac

Bench
21. Ratima
22. ALB
23. Clarke

All subject to change now due to the JB injury obviously.

On the money. JB still one to watch with a game time decision